? Zen - 5/25 - PMPS 92 | +7 77 | +2 60

[Emily R]

Yesterday's thread

Zen looks pretty darned good today. He staged a hunger strike before bed (didn't like the fake tuna juice from the pet store; will use the real thing from now on!) and so we had to give him 2 tsp Savory Selects (MC) before bed. It put him in a good place overnight, until right around 4:30am (PM+9.5) when he started to dip from an empty stomach, so we opened his AM can of LC early and got him to eat a little early. He's been snacking all day (we still have to bring the food to him, but hopefully he'll be motivated to walk to the bowl again soon) and so he's maintained, and we're about to shoot in about an hour and a half. I feel like, between the DM pate and the Savory Selects when it's needed, we've finally got things in a decent place. I guess my question is, where do we go from here?

• We still give him food almost hourly by sticking it under his face (it's often the only way to get him to eat it). We're pretty much tethered to him, and I'm worried about how sustainable that is long-term. He's proven that he *can* go to the food bowl and eat when he wants to overnight, but he doesn't really do it during the day (or really that much at night, frankly)... I think that's largely because we've been taking the initiative to get him to eat for the last couple of months.
• If we go to bed with green (bedtime is usually 4-5 hours before nadir) we usually give him about 2 tsp of Savory Selects (MC) to keep him from crashing overnight.

I'm kind of hesitant to just let him free-feed, but I feel like we're going to have to do it at some point because I think we might also be intervening in the cycle too much when we see him on a downward trend... curious everyone's thoughts.

Thanks, all! Happy Tuesday!

 

[Emily R]

We shot green tonight, and he's staying pretty low. We just scanned and got 60 at +2, and +2 is usually onset for him. We gave him 2 tsp of Savory Selects (MC) to try to get out in front of a crash, but I'm really thinking a reduction is in order tomorrow morning. I think tonight's going to have to be another "wake up and scan him hourly" kind of night.

 

[Margaret and Pearl (GA)]

Hi Emily,

I'm not sure what you mean about intervening too much on a downward trend - but feeding the curve is a good thing I find. I do it with Pearl with a lot of success. When she starts going a little low, definitely time for some food. However, you will find that if you need to do this too much in a cycle to keep him afloat, it may be a signal that a reduction is coming and he wants off the dose. I try to keep on the same schedule for feeding Pearl, meaning she gets the same amount of food in a given cycle every single day. I might change the spacing of it a little depending on how her numbers are. But if you are having to pull out the MC too much (more than usual), it is a signal that reduction is on the way.

Does this make sense and help? Hope so.

PS - I don't free feed Pearl either. I give her a little bit at various times. Many of us do that. It helps us control the numbers a bit better AND it helps kitty from over eating and then not being hungry if a number is too low and he neeeeds to eat. I DO however free feed during the night time hours or when I won't be home. Some people here use automatic feeders with a lot of success if you don't want to free feed.

 

[Emily R]

Thank you, @Margaret (and Pearl)! That's exactly what we're doing with Zen re: giving food when he gets low and keeping the same feeding schedule in a given cycle. It seems like we have to intervene with MC at least once a cycle nowadays. Just re-tested and he's at 67, so I suspect the MC is taking effect soon, but it seems so precarious to be at 60 at onset, and especially when it's the overnight cycle. Definitely going to be keeping a close eye on him over the course of the hour. My gut tells me it's time to try him on .75U tomorrow morning, but I'm curious what you and the other veterans think. Am I just being a big weenie about it? Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Hi Emily!

Zen is doing super well for being so early in his sugar cat journey! If you're following TR, the reduction point is 50. It's recommended to stick to that number, as that will keep Zen in those healing greens longest, so unless he goes there tonight or you're finding it very hard to keep him in safe numbers and you're feeding him a lot (@Margaret (and Pearl) hit this on the nail above), you'd keep the dose at 1 unit tomorrow morning. Hopefully @Wendy&Neko would be by soon to confirm. In terms of feeding low numbers, I'd stick to feeding him the DM selects which is medium carb only when he dips below 60, and high carb foods when he's below 50. This is to keep him surfing and not bump the numbers up too much in case he bounces. We want to keep Zen as flat as possible, and the MC can work against that if fed at too high of a number.

If you're home and you can have timed feedings of small amounts of food as Margaret also suggests, this is the best way to keep him even. I feed Ruby at preshot time, and then two more meals at two or three hour intervals, with a late cycle snack (but only now since she is off insulin, not recommended to feed your cat after +6 if it's still on insulin). I would divide her daily quotient of 2.5 cans into 6 portions and feed them to her spaced out. If Ruby was dropping low at +2, I'd pull out a higher carb LC, like 7-9%, to prevent a dive.

You're doing great!

 

[Emily R]

Thank you, @PerfumedCatMom! Okay, we'll wait for @Wendy&Neko to sound off, bur for now, the plan is to stick to 1U tomorrow morning, but we'll wait for a reading of 60 to give the MC and 50 for HC. We can't really give him anything on a timed feeder because his sister will eat his food. (Not because she particularly wants it, but more because she wants to deprive him of it. )

Thank you all so so so much! Gosh, it would be so wonderful to get him OTJ. I don't want to get my hopes up, but man would it be a relief. My husband and I are so grateful-- we couldn't do this without you all. Fingers crossed!

 

[Emily R]

MC is kicking in. 77!

 

[Emily R]

Also, for fun: both the babes being transported by a third babe (my husband) after the workday was finished today! (We both work from home right now-- couldn't be a better time!) Zen has to wear a shirt to keep from pulling his Freestyle Libre off with his teeth.

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Also, for fun: both the babes being transported by a third babe (my husband) after the workday was finished today! (We both work from home right now-- couldn't be a better time!) Zen has to wear a shirt to keep from pulling his Freestyle Libre off with his teeth.

Awww, cute!

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Gosh, it would be so wonderful to get him OTJ. I don't want to get my hopes up, but man would it be a relief.

This is what we all want; it's why we joined this forum. Sometimes kitties go racing down the dosing ladder early on because of a change from dry food to wet or from high carb to low, sometimes they take many months like Ruby (and we're on an unofficial no insulin trial because she had a severe tummy flare, not OTJ yet!), and sometimes it takes a few years. Never say never. Seems like you're rolling with the whole process which is half the battle. Keep up the positive vibes and the good momentum!

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Oh, one more thing: I have microchip feeders from Sure Feed for my two kitties. Ruby used to bully Olive a lot regarding food and it caused a lot of problems: Ruby got chubby and Olive stayed underweight. When Ruby got her diabetes diagnosis I bought the feeders to keep their food separate as I was still feeding Olive kibble at the time and I needed to keep Ruby away from it. It was a bit bumpy at the beginning to get them used to it but now there's no food competition and they are so much more relaxed about eating. They know they can leave food in the bowl and walk away without the other one eating it. Now they both eat the same food but I can control their portions so that Ruby who is a bigger cat gets 6 ounces of food whereas Olive gets 4 ounces per day. This means I can also leave food for them in their bowls and know that only the cat it's intended for is eating it. It's a total gamechanger for a multicat household. You may want to look into it.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Do you ever check the lower Libre numbers with a human meter? I've heard it's good practice. Below 50 on a human meter is the reduction point with TR. If you want, we have people who can help you modify the spreadsheet so that the lime greens don't appear until under 50.