Seeking suggestions on non persciption food for urinary support for Shadow.

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Sev

Sev

Member Since 2011
Shadow returned from the vets yesterday.
He was at the vets for the past 3 days hooked up on intravenous to flush out his bladder.
Have to keep him on Valium for the next couple weeks. Also have 7 Baytril injections to give him as I cant get pills down his throat to be able to use Clavamox.

Doc tried to foster off on me Hills prescription kibble feline C/D to deal with his urinary problems.
They are getting in Wet today. However looking at the ingredients does not inspire me.

Any suggestions on non prescription equivalent wet cat food that deals with Urinary Track problems would be appreciated.

Thanks guys. :)
 
When I was doing research on this during my cat's urinary health issues, I found that friskies special diet (turkey and giblets specifically) was good for urinary tract health. I don't know how true it is, though. I did a bit of research, but I was also adding the ACV to their food and that seemed to clear things up (anti jinx!). I feed mostly the special diet turkey and giblets with the occasional switch to beef and chicken. I add half a teaspoon of ACV to each food bowl and enough water to make it applesaucey.

Anyway, you might look into the special diet some to see if you can find anything about it. Hope this helps!
 
Thanks guys.
How's the carb count and suspicious list on the Friskies?

Rachel I am planning on adding ACV to the diet. I also picked up 500mg curcumin 95 to control inflammation.
I also have
UT Strength by Vetri-science
Urinary Tract Irritations by Natural Pet.
Urinary Tract Support by Vets + Best

Covers just about every from irritation to getting the Ph back to where it should be.
 
Rachel said:
When I was doing research on this during my cat's urinary health issues, I found that friskies special diet (turkey and giblets specifically) was good for urinary tract health. I don't know how true it is, though. I did a bit of research, but I was also adding the ACV to their food and that seemed to clear things up (anti jinx!). I feed mostly the special diet turkey and giblets with the occasional switch to beef and chicken. I add half a teaspoon of ACV to each food bowl and enough water to make it applesaucey.

Anyway, you might look into the special diet some to see if you can find anything about it. Hope this helps!
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Looked at the Friskies.
I have tried pate' style before. Turned his nose up at it.
 
Did you do it as a gradual food change, or just plop it down. Gradual introduction of new foods or textures may go better if you do 20-25% at a time.
 
BJM said:
Did you do it as a gradual food change, or just plop it down. Gradual introduction of new foods or textures may go better if you do 20-25% at a time.
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Actually I had Shado on Solid Gold Chicken in the beginning. Which is plain ground chicken with no additives. As soon as he got settled in he turned their nose up at it. I could not get him to eat anything such as Merrick's BG. Silky is the same way.
I think the problem is that I have lazy cats when it comes to licking there food up. Both of boys prefer a more solid food. Silky eats Taste of the Wild and Shadow is eating Wellness Signiture Select Shredded White Meat Chicken and Chicken Liver Entree.
I am having my suspicions on that particular food as Shadow puts on more weight than Silky.

I was also reading that were was a suspicion that Wellness causes UTI problems in Cats. Ever hear anything about that?
I am also reading conflicting opinions about Ash content in canned cat food.

Also this is an interesting read by Waltham.

http://www.waltham.com/document/nutrition/cat/cat-urinary- tract-health/276/
 
When reading Tanya's list base on DMA analysis what numbers should I be looking at for carbs as being acceptable including for cats that are not diabetic?
 
There are
3.5 calories per gram of protein
8.5 calories per gram of fat
3.5 calories per gram of carbohydrate
Multiply these by the respective grams of each source
Total the calories
Calculate the percent of calories from each source (calories from source / total calories * 100)
 
My urine issue prone kitty (Rusty) is on Weruva chicken brand can food.

They're actually designed to be a urine support food. I also ran it by my vet and she said all the values are good and to go ahead and feed him that. I've also seen some of the flavors listed on good food for diabetes lists.

I like it because Rusty actually likes most of the flavors and eats it. And he doesn't really like wet food. It's a constant battle but this has't been as much of a struggle. We did a mix a of the C/D diet and S/O, on dry food we still end up at the vet for urinary tract infections. The wet food he hated and wouldn't eat half the time. We've now been on the Weruva for almost 3 years and haven't yet had a infection or blockage, where as before we were at the vet every 6 months for one.

