You can have success with Caninsulin!!!

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Beemer

Member Since 2013
Hi everyone,
My cat was diagnosed with diabetes October 29th 2013 and started on insulin (Caninsulin) on November 1st. When diagnosed, Beemer's level was over 20. Beemer has been on Caninsulin ever since, and I was giving him 2 units.

After all the research and reading I did on FDMB, I considered switching him to Lantus or another well recommend insulin, but I waited to see how Caninsulin worked. It turns out that it's worked really well! Beemer has very good curves: Nadirs 5/6 hours after dosage, natural curves which are getting flatter and flatter, and no weird peaks/lows or unexpected results. Beemer's pre shot numbers started to get so low (around 10 - 13)that on November 17th, I reduces his dosage to 1.5 - and after a few days his pre shot numbers went down to 8, and then 6 - so I decided last night that he was too low to give him insulin. It's been since yesterday morning since his last insulin shot, and he's been holding steady in the 7 range!!

It's too early to say those three magic words yet - but I just wanted to let everyone know of my success! I know there are a lot of Caninsulin users out there (either by choice or by necessity) - and it goes to show that every cat is different, and it's all about what works for your cat! Caninsulin is an option and can be a great option for your cat, as it has been for mine.
 
Very true that every cat is different! And some respond to Caninsulin as well.:-) Terrific that the numbers have stayed steady even without a shot.
What kind of meter are you using? I only ask because even though 7 is a great number to see, on a human meter that's a tiny bit higher than you'd want on a long term basis (126 to us). A 5 or 6 would be extremely good and safe. So just keep an eye on the numbers.
Of course if you are using a pet meter like an alphatrack, a 7 is perfectly fine.
Overall, in your shoes I'd be smiling a lot :-D
 
Thank you so much for posting this.

I'm SO pleased that Beemer is doing well, and the fact that he has achieved this with Caninsulin will be very reassuring and encouraging to others who are also using it.

I think it's fair to say that Caninsulin gets a bit of a bad press here at times, but there are quite a few people who are only able to get this particular insulin (or who have to use it initially before being able to be prescribed a different insulin.) And quite a number of UK and European cats have gone into remission with it.

You have done a tremendous job, and you're a great advert for hometesting. Without your hometesting ability you'd never have known that Beemer's insulin requirements were diminishing. Excellent work! :-D

Small, frequent meals will help Beemer's pancreas to recover without overwhelming it with too much to do at any one time. And is there a lower carb food you could try? Just wondering whether it's possible to inch Beemer's blood glucose down a smidgen more.

We're keeping fingers and paws crossed that Beemer continues to do well, and I hope we get an OTJ ('off the juice') announcement from you soon (anti-jinx!)... nailbite_smile

Eliz
 
Yes, I agree that I would like to see his blood go down some more - I actually tested him last night an hour AFTER eating, and he was down to 6.3, and I just tested him this morning and he's at 5.9!!!! :-D He's now officially two days without insulin (12 more to go apparently until he's officially you-know-what, I believe - or is that only the case with Lantus?)

Since being diagnosed with diabetes, thanks to the wonderful advice on the board, I've been feeding my cat Fancy Feast pate, and President's Choice pate (a Canadian brand - that according to the lists on here is very low carb). I've also been feeding him small frequent meals (1/4 can of PC, or 1/2 FF about 4 - 6 times day). So I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do to bring him down lower naturally with his diet at this point, but lookiing at last nights and today's numbers - he may already be going down!!

Thanks for the well wishes!
 
Beemer said:
...He's now officially two days without insulin (12 more to go apparently until he's officially you-know-what, I believe - or is that only the case with Lantus?..
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14 days in normal numbers without any insulin means that a kitty can be considered in remission.
So, this is Beemer's 'OTJ trial'..... nailbite_smile

And it sounds as though you're already on top of the 'feeding small frequent meals' thingy so I feel that I'm 'teaching my Granny to suck eggs, here!' (Strange expression that, isn't it..? And I'm pretty sure my Granny never sucked an egg in her life.... :lol: )

C'mon Beemer - we know you can do this!!! :RAHCAT
 
Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:
  • Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas). The morning test is now called the AMBG. The evening test is now called the PMBG.
  • If your cat is green (0-99 human meter, 0-5.5 mmoL) at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If the numbers are blue (100-199 human meter, 5.5-11 mmoL), feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
  • After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party! And boy, do we party hearty. :cool:

Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.
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This is very encouraging for me. Like you, my cat Freya was also diagnosed late October 2013. I too am located in Canada, Fraser Valley area of BC to be more exact. We are on caninsulin as well. I had so many concerns that the Caninsulin may not be the right one to be giving her, but like you her BG's (at the vets office too) were within acceptable ranges. I was concerned cause as Eliz has posted: "Caninsulin gets a bit of a bad press here at times".

