Yoyo Update

[Lana & Yoyo]

I have not posted in quite a while, so I think it is time for an update. After I finally figured out that Yoyo had a severe flea allergy, I thought, "If I can just get this allergy under control, Yoyo will begin to get wonderful, predictable numbers and I will eventually get him OTJ.

Well, I have now come to believe that there is no such thing as a cat with an allergy. If a cat has an allergy, then he's got a bundle of them lurking back in the shadows. As those of you who have been on this ISG a long time know, I took Yoyo to an acupuncturist for the flea allergy and her recommendation to use Capstar every other day for the fleas has been astoundingly successful. With the Capstar, acupuncture treatments, herbal medicines, and dental work, his insulin requirements have dropped 30%. I have not been back for the acupuncture boosters. She charges $100/treatment and we had a nasty disagreement over home BG testing. (An animal acupuncturist in Texas must have a veterinary license.) I am not planning on going back so I am going to have to resolve this on my own.

During the time that Yoyo's BG was dropping, I did a lot of dose-hopping because the falling BG made me nervous, but after he seemed to stabilize somewhere between 0.8 to fat 1.0 units, I wanted to work on getting his numbers looking better. I realized he did have some food allergies, specifically, I thought wheat gluten was a problem, so I stopped giving him Fancy Feast chunky and roasted varieties. Yoyo was immensely better but he still had problems -- I would still see him scratching and he would throw up from time to time. Allergy plays havoc with blood sugar and I was still not able to get his blood sugar sufficiently under control. I started having hydration problems with him. He stopped eating, was lethargic, stayed in the bathroom with his little paws hugging the base of the toilet. I took him to the vet. She gave him fluids and me some lactated ringers to administer at home. He got worse after I started giving him Chicken of the Sea Salmon and Starkist Tuna in packets for BG treats and I had a lot problems with him throwing up. Both contain soy and that is apparantly a feline allergen so I stopped that. I was still having trouble getting his blood sugar down. I had changed from Levemir back to Lantus earlier in the year when Yoyo would walk around cying on Levemir if his BG was high. With the hydration issue, I started having problems with Lantus. After some research, I decided to go back to Levemir. Lantus is acidic. It is injected into the subcutaneous tissue which has a neutral pH. This difference causes Lantus to become available to the cat. However, with dehydration, the subcutaneous tissue can become alkaline. I began to think that Yoyo was not able to utilize the insulin I was giving him. I started using the old Lev pen I had in the fridge and the improvement was immediate. Then I stopped getting quite so good results from the Lev. I asked the vet for a script for Lev. She thought the Lantus had just gone bad, but she gave me scripts for both. I think the 4 month old vial of Lantus was fine. I think the problem at this point with the Lev was allergies (concluded after paying $243 for new Lev pens while I still had insulin in the old pen).

I decided I would have to keep a food record or I would never get this stuff figured out so Yoyo's Food Record is in my signature (I hope it is visible). It looks to me like one of the premiums was a problem. Maybe rabbit or duck? Also I keep EVO low-carb dry out all the time. Yoyo only occasionally snacks on it. My other cat is the "dry" addict. The ingredients are listed at http://www.naturapet.com/products/1441 and I don't see anything off-hand that might pose a problem. I do have to admit to giving him 7 or 8 of his beloved Temptations from time to time and they do have wheat flour in them. Anyway, over the past couple of days, I've seen an improve after limiting him to mostly FF Classics, so I think I will add beef back. I don't think it is a problem, but I will see for sure.

So, Yoyo is pretty much limited to Fancy Feast Classics right now. This is a cat that likes variety and gets tired of everything. For a creature whose ancestors evolved in the barren Sahara desert on lizards, mice, and an occasional bird, Yoyo has a lot of nerve! Treats are a real problem. He won't touch dehydrated stuff anymore. I am now realizing that much of the human foods that I had been using for treats have a lot of additives.

Various websites that have information on allergens have different advice on how long it takes to get allergens out of the system. Some sites say 3 months. I think I see some effect, good or bad, in about 3 days but I don't really know how long it takes for all symptoms to clear up. Any input would be helpful.