The only thing I don't like about their food is their fish brands can have bones in it. I was using BFF food for a little bit, which is kind of a cheaper Weruva (it's made by the same company) but that only has tuna based diets and in one can I found 10 bones! They were soft and broke apart easily but for a while I couldn't figure out why my kitty was barfing all the time. But him on Weruva chicken ones and he stopped barfing. I contacted the company and they pretty much said "Sorry this happens sometimes because we use real fish". I can't say anything about the Weruva branded fish products, but I've stayed away from them.

http://www.weruva.com/

And I've also heard about higher incidences of urinary tract issues with wellness foods too, you go read Amazon reviews and it's all over the comments.
 
ReiKitty said:
My urine issue prone kitty (Rusty) is on Weruva chicken brand can food.

They're actually designed to be a urine support food. I also ran it by my vet and she said all the values are good and to go ahead and feed him that. I've also seen some of the flavors listed on good food for diabetes lists.

I like it because Rusty actually likes most of the flavors and eats it. And he doesn't really like wet food. It's a constant battle but this has't been as much of a struggle. We did a mix a of the C/D diet and S/O, on dry food we still end up at the vet for urinary tract infections. The wet food he hated and wouldn't eat half the time. We've now been on the Weruva for almost 3 years and haven't yet had a infection or blockage, where as before we were at the vet every 6 months for one.

The only thing I don't like about their food is their fish brands can have bones in it. I was using BFF food for a little bit, which is kind of a cheaper Weruva (it's made by the same company) but that only has tuna based diets and in one can I found 10 bones! They were soft and broke apart easily but for a while I couldn't figure out why my kitty was barfing all the time. But him on Weruva chicken ones and he stopped barfing. I contacted the company and they pretty much said "Sorry this happens sometimes because we use real fish". I can't say anything about the Weruva branded fish products, but I've stayed away from them.

http://www.weruva.com/

And I've also heard about higher incidences of urinary tract issues with wellness foods too, you go read Amazon reviews and it's all over the comments.
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Funny you should mention Weruva. I have been composing a list of food with low carb, high protein, and with a phosphorous content below 200mg/100 Kcal and below 1.0 DMA.
I just finished going through Weruva when I decided to check in.
Unfortunately from what I see on Amazon some of the cases od Weruva bang in at 65.00 The 6 oz cans of Fowl Ball Chicken and Turkey and Chicken Frick A Zee are more reasonable.
 
ReiKitty said:
Those brands are the "cats in the kitchen" line of food which are a little more expensive. If you go with the "Because weluvya" line it's a little more affordable.
http://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Food-Lickin-Chicken-5-5-Ounce/dp/B001TM70V0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419709521&sr=8-1&keywords=weruva cat food

Usually I pay around 40-45 for a case of 24 5.5oz cans. I also have a local pet store that carries them for around what Amazon charges. And every once in a while Amazon will have up to ten dollar off a case.
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I am sniffing around for pricing.
Just came back from The Natural Pet Store in town. They have a nice selection of Weruva.
The Paw Lickin Chicken is pretty reasonably priced online. DMA - protein 77, Carb 4 and Phos .82.
I like the look of the 9 liver as well. Both of my UTI support chews have liver flavor and both cats beg for it. I am thinking Liver my be the key for happy feasting. :) Wont know till I try though.

They also said they stopped carrying Wellness because of the supposed urinary problems. One of the girls working there said her cat had urinary problems when feeding Wellness as well. No problems since switching to Merrick.
 
Well I was just cross referencing in Tanya's Chart
I have been feeding Wellness Sig. Select Shredded White Meat with Chicken Liver Entree' in Sauce.
DMA analysis.
0.93 - Phos., 44.53 - Protien, 0.48 - Salt, 15.95 - Fat, 32.89 - Carbs, 23.52

Good night Irene. Another strike against Wellness.
I think I discovered why he has a little extra weight on him.
Luckily I only have a few cans left and it should be enough to transition him to another food.
 
