Wow...I'm lost. Need basic advice.

[Robotaz]

Hi. It looks like I'm going to be around for awhile based on my cat's current state of health. Combine that with the "care" that he's receiving and it looks like I'm in for advanced training in cat health.

I'm very concerned, and very upset at what has happened over the last two days, so please let me qualify my attitude by saying that I am try to be positive, but struggling. His name is Little Boy and he is approximately 15 years old. His older sister Kita is an extremely healthy and happy cat. She acts like she's a year old, and Little Boy did, too, until I messed things up for him.

So we have been dealing with a very sick cat for two years. He was 18-20 lbs, like he had been for 13 years, and stupid me decided it was a good thing to have his teeth looked at. Let's just say that he came out with IBS and almost died, barely hanging on now for two years. He's at 10.9 lbs now and I just want to jump off a cliff when I look at him and think about what caused this. So basically I feel terrible and the stress of his struggling and our financial pressure makes me feel very guilty. After countless stupid vets with no clue what they're doing, basically almost killing him with Prednisone and all kinds of other nasty drugs, fake cancer diagnoses to make money off of us, etc.(typical medical community experiences), I found a guy in NM who makes holistic products that stopped the IBS, for the most part. PM me if you want more info on that because the results I received were absolutely miraculous. He has been on Glipizide now for probably a year and yesterday his BG was 409. The vet prescribed insulin. I went to the pharmacy and they informed me it would cost $190 and most would be wasted because the vials are way, way too much insulin to use in a month. Surprise, surprise. Let's just say that when I get within sight of a pharmacy my blood pressure goes up. I can't stand anything about them. Sorry, I digress.

*deep breath*

So, I'm at a point in my life where I just feel like everyone is incompetent and careless, from my coworkers all the way down to my vet. I feel like I have to become an expert at everyone else's jobs to get anything done and not get ripped off. My stress level is 11 out of 10. My vet has told me nothing about what to expect other than it would cost "about $60 for several months". Yeah right. So now I realize that my vet is an idiot who has no clue what she's talking about. That brings me here.

1.) should I trust this vet to know how much insulin my cat needs, or will I have to rely on testing him myself? 2.) once I establish that the dosage is right, what prices can I actually expect if I know what I'm doing? 3.) where do educated people go to buy these products?

I don't need to learn more about diabetes, insulin, cats, or anything other than purchasing and administering the insulin. I simply do not have time to go deeper into this since I work 60 hours a week. I just need the fastest course to him receiving insulin, the correct insulin, and being able to afford the treatment. Hopefully that makes sense.

Thank you in advance. Forums are priceless in this age. I promise if you help me learn what I'm doing that I will diligently pass on what I learn here.

-Rob

 

[Tara & Buster]

Hi Rob! I am at work so I can't post the links to all the great info, but I just wanted to let you know you have found the best place possible for Little Boy! This is a wonderful, knowledgeable, caring community!

People here will want to know what kind of insulin you are using and also where you live? Also, diet is a major component in caring for a sugar cat. What are you currently feeding?

I'm sure someone will stop by with more advice soon... Welcome!

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

First, keep taking those deep breaths. We have a protocol that works to keep cats safe and healthy on insulin and some even go into remission. You have gotten some bad advice. Diet matters. Treatment doesn't have to bankrupt you. This is doable. But we have seen no successes with Glizide.does not work well.

We give three preferred insulins - Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. They are initially expensive, but they DO last 6 months or more if you keep them refrigerated. We test our cats at home just like we would our 2 legged kids, saving vet costs and keeping them safe, knowing how the insulin is working and how their numbers range. We have taught hundreds of people how, over the internet. There is a free testing kit that we can send you (picture at the top of this page)

The other important part is food. This vet explains it well: http://www.catinfo.org. We feed wet, low carb food. It can make a huge difference in blood glucose levels (100 points overnight in my cat when I switched from dry to wet). BUT don't switch until you are testing, so he won't crash on his usual dose if his numbers go down.

Keep reading other posts and the threads on the main page. Keep up those deep breaths and ask questions. We'd like to help - cause someone else helped everyone of us at some point.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Hi Rob and extra sweet kitty dude Little Boy and welcome to the FDMB.

1.) should I trust this vet to know how much insulin my cat needs, or will I have to rely on testing him myself?

Dosage is usually initially weight based. The protocol we use for Lantus is 0.25U per kilo of cat's ideal weight or current weight if underweight, rounded down to the nearest 1/4 unit for safety and ease of measuring. Most cats do not need more than 1U to start, of any insulin.

Home testing will save you a lot of money and vet visits.

2.) once I establish that the dosage is right, what prices can I actually expect if I know what I'm doing?

Don't know. I've only fostered diabetic cats, and the rescue has provided the insulin to me.

3.) where do educated people go to buy these products?

Local pharmacy, mom and pop drugstore, big box store like Target or Wal-Mart.