Pamela, I especially want to thank you for all the food allergy information you gave me earlier in the year. I did not really think that Yoyo had any food allergies back then, but I removed those foods from his diet as you recommended. So I got an education of sorts back then on what might be potential feline allergens. Alas, once I got his fleas under control, I started added those foods back --- and saw scratching and throwing up as a result.

Comments and suggestion vigorously solicited.

Lana

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Food allergens can cause skin irritation - scratching, etc - as well as vomiting and diarrhea. It would be very helpful if you could cut out all foods you think he may be allergic to and try and get him stable for a couple of weeks, then add one suspicious food in at a time. I think it's one a week. And note in the log if he has symptoms from it. The Temptations could be a factor if he is very sensitive to wheat.

I am interested in your post because Jeddie appears to have had a reaction to a food ingredient. It was either dried egg product or brewer's yeast. I eliminated the food that contained those two ingredients and he improve greatly. Went from very stinky liquid diarrhea to solid, normal stools. He still has itching and is biting at his fur in places. I keep checking for fleas with a flea comb, so far nothing. They are indoor cats, so I doubt they have fleas, although they all got them last summer (2010) when I took them to the house in MI that had fleas in the carpet. His BG is also erratic, so I was interested that you said allergies play havoc with BGs.

My vet wondered if Jeddie had IBD and I would not rule that out, but I also won't be having biopsies done to confirm or deny it. Instead I am trying to eliminate suspect foods (brands, flavors) and support his digestive tract with FlortiFlora added to his food. Currently I mix Wellness or Evo canned with Sophisticat (from PetSmart) canned. I used to use Friskies, but it isn't any better than Sophisitcat and is more expensive. Plus it has menadione sodium bisulfite complex, a synthetic Vit K that is suspected of being a carcinogen and Sophisicat doesn't.

Remember too that he could be having a reaction to cleaning products, laundry detergent residue (on blankets he sleeps on) and so on. So think about his whole environment as being a possible contributor to his problems.

As for treats, I buy chicken breast (boneless/skinless), cut it up into chunks and boil it in plain water for about 5 mins. Then I freeze it, including some of the broth, in the smallest plastic containers I have (most are 4 ozs). All of my cats love it and it has no additives in it. Of course, to be 100% sure of that, you would have to get organic chicken. Don't get Target frozen chicken breast, they have stuff injected into them that adds a lot of sodium and other things.

Yoyo's SS looks good. His dose seems good, maybe just a tad high. You really don't want to see regular nadirs below 60 and anything in the 40s and 300s is going to cause rebound, even if it is just a little bit. I think some of those 300s might have been rebound. So, the .8u or maybe .75u or even .6u is probably where he needs to be.

 

[Lana & Yoyo]

It would be very helpful if you could cut out all foods you think he may be allergic to and try and get him stable for a couple of weeks, then add one suspicious food in at a time. I think it's one a week.

I think that I have eliminated everything he is allergic to, but he is still scratching occasionally. I don't know for sure if it is from a previous allergen that has not cleared his system or he is having problems with something I am still feeding him right now. If he should be free of an allergen in a week, then something he is currently getting might be a problem. Since Oct 5, he has been getting FF Classics, FF Kitten, & FF Fish & Shrimp Flaked. I would like to see him quit scratching completely, then I could add something and if he had no problems in a week, I could assume that it was okay. If I have to limit him to boiled chicken for a month to start this process, he is going to be one miserably unhappy cat and he will make sure the world knows it!

Jeddie appears to have had a reaction to a food ingredient. . . . so I was interested that you said allergies play havoc with BGs.

Allergens cause the body to release inflammation causing chemicals. I think allergies were the cause of Yoyo relapsing after two years OTJ.

Remember too that he could be having a reaction to cleaning products

This is what is making me crazy. Would that there was a blood test that would come back: Allergens are wheat gluten, Tide, soy, wool . . .