The minute the can says sauce or gravy, or the ingredients list legumes, grains, fruits, or tuberous vegetables, think carbs.
 
BJM said:
The minute the can says sauce or gravy, or the ingredients list legumes, grains, fruits, or tuberous vegetables, think carbs.
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Indeed. I am well aware of that. However the only things on the list of ingredients are tapioca starch and dried egg. No veggies, legumes or fruits.
 
He just urinated and got some on the bag in the cat box. There was blood in his urine.
 
BJM said:
Possible infection, stones, cystitis or other. Time for another vet visit.
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The vet had said there was no evidence of stones and that there could be blood in the urine. I have only had him back since Tues Dec 23.
Going to try and get a urine sample tomorrow. I am still giving him antibiotics and UTI support chews of various types. Luckily the Wellness I am feeding him is below 1.0 in phosphorus. So at least he is not getting an excess amount of it.
I really hope he recovers from this. Shadow is really a good cat.
 
I'm not sure why your Shadow ended up in the vet in the first place. But depending on why and the severity of what was wrong with him you might see blood for a little, and if the vet advised you he could have blood in his urine I wouldn't stress out to much. He could also be producing crystals still which would cause the blood. Just keep an eye on him and get that urine sample to the vet. I'm sure he'll make a full recovery. :)
 
ReiKitty said:
I'm not sure why your Shadow ended up in the vet in the first place. But depending on why and the severity of what was wrong with him you might see blood for a little, and if the vet advised you he could have blood in his urine I wouldn't stress out to much. He could also be producing crystals still which would cause the blood. Just keep an eye on him and get that urine sample to the vet. I'm sure he'll make a full recovery. :)
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I sure hope so ReiKitty.
His blockage was complete. The vet said it was impressive in size. It was composed of crystals, mucus and other materials.
I am supposed to get another urinalysis by the 5th.
I will check with the vet tomorrow. Another thing I am concerned about is his frequent visits to the box. It could just be an urge to urinate and nothing more. However no harm in bringing it up.
 
His bladder still could be irritated from the blockage and infection.
Some folks find giving glucosamine/chondritin helps for non-infectious cystitis.
 
BJM said:
His bladder still could be irritated from the blockage and infection.
Some folks find giving glucosamine/chondritin helps for non-infectious cystitis.
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He is currently getting Curcumin, Cranberry, Ascorbic Acid, Parsley, Corn Silk, Uva Rusi, Couch Grass Root, Slippery Elm, Butchers Broom, Marshmallow Root, Horsetail, D-Mannose, Glucasomine, Cranberry, Bromelain, Bacillus Coagulans, Lysine, and occasionally Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar.

Missing the Chondritin though.
 
Called the vets to see about having blood work done.
Apperently I missed that they had run a test while he was staying at the vets.
They said all levels are normal.
I'll be picking up a copy of that as well.
 
Sev said:
He is currently getting Curcumin, Cranberry, Ascorbic Acid, Parsley, Corn Silk, Uva Rusi, Couch Grass Root, Slippery Elm, Butchers Broom, Marshmallow Root, Horsetail, D-Mannose, Glucasomine, Cranberry, Bromelain, Bacillus Coagulans, Lysine, and occasionally Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar.

Missing the Chondritin though.
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Holy supplements! Could maybe some of those be causing problems? I know when you mix up supplements they can conflict with each other in humans, so I bet they can in cats.

And I'm not sure if Shadow has been a wet food only diet? For cats with crystals in their urine the wet food cures them because they pee so often they crystals never get a chance to form or there are only a couple formed before a new batch of urine comes along. Peeing lots is a good thing for crystal kitties. Rusty goes allll the time. I actually talked with a gal who said her kitty got diabetes and it pretty much cured his crystals because he was drinking water due to the diabetes so he was flushing out the crystal before they could cause harm!
 
ReiKitty said:
Holy supplements! Could maybe some of those be causing problems? I know when you mix up supplements they can conflict with each other in humans, so I bet they can in cats.