Lantus and Levimir are both available in a pen size. This is essentially a miniature vial, with 3ml of insulin instead of 10ml of insulin. With proper storage in the fridge, these pens can usually be used to the last drop. You draw the insulin out with an insulin syringe, not the pen tips which are not accurate enough for the tiny doses our cats get.

The manufacturer of Lantus offers a savings card program. Sign up your cat, needs to be age 18 to use the card. A pen of lantus will cost you $25 with this savings card, for the first 6 prescriptions. You will need to call around to find a pharmacy that will sell a single pen at a time. Some hospitals, some Targets, some Wal-marts, maybe mom and pop pharmacies. Link to savings card program You vet needs to write the prescription for the Lantus Solostar pen, 1 pen, 5 refills.

I am not aware of a similar savings program for Levimir.

If you live close enough to Canada, you can drive across the border and buy insulin without a prescription.

If you have already purchased the 10ml vial of insulin, we have found that you can get 4-6 months life by storing in the fridge. The 28 days stated on the box is because the manufacturer did not test after the 28 days, to see if the insulin was still effective.

You said cost was a big factor. U-100 Insulin syringes for Lantus and Levimir are less expensive than U-40 insulin syringes for Prozinc. You want 3/10 cc syringes, with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. Available at Wal-Mart, box of 100 runs around $13-14.

I would not choose an insulin based solely on the syringe cost. Lantus and Levimir and long duration depot type insulins. Best dosed on 12/12 schedule but there is some flexibility. People here have dosed on 11/13, 10/14, 9/15 schedules. Prozinc is an in and out insulin. Best dosed on 12/12 schedule but more flexibility in the dosing times. I mention this, because you say you work 60 hours a week. One insulin may fit your work schedule better than another one.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Ok so to summarize quick since you dont have a lot of time . Feel free to ask questions if you do want justifications and more info

- Glipizide isnt good at all. Choose a good insulin like Lantus, levemir or Prozinc. Contrary to label, a vial will last 6 months in the fridge. Use the Lantus coupon and get it for $25. What insulin and what dose did they recommend?

- Food is key - low carb canned foods can help bring down blood sugar ie fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates (Cheapest). What are you currently feeding?

- with a food change , the cat will likely need less insulin. We strongly recommend home testing the blood. We can provide tips, cheap shopping lists etc.


Wendy

 

[Robotaz]

OK. Lots of information from you guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Just hearing opinions on Glipizide is a major help.

Little Boy has/had IBS. It about killed him before I finally figured out how to treat him for it.

He eats a combination of foods. One is to control the IBS, and one is to lower glucose. The food for IBS, dry Natures' Variety Instinct, is the ONLY food out of so many that we tried which helps the IBS. He is on Hill's dry M/D for glucose control. The current ratio of blending the foods is about 1:1. If I raise the Hill's, he doesn't have enough of the Instinct to control the diarrhea. The best IBS results would be from 100% Instinct. FYI, Vitality Science Feline Comfort is what I used to stop the IBS. I used up one course and it has been manageable since. I feel like it saved his life.

Both of my cats have to have a bowl with dry food in it or they get extremely anxious and start vomiting. They are both rescued and I think their early months before I came along really scarred them. I have to leave food. They will eat wet food in five minutes and then have none for hours while I'm at work. We've tried many times, but so far I can't figure out how to do it. I do have a gate blocking the doorway from our dog who tries to eat their food. There's a lot of drama at my house over animal food if it isn't obvious.

My mother-in-law is bringing us test strips and a glucose meter tomorrow from another state. I don't know what i"m getting, so please advise if I need something very specific. I'd think a test strip and meter of any type is better than nothing.

I am waiting for my vet to call so that I can explain what happened at the pharmacy and see what she says. I just don't know what to do about food. I've been dealing with this for so long that I'm just worn out. Shots twice daily is bad enough. We haven't had a vacation in two years because of a cat. The whole house is worn out.

Thanks again and I'll report back what the vet says.

 

[Robotaz]

The vet did say she prescribed Lantus and she did confirm I can keep the bottle as long as it lasts, as stated here, which I appreciate greatly.

I am now going to shop for Lantus and U100 syringes. I will acquire the meter and test strips tomorrow.

Unless directed otherwise by members here, I will probably buy wet food for both the Instinct and M/D. I will come back here and check for advice before I buy the food. Please keep in mind I need the Instinct for the IBS, regardless of suggestions.

When I have all of this in hand, I will come back and seek more guidance on the process of starting it all and testing.

Thanks so much! I am very grateful!

-Rob

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Natures variety raw dry is low carb but I dont know if that will help IBD. The others and the Hills dry are too high in carb so the wets would be better.

Tthe Nature variety instinct grain free cans are low carb too (check out column C % calories from carbs here - you want under 10% : http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf) .

Hills M/D canned is 14% (see same chart above) which is too high.

 

[KPassa]

Make sure you ask for the syringes with half-unit markings. Sometimes the pharmacist won't realize they have them so check the syringe before buying (you can't return blood-related products like glucometers and syringes).