As for treats, I buy chicken breast (boneless/skinless), cut it up into chunks and boil it in plain water for about 5 mins.

I have been thinking about doing that for his regular meals, but for treats, it would really be nice to have something always on hand that I could grab, but the selections are getting small.

Yoyo's SS looks good. His dose seems good, maybe just a tad high. You really don't want to see regular nadirs below 60 and anything in the 40s and 300s is going to cause rebound, even if it is just a little bit. I think some of those 300s might have been rebound. So, the .8u or maybe .75u or even .6u is probably where he needs to be.

This is a real conundrum. I think I have to be very careful with both his pre-shot numbers and his nadirs. I think that the 265 I got last night was a small bounce off yesterday's nadir. I think it was a bounce rather than a rebound?? that his body had not seen a nadir in that neighborhood in a month and was not used to it. Today, Yoyo is drinking out of the toilet and hovering over the water dish. Most cats would not be having a hydration problem from a 265 (although it probably went a little higher in a post shot rise). If he has a blue PMPS today, it will be the first time since he was re-diagnosed in May 2010 that he has had three straight days mostly in the greens and blues. If I can keep him there for awhile, then I will have more confidence in reducing his dose to see if I can keep his pre-shots in the blues.

Lana

 

[MommaOfMuse]

I feel so bad for you and Yoyo, because while thankfully my allergy ridden guy isn't a diabetic nor is he a cat...But we are going through this right now with our drooler, we had to take away all his treats except just plain boiled chicken. We also had to switch his food to a novel protein source, right now he is going between vension, rabbit and buffalo....not sure if you could try those with Yoyo or not, but if you can it might be something to try that would still allow him to have some variety in his diet. It might mean making his food and feeding him raw until you can figure out what he is and isn't allergic too.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

[Lana & Yoyo]

we are going through this right now with our drooler, we had to take away all his treats except just plain boiled chicken. We also had to switch his food to a novel protein source, right now he is going between vension, rabbit and buffalo....not sure if you could try those with Yoyo or not, but if you can it might be something to try that would still allow him to have some variety in his diet.

I am just going to have to bite the bullet and do it. Yoyo threw up in the middle of the night last night -- on a quilt -- you know, handmade quilt that can not go in the washing machine. Either EVO or Merrick has venison. I've seen it somewhere. I have some Nature's Variety raw rabbit. I have never seen buffalo for cats. That first week on the Food Chart, I was feeding a lot of premiums. I was seeing a lot of allergic symptoms so I eliminated the premiums. I don't know. Hope rabbit is not a problem. This morning I gave him EVO Turkey & Chicken.

If he has a blue PMPS today, it will be the first time since he was re-diagnosed in May 2010 that he has had three straight days mostly in the greens and blues.

Well, that wish was "Pie in the Sky." Yoyo had a 285 last night. I know I should think that 285 is not a bad number compared to the pink or red number I would have gotten a few weeks ago. . .but . . .well, I guess, I will just have to say that Yoyo has never had three days in a row primarily in greens and blues.

Kind of feeling down and frustrated the morning.

Lana

 

[BJM]

Something I once read for food allergies in humans suggested rotating through the protein (or other allergen) families and never do 2 days in a row of the same source.

Depending on what you have observed about his reactions, some of the protein families are:
beef
lamb, goat (same family)
pork
rabbit
venison
buffalo (not sure how different this is from beef)
ostrich, turkey, chicken, other fowl

If you have a good butcher shop nearby - one that can gets unusual meats - you may be able to make some home diets that rotate through the protein families.

 

[pamela and tigger]

I thnk one of the best sites for addressing feline allergies is written by Dr. Jean Hofve of littlebigcat.com.

Since having an allergy to food or to something in the environment depresses the immune system (which diabetes also does), supplementing is important. Here Dr. Hofve discusses some that she recommends:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/food-allergies-in-cats/

Upon her recommendation a number of years ago, we started Tigger on the Biosuperfood for pets. We added a little at a time and eventually worked him up to one capsule in the AM and one in the PM. He used to itch at sores on his neck, but hasn't had them in years. Of course, feeding the raw food has helped in that regard too.