And I'm not sure if Shadow has been a wet food only diet? For cats with crystals in their urine the wet food cures them because they pee so often they crystals never get a chance to form or there are only a couple formed before a new batch of urine comes along. Peeing lots is a good thing for crystal kitties. Rusty goes allll the time. I actually talked with a gal who said her kitty got diabetes and it pretty much cured his crystals because he was drinking water due to the diabetes so he was flushing out the crystal before they could cause harm!
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He is on all wet right now. I have been moving him to Weruva. However I just found an organic cat food and just got off the phone with the dry matter analysis numbers. I will be posting that in a new thread.

Due so finance's I tried to split costs with Instinct Dry and Wellness wet. 6 months ago we switched to Wellness Core Original formula because it went from 41 a bag to 18 due to a close out at the pet supply store. This is where I believe the problem began. Shadow has been with us for a year. Prior to that he lived in the wild. The only thing that has changed for him is his diet.

I have also been hearing that Wellness wet is suspected of being a source UTI problems as well. So basically I doubled down on the bad if true.

The supplements are all in 2 different chews that I give in an alternating pattern. I give the Lysine, Turmeric and ACV separately.
So far as I have read there are appears to be no conflicts in what I am giving.
 
ReiKitty said:
Holy supplements! Could maybe some of those be causing problems? I know when you mix up supplements they can conflict with each other in humans, so I bet they can in cats.

And I'm not sure if Shadow has been a wet food only diet? For cats with crystals in their urine the wet food cures them because they pee so often they crystals never get a chance to form or there are only a couple formed before a new batch of urine comes along. Peeing lots is a good thing for crystal kitties. Rusty goes allll the time. I actually talked with a gal who said her kitty got diabetes and it pretty much cured his crystals because he was drinking water due to the diabetes so he was flushing out the crystal before they could cause harm!
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Ok.
Just got shot down on another forum. Looks like my combination contains a lot of diuretics.
Guess you cant always trust what they are selling as being good.
More research to do.
 
I didn't realize when I posted above that Shadow had a blockage. Cobb had one about 7 years ago that almost killed him. He was struggling and whimpering when we rushed him to the vet. If you're on a tight budget, I wholeheartedly recommend the Friskies Special Diet. I don't know anything about the supplements. We've never used any and Cobb has never had another problem.
 
Sev said:
Ok.
Just got shot down on another forum. Looks like my combination contains a lot of diuretics.
Guess you cant always trust what they are selling as being good.
More research to do.
Click to expand...

Well it's hard to say if the supplements hurt him or not. It just caught my eye as a lot as most cat owners I know only do glucosamine, l-lysine and maybe a probotic. Unfortunately we just don't know enough about how so many supplements interact with cats. And neutered male kitties are more prone to crystals in their urine anyways.

Personally I'd take him off those supplement treats and get him on the wet food only diet you decide on. I'd keep supplementing the l-lysine and glucosamine, both of which have been used for cats and I've never heard of causing issues with urinary tracts, and I've heard about glucosamine helping before too. Get him healthy and happy, and chance for his bladder to recover. Then maybe slowly reintroduce the other supplements after some research.

Reading some your other posts I think you might also be supplementing for poo issues? If so you may want to consider something simple like pumpkin mixed in with his wet food or a probotic paste for him to help his gut. I'm really not sure though, just a couple ideas to ponder!
 
ReiKitty said:
Well it's hard to say if the supplements hurt him or not. It just caught my eye as a lot as most cat owners I know only do glucosamine, l-lysine and maybe a probotic. Unfortunately we just don't know enough about how so many supplements interact with cats. And neutered male kitties are more prone to crystals in their urine anyways.

Personally I'd take him off those supplement treats and get him on the wet food only diet you decide on. I'd keep supplementing the l-lysine and glucosamine, both of which have been used for cats and I've never heard of causing issues with urinary tracts, and I've heard about glucosamine helping before too. Get him healthy and happy, and chance for his bladder to recover. Then maybe slowly reintroduce the other supplements after some research.

