Young again zero carb dry

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Sandman, not sure what your issues are but why don't you keep to advice and leave the editorializing alone? nobody is going to ban you, this isn't YDC.
 
I hate to admit that when we had 40 cats on the farm (people always dump cats in the country) we actually fed them dried dog food. My parents didn't want to take them to the pound where they would be euthanized but they couldn't afford that much cat food. Why is cat food so much more expensive than dog food? We had 22 cats when we moved to Scottsdale, AZ. Good thing we had horse property there. :|
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Sandman, not sure what your issues are but why don't you keep to advice and leave the editorializing alone? nobody is going to ban you, this isn't YDC.
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Whatever. I'm outta here.

Good luck, Lucy.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Lucy, if your cat isn't eating the canned food and you've tried a variety, then my advice is to supplement with some dry that at least has some reasonable ingredients. Is it perfect? no, but nothing in the world is perfect and your cat needs to eat :)
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Lucy, have you tried my suggestion of freeze dried raw food and canned food? You could feed canned food with extra water added when you are home and leave the (dry) crunchy freeze dried raw food out when you are not home. Use Stella and Chewy's brand of freeze dried raw. There are other brands out there but they are either supplemental foods only or are ridculously expensive (like Primal Pet at nearly $40 for a 12 oz bag :shock: ).

Do you think your cat will go for raw food? That's another option you can explore. You can buy a commercial brand, make your own using a recipie (like the one at Catinfo.org), or do a sort of semi-homemade by using a pre-mix (TC Instinct, Alnutrin, etc) with raw meats of your choice.

Iams MaxCal canned formula may help give your cat the calories she needs so she doesn't get too skinny.

Lucy said:
Why is cat food so much more expensive than dog food?
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I'm not sure. I do know that with the Nature's Variety Instinct canned foods, you can feed the dog forumlas to a cat. NV uses the same exact formula for dogs and cats. The dog formulas come in bigger sized cans which are more economical for multi cat households and don't cost much more than a can of cat formula.
 
Lucy said:
...I only want to feed the dried food because she is losing weight...
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Give canned kitten food a shot, then. It'll have higher energy availability for growth. I think the Fancy Feast Kitten Turkey and Giblets might work. Cat's body's can break down both fats and proteins to yield carbohydrates as needed.
 
I have tried freezedried raw in the past. I can't remember the brand but she wouldn't eat it. :(
 
Now that her bloodsugar is under control she will put weight back on...even on canned food...as BJM suggested if she needs to gain feed more or feed a higher calorie food such as kitten food. Both of my diabetics were adopted as diabetics...when Maxwell arrived he was barely over 10lbs and is a very big Maine Coon mix so he looked like a walking skeleton at 10lbs (ideal weight for him is 17lbs). In the beginning I was feeding him 3 (5.5oz) cans of friskies a day...now that he has been in remission for 2 years he eats 1.5 cans a day and maintains his proper weight of 16.5lbs. Same with my recent adoption Autumn she didn't weigh even 6lbs when I adopted her, she is still insulin dependent for now but same thing I fed her heavily in the beginning and 7 months later she tips the scale at 14lbs her ideal weight and now maintains on a little over 1 (5.5oz) can a day.

Just like with people, need to lose weight eat less, need to gain weight eat more. You can even free feed the canned food, just add a little water to it and keep it away from a heat source such as the fridge or a heat vent and it will be fine left out up to 12 hours a day. When the dish is empty just refill, the only exception to that is you want to pick up the food about 2 hours before preshot tests to get a true, non-food influnenced reading. But other than that she can munch on canned food to her heart's content. You can even freeze canned food and put it out frozen for her to nibble on as it thaws for those times when you aren't going to be home, or to hold her overnight

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Lucy said:
I have tried freezedried raw in the past. I can't remember the brand but she wouldn't eat it. :(
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Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw for cats came out earlier this year. It won't hurt to give it a try. Buy one of those single serve pouches to see if your cat likes it or not so that you're not wasting money on a big bag. There are 6 different varieties that are diabetic-friendly. You can feed it as it, rehydrated in water, or sprinkled on top of canned food. See if your cat will eat straight from the fridge or slighly warmed up (few seconds in microwave) with the freeze dried raw on top.

Jen & Squeak said:
as long as there is sufficient taurine
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Yes, the NV formulas has enough of everything for cats :smile: The only difference is the labeling (for dogs or for cats) and the can sizes.
 
Ok, so I just have to share that the young again zero carb arrived today. After barely touching her wet food all morning she is scarfing down the YA. She stepped right over the wet food for it. I know that dry food may not be ideal but I feel awful that she was losing weight because I was forcing her to eat the wet food (we tried every kind of wet food, my pantry is a wet food graveyard). I think that there isn't one right answer for everyone.