You might try ordering some duck and rabbit from Feline's Pride (link in my sig). If you contact them and ask for smaller sample packs they are usually very helpful and accommodating.

Oh, and here is one more article from Dr. Hofve that has a lot of good info in it regarding the immune system (this one is on cancer prevention but addresses a lot of issues):

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/cancer-prevention-and-treatment/

I hope this helps. I remember how frustrated I was when Tigger was so miserable with the itching.

(P.S. I PM'd you the other day but I see now it didn't go through....odd).

Edited to add - peanut butter for a treat? I have never heard of that! :smile:

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

That was an interesting article, Pamela. Which Biosuperfood do you use? I was confused on the products on the linked page. It seemed like they were all for humans although they had testimonials about pets. I wonder if Jeddie could benefit from this to stop his itching and biting on his skin and fur?

 

[Lana & Yoyo]

I once read for food allergies in humans suggested rotating through the protein (or other allergen) families and never do 2 days in a row of the same source.

Well, BJ, that would definitely be Yoyo's choice of a plan, "variety" is his middle name, but I am wondering how I would figure out what caused the allergy if I changed the food every two days, although that plan might help to mitigate the severity of the reaction.

Pamela, that website you gave me says the most common allergens are "chicken, fish and corn, beef, wheat, and dairy products." I have never seen chicken listed as a common allergen. That is exactly what I have been trying to feed the most of. It also says to choose "novel" proteins and feed the same thing for 2 months! BJ suggested ostrich - no idea where I would get that - and goat. Mexican meat markets should carry goat. I could cook and freeze that.

I checked out Feline's Pride and Nature's Variety for the raw offerings. I was surprised to see that Nature's Variety has Bison and Venison --- my neighborhood store doesn't carry it, although I imagine they could get it for me.

peanut butter for a treat? I have never heard of that!

Well, I went to my uncle's house. I took Beechnut baby food with me for BG treats. Yoyo went into one of his finicky spells and he would not eat it. I had absolutely nothing else to give him. I had been having trouble with additives in grocery store items and the nearest pet food store was 35 miles away. On the third day of offering him baby food and having him decline it, I still had him up on the kitchen counter for the BG test and I happened to spy a jar of peanut butter. I got about 1/4 tsp and offered it to him and he ate it with relish. I just have my fingers crossed that he is not allergic to peanuts.

Lana

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Yep I have two civies that are allergic to chicken, but suprisingly not to turkey, duck or goose and another one that is allergic to fish, but not seafood...makes feeding my crew a real challenge to find food that fits everyone's dietary needs... :roll:

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

[KSAkitties]

My Major is allergic to chicken, turkey, beef and lamb among many other things. Chicken, turkey and beef are quite common allergents for cats according to Dr. Deva Khalsa who treated Major for his allergy problems. Rabbit and pork are about the only proteins he can take. He threw up on venison.

I also consulted Dr. Newkirk (for a second opinion) at Margate Vet Hosital for Major's allergy problems. Both doctors came back with the same results although using somewhat different methods. Dr. Khalsa uses fur sample. Dr. Newkirk uses muscle testing.

Dr. Khalsa also told me that cats that are white or predominately white have a higher probability of having immune related health issues, i.e. allergy. My Major is mostly white. My Chance who is all white/cream colourd has not shown any food allergy issues but has sever gum infection/gingervitise since age one. He is two and half now.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

That is interesting about white or mostly white being more prone to allergies, since mine that have allergies are Onyx who jet black, not a white hair on him, he's allergic to all grains, the one that is allergic to fish, is a siamese but he is a dark lynx point with a deep golden coat, and the two that are allergic to chicken, one is a dark charcoal grey maine coon mix, and the other is an Egyptian Mau/Abby cross...however my three that are mostly white are virtually garbage disposals and can and do eat just about everything on the planet that doesn't try to eat them first. :lol: I guess that just defaults back to every cat is different.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Peanut butter: Beau loves it, but I don't offer it on a regular basis. (He also loves potato chips and I do give him about the equivalent of one small chip every now and then).