Reading some your other posts I think you might also be supplementing for poo issues? If so you may want to consider something simple like pumpkin mixed in with his wet food or a probotic paste for him to help his gut. I'm really not sure though, just a couple ideas to ponder!
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I am taking him of the chews for now.
Nope no stool issues. If anything the Baytril is keeping that softer than it should be.
It was also mentioned to me that Dr Peirson did an interview with Mercola and she uses the prescription C/D formula to get struvite crystals under control. Short term use only. I am not thrilled with the carb content.
I just bought a half a case and he consume better than half a can of it when I mixed it with the wellness I am attempting to ween him off of. For a $1.20 a 3oz can. It could be worse.
 
Suzanne & Cobb said:
I didn't realize when I posted above that Shadow had a blockage. Cobb had one about 7 years ago that almost killed him. He was struggling and whimpering when we rushed him to the vet. If you're on a tight budget, I wholeheartedly recommend the Friskies Special Diet. I don't know anything about the supplements. We've never used any and Cobb has never had another problem.
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Thanks Suzanne.
Going with the Hills C/D temporarily. I need to do some more research from better sources than what I was using.
 
Sev said:
Thanks Suzanne.
Going with the Hills C/D temporarily. I need to do some more research from better sources than what I was using.
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We initially did c/d as well. It turned out to be too high in carbs for Cobb.

I applaud you for doing so much research.
 
Here is Shadows blood work and Urinalysis.
The vet indicated that the hyperglycemia is secondary to stress.
ShadowBloodWorkIampII12-20-20140001_zpsdcfa29f7.jpg
ShadowBloodWorkIampII12-20-20140002_zpsb84c8079.jpg


ShadowUrinalisisIII12-19-2014_zps9232e7b4.png
 
Ph being higher than it should be means the urine is too alkaline. I was doing some research about acv last night (incomplete so I say this as something to consider/look into not as fact) which suggested that, unlike other vinegars acv has an alkalinity effect, ie it should only be used if the urinary issues are caused by the Ph being low (too acid) not if it's high.
 
You can use DL-Methionine to acidify the urine. However, it too acid oxalate crystals/stones can form. They can't be disolved by making the urine less acide
 
Larry and Kitties said:
You can use DL-Methionine to acidify the urine. However, it too acid oxalate crystals/stones can form. They can't be disolved by making the urine less acide
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It would only be temporary until diet could get everything under control.
I was informed in another group that high carb in food also contributes to high PH levels. I was unaware of this. More reason to find a good alternative for any high carb cat foods including MD foods.
 
Also I am looking to address his frequent urination. He is now going 3 times in a row. Not struggling mind you. But going from box to box urinating about the same amount each time.
How can I tell you may ask. :). The clumbs in the litter are about even.

I found this on the net. Is anybody familar with the product?
The ingredients are purported to be safe and helpful.

http://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/products/uti-free-cat-dog-urinary-tract-irritation.html
puti001_2.jpg


It has:
Berberis vulg 3X HPUS
Cantharis 6C HPUS
Staphysagris 6C HPUS
 
Sev said:
Also I am looking to address his frequent urination. He is now going 3 times in a row. Not struggling mind you. But going from box to box urinating about the same amount each time.
How can I tell you may ask. :). The clumbs in the litter are about even.
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Not sure about the rest, but this could be residual from the UTI. I know Mikey was doing this when he had his UTI. When does he finish the antibiotics?
 
KPassa said:
Not sure about the rest, but this could be residual from the UTI. I know Mikey was doing this when he had his UTI. When does he finish the antibiotics?
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Last shot of anti's was yesterday. 7 days to get out of his system.
I was told that the cauterization may be a source of the constant need to urinate. As the healing process continues it should decline. Hopefully this is correct.
On the positive side he is not incessantly licking himself any more.
 
Max blocked when he was about 5 and a vet pierced his bladder. He had surgery and I nearly lost him. He was on CD for about 7 years until he got pancreatitis. Of course he didn't have FD back then. Then my vet said to put him on canned food only. The only one he would eat was fancy feast. Soulistic, Weruva, Cats in the Kitchen are all made by the same company and are low in phosphorus but not all low in carbs. Some are quite high. Of course Max likes the high carb ones. They are also very low calorie.

Why valium? I don't want to scare you but when I was given it for Tiffany I was warned about the potential serious problem with it in a small percentage of allergic cats and decided I wouldn't take the risk.
Good luck finding the right food that your cat will eat.
 