Freya's BG's have continued to be within acceptable levels (yes were testing at the vet, I have not built up the courage to do it at home yet, I will eventually, I didnt even think I would be able to give the insulin, and I am able to do that now).

Reading that your getting good results, encourages me to continue on the path were on, and wait and see if Freya continues to do fine on the Caninsulin.

Thanks for your post.

Congrats to you and your cat for doing so well, I hope your able to get Beemer OTJ!!
 
Thanks for the OTJ advice Deb. At what blood level would you decide to give more insulin in the OTJ trial? I’ve been seeing 7.9, but I would be hesitant to give him more insulin until I see him at 10 or higher. Would you agree? (By the way – I checked his blood this evening – and it’s 6.6! Still under 7!! :mrgreen: )

Deb you said:
feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
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If I check Beemer’s blood 3-4 hours after eating (if he is in fact >5.5 at the PM/AMBG) what would you say is a normal/no cause for concern increase? For example – if I check him at his AMBG and he is 6.5, and then 3-4 hours later he is 6.9 – would that be a cause for concern?

Cory – I’m glad to hear a fellow Canadian kitty is doing well on Caninsulin! (By the way - I'm in Nova Scotia) I think it's great that you're going to continue on Caninsulin! Even though I had good results. I was still considering switching Beemer because of all the negativity towards Caninsulin (even though I still know the bad press is warranted, but now that I've started his OTJ trial - I know it's the best one for Beemer - and that every cat is really different).

And for Freya - if you can give insulin, you can home test!! I have a much easier time with checking blood than I do giving insulin! You've probably read a ton on here already about home testing, but here are the tips and tricks that worked for me. It took me about 3/4 days before I was successfully able to get a blood sample - but some helpful folks on the board gave me some good tips which did the trick.
- I use a Accu Chek Aviva Nano - which is a good one, requires little blood (.06uL) - but the strips are expensive (but I think they all are in Canada - or at least in Nova Scotia)
- I check his blood on the inside of his ear, on the outer edge
- I warm his ear using a heated rice sock (a rice with sock in it, heated up in the microwave) - and by rubbing his ears
- I freehand the lancet - I bought 28 gauge lancets, as they are larger, so more likely to draw blood
- I support the back of his ear with a cosmetic pad, then inject the lancet quickly into his ear, giving full support in the back with my fingers in the area that I'm poking.
- I push up from behind on the area that I poked, and push around the poked area to draw up blood.
- Viola! He has a sufficient blood sample - after this - I've been able to get blood from him every time. I've been putting polysporin on his ears to help with the redness.

I really encourage you to test! As Elizabeth said, without home testing, you have no way of knowing if your kitty's insulin needs are diminishing. I was scared, nervous, apprehensive - all negative emotions - towards blood testing, and I've only been doing it for a few weeks, and it already feels like an easy routine thing.

Best of luck to you and Freya!

Thanks for the encouragement everyone!! :smile:
 
For example – if I check him at his AMBG and he is 6.5, and then 3-4 hours later he is 6.9 – would that be a cause for concern?
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I would say "no, not a cause for concern". In US numbers you're looking at a 115 and a 124. Less than 10% difference between the two numbers. The meters have a degree of accuracy of +/- 20%, so that's within limits for variance on the meter. You could test twice in two minutes and see the same degree of variance.
 
Those 2 numbers are pretty much the same, so they fall into my "not concerned" range for numbers.

This gives you a good idea what the different ranges of numbers mean.

BJM said:
Conceptually, it is somewhat like reading a thermometer in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Freezing, for example, is 0 degrees Celsius and 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
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You want to see the majority of the numbers below 100 mg dL ( < 5.5 mmol/L) to consider this a successful OTJ trial. Sometimes, it takes the entire 14 days of the trial for the BG numbers to settle down. If the numbers keep in the 50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) range, then you have a successful OTJ trial.

Beemer is still running a bit in the upper range of normal, but still acceptable. I'd keep a close eye on his numbers and see how he continues to do.
 
Thanks Deb for the additional info. Beemer has been had most of his numbers between 4.5-6.4 for the last couple of days - so I feel pretty good about that. The last higher number he had was his PMBG on Nov 22nd of 7.8, but before that he was 6.3 and under for 2 days.
I spoke to my vet and he said he would be hesitant to give insulin again until his was at least 10 - when I look ay others s/s during the OTJ trials, many seem to give insulin again at lower BG levels than that - but Beemer has been doing so well, I just think any high would be more of a abnormality, rather than a necessity for insulin.
 
I agree. Yes, others shoot lower than you are during OTJ trials, but that is with the milder insulins. I think you run the risk of his suddenly dropping after the shot if you give insulin below 10. I think you are doing fine. Just keep watching. :-D

This is one of the disadvantages of Canninsulin. You can't shoot mini doses into lower numbers easily. It would take a lot of monitoring and likely intervention with food/honey etc.
 
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