White fur and allergies: well...Jeddie is the only cat I have had that I think has allergies and he is almost half white... My mom had a cat that had skin reactions and was what we (my family) call pseudo-Siamese. She was probably a tortie/chocolate Siamese mix. My Charlotte did not have skin allergy issues and was also a psuedo-Siamese with a lot of white.

Yep, ECID.

 

[pamela and tigger]

That was an interesting article, Pamela. Which Biosuperfood do you use? I was confused on the products on the linked page. It seemed like they were all for humans although they had testimonials about pets. I wonder if Jeddie could benefit from this to stop his itching and biting on his skin and fur?

For Tigger I use both the BioPreparation BP-2 and BP-3 (one in the AM and the other in the PM mixed in his food). This is the pet formula.

I take the BioSuperfood BSF-2 and BSF-3 for myself (for people).

I know it is kind of confusing.

But, like Dr. Hofve says in this article, the pet and people formulas are basically the same and you can just start off with the people formula (BSF-2) since it is the gentlest and a little cheaper.

Bio-Superfood: Choosing the Right Product

product info

Hope that helps.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Thanks, that dose help. Now, how much do you give him each day?

I have been adding FortiFlora to their food. Would you use BSF with that or not use FortiFlora?

 

[Lana & Yoyo]

My Major is allergic to chicken, turkey, beef and lamb among many other things. Chicken, turkey and beef are quite common allergents for cats according to Dr. Deva Khalsa who treated Major for his allergy problems.

I had a telephone consult with Dr. Khalsa this morning. I realized I have encountered this or something very similar before -- at the chiropractor. They offered me complimentary allergy testing. I have very few allergies and I was positive for very few on their test also. In fact I didn't know what most of them were except for Vit K. . . Vit K??????? How can anybody be allergic to Vit K?. I am proceeding with Dr. Khalsa. She said, "I know, it sounds like voodoo." All I can say at this point is, "We will see what we will see."

Dr. Khalsa also told me that cats that are white or predominately white have a higher probability of having immune related health issues

On my umpteenth trip to the vet years ago for a rash, the vet told me that white cats seem to have a lot more skin problems than other cats. I've come to think of it as White Cat Syndrome!

My Major is allergic to chicken, turkey, beef and lamb among many other things.

. . .the two that are allergic to chicken. . .

I had no idea allergy to chicken was all that common. The past couple of days, I have been trying to feed just chicken, turkey, & rabbit. With so little variety, Yoyo has just dug his heels in and refused to eat. It has sent his blood sugar into the basement and he is very annoyed with BG testing (unusual for him). I gave up and just gave him FF Salmon for his afternoon snack. He is pleased with the snack and no doubt pleased with himself for manipulating me to give it to him.

Lana

 

[KSAkitties]

Lana,

With Dr. Khalsa's approach, my recommendation to you is to stay open minded (and I think you are anyway.). I always ask Dr. Khalsa to explain it to me what she did for any of my kitties EACH TIME. She would explain it to me in writing but it all sounded Greek (or more like voodoo) to me. All I care now is that I see results.

Much of my knowledge on feline care, feline nutrition, allergy, holistic care (combined with traditional allopathic veterinary care)........ comes from one of the feline health forums that was set up by a former FDMB member. If you are interested in finding out more about that forum, please email me.

I never knew about this white cat sydrome until Dr. Khalsa told me that she's seen more immune related allergy issues with white cats than with any other cats. I did remember a friend of mine telling me before that she only likes to adopt black cats because they tend to be healthier according to her vet. I thought she was crazy, and her vet was even crazier to make that kind of comment.

Any way, white, black, ginger, tortie, green, red........I don't care about the colour of the cat. I love them all!

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

I gave up and just gave him FF Salmon for his afternoon snack. He is pleased with the snack and no doubt pleased with himself for manipulating me to give it to him.

I am sure he is VERY pleased with himself! flip_cat They are master manipulators, that's for sure.