BJM said:
I have read that glucosamine may be helpful with bladder irritation.
Click to expand...
I have been reading conflicting reports. Not harmful to give.
I had a chew I was giving him for UTI support. One of the ingredients can interact with the antibiotics. Not sure if Baytril is one of them. I desisted just in case.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Max blocked when he was about 5 and a vet pierced his bladder. He had surgery and I nearly lost him. He was on CD for about 7 years until he got pancreatitis. Of course he didn't have FD back then. Then my vet said to put him on canned food only. The only one he would eat was fancy feast. Soulistic, Weruva, Cats in the Kitchen are all made by the same company and are low in phosphorus but not all low in carbs. Some are quite high. Of course Max likes the high carb ones. They are also very low calorie.

Why valium? I don't want to scare you but when I was given it for Tiffany I was warned about the potential serious problem with it in a small percentage of allergic cats and decided I wouldn't take the risk.
Good luck finding the right food that your cat will eat.
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The vet wanted to give him Fluoxitine (Prozac) and mentioned it would probably be for life. That was not going fly.
 
As I was reading this thread, I saw the comments about food. When Bo was originally diagnosed with diabetes, I was feeding all four of my cats Hill's prescription CD diet (dry and canned) since one had urinary tract issues and stones. I had a cat before that had these so when Andy was diagnosed with UT problems I put them all on CD. I was scared there was something in the water or something I was doing that caused these. Anyway, I think all the CD contributed to Bo's initial diagnosis of diabetes in 2010. After about six weeks of insulin he was OTJ and stayed OTJ for four years. We started feeding canned wellness shortly after the original diagnosis so he did fine with that but Andy still had UT issues. A few months ago in the fall, I started giving wellness signature selects once a week as a treat. They loved it. Then shortly after that, Bo's glucose levels went up and we had to start insulin again. I found out later about the high level of carbs in the signature selects food. Made me sick that the signature selects probably awakened the diabetes again. He is still on insulin. Hopefully we will get OTJ again as soon as his levels are lower. If you read the label on the signature selects, it says it is a product of Thailand. I though all wellness was made in usa. With the issues thailand had before with poultry I would not have even started that if I had known where it was made. But once I saw the carbs in it, I was horrified. We are now on fancy feast classic. They didn't want to eat their regular wellness any longer. They all like the FF. And Andy is doing okay with his UT for now. I had never heard that wellness may have caused UT problems. I learn a lot on this forum and am willing to try anything to help my babies.
 
underdawg said:
As I was reading this thread, I saw the comments about food. When Bo was originally diagnosed with diabetes, I was feeding all four of my cats Hill's prescription CD diet (dry and canned) since one had urinary tract issues and stones. I had a cat before that had these so when Andy was diagnosed with UT problems I put them all on CD. I was scared there was something in the water or something I was doing that caused these. Anyway, I think all the CD contributed to Bo's initial diagnosis of diabetes in 2010. After about six weeks of insulin he was OTJ and stayed OTJ for four years. We started feeding canned wellness shortly after the original diagnosis so he did fine with that but Andy still had UT issues. A few months ago in the fall, I started giving wellness signature selects once a week as a treat. They loved it. Then shortly after that, Bo's glucose levels went up and we had to start insulin again. I found out later about the high level of carbs in the signature selects food. Made me sick that the signature selects probably awakened the diabetes again. He is still on insulin. Hopefully we will get OTJ again as soon as his levels are lower. If you read the label on the signature selects, it says it is a product of Thailand. I though all wellness was made in usa. With the issues thailand had before with poultry I would not have even started that if I had known where it was made. But once I saw the carbs in it, I was horrified. We are now on fancy feast classic. They didn't want to eat their regular wellness any longer. They all like the FF. And Andy is doing okay with his UT for now. I had never heard that wellness may have caused UT problems. I learn a lot on this forum and am willing to try anything to help my babies.
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I had my suspicions about the Signature Selects being of higher carb. However when I cross referenced on Tanya's List my eyes bulged. Wellness is completely of my list of cat foods.
 
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