Plus, the zero carb is high protein at 55% minimum. Her canned food is only 10% protein and she eats so little each day that I don't think she is getting her nutrients.

Anyways, I am going to take my chances. I can't stand to watch her lose weight, she doesn't like canned food, raw food, or dried raw food. I have changed her diet a dozen times now. She loves the no carb, she can free feed off of it, I am going with it.

She is still eating! I haven't seen her eat this much in weeks.
 
How're you doing the math on that?

Its dry weight in grams for each of protein, carbohydrate and fat, times calories per gram (3.5 each protein and carbohydrate; 8.5 calories per gram for fat). Sum the total calories. Now take the percent of total calories from each of protein fat and carb

ie
calories from protein / total calories = % calories from protein
calories from fat / total calories = % calories from fat
calories from carbohydrate / total calories = % calories from carbohydrate
 
I didn't do any math, I just looked at the labels (10% protein on canned, 55% on young again).

I really appreciate everyone's support in these forums. However, I have to make my own decision on this. I have never seen her like a food this much. She is old, skinny, and hates the wet food. I am going to let her enjoy her final meals....
Heather
 
Then the 55% isn't comparing apples to apples. You're comparing a dry food vs a wet food, without adjusting for the water content, plus you're doing it on weight, not % calories from source. We evaluate diets based on the % calories from carbohydrates, not the weight, and after the water content has been accounted for.

You do need to do what works; you also need to be clear about what you're actually doing, though, so you don't make an error.
 
Lucy, the most important thing is that your cat eats. OK, dry food isn't 'ideal' but, if I had your cat, who knows, maybe I would come to exactly the same conclusions - and decision - that you have.

Here's hoping that this food enables your cat to put on some much needed weight. But do keep an eye on her BG levels and water intake.

(((Hugs))) to you. I know this hasn't been an easy decision for you to make.
 
Thanks for your support Elizabeth, it is very kind of you. She is STILL EATING! This shows me that she hasn't been eating when she is hungry, poor thing. I will keep an eye on her numbers. They have been rising anyways so it will be hard to tell if the food is causing it or if it was happening anyways.
 
BJM, what error are you speaking of? At this point I think my error has been letting her waste away due to what is beginning to feel like dogma. She is boney, and apparently hungry.
 
People here really want whats best for your kitty, honest. They're not just followers of dogma.
Hang onto the canned food you have. Once your kitty is back to feeling better, give it a try again. I DONT mean instead of the dry just offer it with the dry, just to see if she changes (just a suggestion). It could happen. We're not trying to starve your kitty OR put you down ok?
ECID...Every cat is different.
jeanne
 
I'm sorry JT, I was referring to BJM's comment about an error that I might make. I really don't think of the kind folks here on the forums as followers of dogma. It is just difficult when you agonize over the right decision, then you hear arguments against it. I do appreciate your comments.
 
As I did note, eating comes first.

That being said, when my dad was doing chemical marketing research, he investigated cat foods on one of his projects. They told him cats would eat sawdust if it had the right fats on it. So the fact a cat is eating it may just mean they've got the right flavor enhancers on it, not that it is particularly nutritious.

And dry food is just that - dry. I've had several cats over the years with renal disease, before I knew about the long-term impact of dry foods on many, if not most, cats. It was heartbreaking to watch them be slowly poisoned by their body's inability to remove toxins (and they need more water to do it, the worse the kidneys become), become more and more uremic (you can smell the urine on their breath when they are end stage), losing weight, starting to vomit because of the uremia, and when they stopped eating, having to euthanize them.

Renal disease is a known complication of diabetes; anything you can do to reduce that risk is worth it. Please Keep working on the wet or raw foods trials, following the transitioning ideas from Dr Pierson's site.

At least learning how to do subcutaneous insulin injections partially trains you to do subcutaneous fluid injections. should you ever need them (dehydration can occur from numerous conditions including DKA, hyperthyroidism, renal disease, diarrhea, vomiting, and more)
 
Lucy I understand completely where you are coming from I have the same problem in this house kitty that will NOT eat an all wet diet she will starve herself before she will give in. She has CRF so it really isn't ideal for her but what are you going to do? We feed her the best possible food we can find and offer her a buffet of wet food in hopes that she will like one of them today we also give her raw which she will inhale on somedays and walk away from on others. You have to do what is right for your cat and food no matter what is what is right.
 
I think it is great that she is eating, dry or not.

I think BJM's point is that if you are reading the labels and comparing numbers you aren't getting the true picture.
If you are comparing guaranteed analysis vs as fed vs whatever other method, you might be making an error in judging which has more protein.

Jen
 
Lucy said:
She is old, skinny, and hates the wet food. I am going to let her enjoy her final meals....
Heather
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Just wanted to say I would probably have come to the same decision if I were in your shoes. This disease has so many different facets that juggling them all can be very challenging. One day at a time, great day today - you got her to eat!
 
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