 

[BJM]

I've read that a raw diet may help IBS, so I'm wondering if Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw (meant to be rehydrated but may be eaten dry) or Youg Again 0 Carb (internet only, free sample possible) might be useful.

 

[Robotaz]

I just wanted to log in and report my little buddy's progress as a way to offer hope and encouragement to others.

Little Boy has been on Lantus, as needed, since last fall. I'd say it's been about 9 months.

He used to get over 400 while under stress, going to the vet, and regularly ran well over 250 at home on wet and dry food with almost no calories at all from carbohydrates. He eats Natures Variety dry chicken, NV wet chicken (dog food is same formula but cheaper), and he eats Tiki cans of wet food without rice added.

I gave him a tiny drop, less than .5 units, about a week ago of the Lantus from the pens, and he has been 100 or less every day thus week. He was actually down to 72 at a random check on my lunch break a few days ago.

I just want to say, I worried sick about spending $300 on insulin for him with no end in sight, but faithful, diligent treatment at home has dramatically changed his life. I credit it to lots of love, time, energy, and of course Lantus.

Don't skimp out if you love your cats. Don't give up. They really can recover, but they need the Lantus to stay stable and allow the pancreas to recover.

I'm indebted to the patient and wise people on this forum who listened to me vent my frustrations with vets. I cannot say thank you enough. Everyone who contributes here, and especially those who offered me advice, are life savers.

My name is Rob and if anyone feels desperate and needs direct communication with someone who has won this battle, you are welcome to email me at "rnapper_ems" "at" "yahoo.com"

Thanks and good luck to everyone. I will be praying for you and your precious little loved ones.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Hey Rob and kitty Little Boy! Long time no see (or hear). Nice to get a post from you on how well Little boy is doing.

Sounds like he may be trying to go OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice).

Do you follow the Tight Regulation protocol?

It's possible that if you eliminated the Nature's Variety Dry Food from the diet, your cats BG levels would drop and you might get him OTJ. Doing a quick calculation on the Nature's Variety Dry Food (grain-free version), I get 23% carbs. Add up protein, fat, moisture, fiber and subtract from 100 to get a rough estimate of the carb content.

If you do decide to try eliminating the dry food, you may want to hold off on giving any insulin for a few days, or even only a tinier amount, like 0.25U or even 0.1U. Without that tapioca, a starch or carb, the BG's may go into normal range and stay there.

 

[KPassa]

Hey Rob! Good to hear from you again.

I gave him a tiny drop, less than .5 units, about a week ago of the Lantus from the pens, and he has been 100 or less every day thus week. He was actually down to 72 at a random check on my lunch break a few days ago.

Meaning, you haven't given insulin in a week? That is great news! What we suggest is testing every day for 14 days to make sure the numbers stay below 120 on a human meter. After 14 days, then a kitty is considered in remission, or OTJ!

 

[Robotaz]

It's possible that if you eliminated the Nature's Variety Dry Food from the diet, your cats BG levels would drop and you might get him OTJ. Doing a quick calculation on the Nature's Variety Dry Food (grain-free version), I get 23% carbs. Add up protein, fat, moisture, fiber and subtract from 100 to get a rough estimate of the carb content.

I have to give my cats dry food or they have serious anxiety issues. I think when I was in school and spent endless hours in the engineering building that they developed an association between me being home and food. When they got bored, they would go to their bowls and eat. That's just a guess, but regardless, if I don't leave them some dry food they will literally pace, fight, get diarrhea, poop/pee in weird places, yell all night the next night because their sleep is all messed up, etc., etc. Trust me, it's best that they have access to dry food.

That said, NVI chicken is only 3-4% calories from carbs. I spent countless hours in the pet stores reading tables from the internet and ingredients on the cans and bags.

I honestly never did figure out how people could say to get the cats off of dry food. Knowing all of the cats I've had, it just isn't feasible for people who work. And I think that may be the key.

Anyway, I'm now struggling with Little Boy going to the bathroom in the wrong locations. I really think these years of struggle have taken a toll on him. He still is loving and for the most part seems happy, but he's really wearing us out. Just last night I came home from working 10 straight hours worrying at a desk and had him pooping behind my couch. So I wound up pulling all of the furniture out and using my carpet cleaning machine to do the carpets on that half of the room. It gets really, really old never being able to relax because he's so high maintenance.

 

[Robotaz]

Hey Rob! Good to hear from you again.

I gave him a tiny drop, less than .5 units, about a week ago of the Lantus from the pens, and he has been 100 or less every day thus week. He was actually down to 72 at a random check on my lunch break a few days ago.

Meaning, you haven't given insulin in a week? That is great news! What we suggest is testing every day for 14 days to make sure the numbers stay below 120 on a human meter. After 14 days, then a kitty is considered in remission, or OTJ!

There's no question he's in remission. The trend of bouncing up and down, then stability, then hovering around 100 has been crazy to watch. It was not long ago that we were still bumping up over 200.

I just test him every few days and make sure. I have all of the materials and it only takes about 1-2 minutes.

I figure I'll test him every week for the rest of his life.