Zobaline increasing blood glucose?

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Liamcuff1

Liamcuff1

Member Since 2020
First time poster. Thanks for having me! I worry all day about Bodhi, the 12 year old tomcat diabetic. Recently I have his numbers below 300 most of the day (goes up after he eats then down sharply 2 hours later (nadir at around 100). I know that this has been asked a few times but does Zobaline increase BG? The last curve I gave him while on it increased numbers by over 100, and then I took him off for two days and they went back to pre Zobaline numbers. I WANT to use it to heal his neuropathy. Please advise! Thanks !
 
Hello and welcome.

We've had many cats on Zobaline, without in increasing blood sugar. Perhaps if you can let us see your blood sugar test numbers, we can help you find another reason his numbers are going up. It's possible what you were seeing is something we call a bounce. This definition is from the New to the Group Sticky Note.
Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
Make sure you read all those sticky notes too. If you'd like with figuring out dosing, we use a common spreadsheet format here. Here are the instructions for the spreadsheet.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions:
Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome.

We've had many cats on Zobaline, without in increasing blood sugar. Perhaps if you can let us see your blood sugar test numbers, we can help you find another reason his numbers are going up. It's possible what you were seeing is something we call a bounce. This definition is from the New to the Group Sticky Note.
Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
Make sure you read all those sticky notes too. If you'd like with figuring out dosing, we use a common spreadsheet format here. Here are the instructions for the spreadsheet.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions:
Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid
Click to expand...
Thanks ! He is also on Hills MD and I’m considering moving him off since everyone here seems to hate it, but his clinical signs are going away. However even while controlled he now only pees on pee lads and rarely in litter.. it’s annoying. My mom recommends getting rid of them but I think he prefers them bc his legs hurt... any input? Thanks again!
 
Hi there and welcome!! I’m moving your post to the Main Health Forum as we ask all new members to start there. Once you get a spreadsheet and some of the other basics set up, then you can post back here in this forum.

Please be sure you read this post.

We’re glad to have you in the FDMB!
 
M
Wendy&Neko said:
Is that MD wet or dry? Getting him in good blood sugar numbers is also key to helping neuropathy.
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mostly wet with a drop of dry, but much less than I was giving him.... also I just did his 6th glucose test for a 12 hour curve and it was at 240 at 6pm and then 508 at 8pm... is that maybe wrong ? How is that possible ? He eats at 830 and gets the shot at 915am. From 8am to 8pm, every 2 hours: 230,225,90,128,340,508. Takes Humulim N
 
That 508 is indeed possible. Humulin doesn't last very long in cats. It doesn't last the full 12 hours. Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc are much better insulins in cats.
 
The dose took him quite low - 90. For a cat whose body is used to higher numbers, suddenly seeing a safe but unfamiliar lower number can trigger the body's counterregulatory responses to bring the number back up to a level it has become more familiar with. Sometimes the counter response overdoes things and that's when a cat can 'bounce' into higher numbers. Bounces are temporary.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
The dose took him quite low - 90. For a cat whose body is used to higher numbers, suddenly seeing a safe but unfamiliar lower number can trigger the body's counterregulatory responses to bring the number back up to a level it has become more familiar with. Sometimes the counter response overdoes things and that's when a cat can 'bounce' into higher numbers. Bounces are temporary.


Mogs
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Thanks. Hopefully a switch to a Lantus could help... If he is only high for a few hours due to a temporary bounce, and there are no clinical symptoms (obviously already had neuropathy) is this ok, and is he considered regulated?
 
Many vets consider a cat to be well-regulated if a cat's BG remains above the hypo threshold but under the renal threshold (the level at which glucose spills over into the urine). That's about 250mg/dL but it varies a bit from cat to cat (as measured on a veterinary glucometer ). However, that often involves the cat 'running high' and better control is possible.

By using an appropriate insulin, low carb wet diet, and sufficient testing for safety it is possible to regulate a cat more tightly, keeping its BG pretty much in the normal range. Lantus is such an insulin.

As Wendy mentions above, Humulin N does not have adequate duration in cats. That's why you see numbers rising significantly later in the cycle. Lantus lasts longer in cats and typically gives better BG control.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
As Wendy mentions above, Humulin N does not have adequate duration in cats.
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I can testify to this personally. Back when Trouble was alive thats the only insulin our vet used. It was a wild ride. More wild than a more suitable insulin would have been. We DID achieve remission but I totally thought I 'd lost my mind for a few days there.:rolleyes:
jeanne
 
We
Critter Mom said:
Quite.

I remember following Cathie and Shaak Ti when they first joined the forum. Talk about a rollercoaster! :nailbiting:


Mogs
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W
Critter Mom said:
Many vets consider a cat to be well-regulated if a cat's BG remains above the hypo threshold but under the renal threshold (the level at which glucose spills over into the urine). That's about 250mg/dL but it varies a bit from cat to cat (as measured on a veterinary glucometer ). However, that often involves the cat 'running high' and better control is possible.

By using an appropriate insulin, low carb wet diet, and sufficient testing for safety it is possible to regulate a cat more tightly, keeping its BG pretty much in the normal range. Lantus is such an insulin.

As Wendy mentions above, Humulin N does not have adequate duration in cats. That's why you see numbers rising significantly later in the cycle. Lantus lasts longer in cats and typically gives better BG control.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

I spoke with the Vet and were switching to Lantus and I’ll only feed him the hills md wet food since I have so much of it already . No more dry food
 
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