worried about the high protein diet for our other cats.CRF??

[Pip & Rupert]

we have five cats in the house. Thankfully, only one is diagnosed diabetic. The others are 'normal', or at least seem that way so far! all getting on in age though and I worry about the various problems that cats get in old age.

now that we've switched Rupert to a high protein, relatively high fat, low carb diet.. we've pretty much had to switch everyone over to the same. I'm assuming that this will be good for them all in the long run (all on wet food now, they've been on wet and dry for years).....

now I read that CRF, which is so common in older cats, can be aggravated by high protein diets, and a LOW protein diet is recommended.

what is the opinion here about this? I read some of you have cats that are both diabetic AND suffering CRF.... what do you feed?

I'm just a little concerned about our oldest cat, 14, always healthy, never a problem, looks fine, active, etc, etc.. but I"m wondering if this rather rapid switch to high protein diet, exclusively, might cause her problems. Tonight she threw up for the first time in ... as long as I can remember. not even really a 'throw up', just was sitting on the couch cleaning and I looked back and she had dark green bile/fluid coming out of her mouth. not a lot, maybe a teaspoon full and she wasn't one bit concerned. no retching, seemed to catch her by surprise as well as me. Now I'm a tad freaked that I might be making her sick whilst trying to save Rupert? Given that she hasn't vomited since, is eating fine, etc.etc. and seems perfectly unphased I'm probably just panicking unnecessarily. I"m just a bit too fragile at the moment right now and I don't think I could stand to lose another pet at the moment. Particularly this cat, who we've had the longest and has the most loving, gentle and caring personality. There have been mornings where I've been crying in bed (over the loss of our horse) and she jumps up and pats my tears with her paws, she truly is amazing. I would feel SO SO SO guilty if something I"m doing is making her sick.

anyone have any thoughts on the 'diabetic' diet and how it would work on non diabetic cats? I"m sure she's fine and I"m just being a twit.

 

[Lisa and Merlyn (GA)]

Re: worried about the high protein diet for our other cats.C

Newer thinking is that Low protein need only be fed when the cat is "end stage". What is more critical is the phosphorus content, which you want to be around/below 250 on Janet and Binkys charts.

Cats are obligate Carnivores, and when you feed them food as low in protein as some of the renal diets, they catabolize their own muscle mass to make up for the loss in protein.

http://www.felinecrf.org/

My Merlyn ate Wellness canned grainfree. His kidneys were moderate kidney disease but it was his heart that gave out.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Re: worried about the high protein diet for our other cats.C

As Lisa mentioned, unless you're in end stage you don't have to worry about low protein--in fact, low protein diets cause muscle wasting in cats and should not be fed long term. They can actually do more harm than good.

Here's a great site that explains the different stages of CKD (the newer term for CRF): http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm Most cats have some loss of kidney function as they age--the good news is that the progression of kidney disease can be stalled with the right diet. My Gabby was diagnosed with borderline stage1/stage 2 kidney disease, and in the 2 1/2 years I had left with her her kidney values did not change at ALL with the kidney-friendly diet I had her on. She passed away from cancer, completely unrelated to the kidney disease. If it weren't for the cancer, I would have had more years left with her.

You simply need a low carb, low phosphorus canned food, preferably without byproducts (higher quality protein sources are easier on the kidneys). Keeping your cat as hydrated as possible is key to managing the disease, along with low phosphorus foods. Mixing water in with the canned food is one good way to help with hydration.

Here's an updated food list with the values for several premium foods: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...MzhkYTkxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50. You're looking for something with less than 10% carbs and less than 250 mg/kcal of phosphorus. The foods I would suggest are Merrick's Before Grain Beef, Merrick's Before Grain Turkey, Merricks' Cowboy Cookout, Merrick's Surf & Turf, Wellness Turkey, EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey, and Blue Wilderness Duck.

If those are out of your price range, the next best thing to feed are the low carb Friskie's Special Diet flavors. These are Turkey & Giblets and Salmon Dinner--make sure they are the ones that say "special diet" on the can, though. PetSmart carries them, and some grocery stores. Here is an updated list of just the phosphorus values for many commercial foods. They can be cross referenced with Binky's chart for carb values if there's something on there that you want to feed. On this chart, you're looking for something that is less than 1% phosphorus (these values are on a dry matter basis, not mg/kcal): http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

Do NOT use Binky's list for phosphorus values--the carb values are still ok to use but the phosphorus values are really out of date, and some things that were low on that list are now ridiculously high in phosphorus.

Also, make sure you're changing the diet SLOWLY for your older cat--older cats especially tend to get upset stomachs if you switch too fast. The diet change should be done slowly, by gradually increasing the ratio of the new food to the old over the course of a week. Fortiflora also helps prevent problems.

I see that you're feeding Merricks--the Cowboy Cookout and Surf and Turf are great but the Ocean Breeze is not so good for older cats. I would suggest switching that flavor to the Grammy's Pot Pie--it's the same number of carbs but low in phosphorus. Or Merrick's Before Grain Turkey is also a good food for senior cats.

 

[Pip & Rupert]

Re: worried about the high protein diet for our other cats.C

thanx for the info! and good to know that the Merrick Cowboy cookout is good for both diabetic, and generally aging cat population. I have a flat of the ocean breeze that I'll use up on the younger two cats I guess, and I"ll stock up on more Merrick, haven't seen the Before grain stuff up here, but I haven't looked that hard either!

I was just feeling a tad fragile last night and somewhat overwhelmed, hence my massive panic when Bumley threw up. She is, of course, completely and utterly fine today and came and woke me up with a bop to the nose as per usual this morning!

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Re: worried about the high protein diet for our other cats.C

thanx for the info! and good to know that the Merrick Cowboy cookout is good for both diabetic, and generally aging cat population. I have a flat of the ocean breeze that I'll use up on the younger two cats I guess, and I"ll stock up on more Merrick, haven't seen the Before grain stuff up here, but I haven't looked that hard either!

I was just feeling a tad fragile last night and somewhat overwhelmed, hence my massive panic when Bumley threw up. She is, of course, completely and utterly fine today and came and woke me up with a bop to the nose as per usual this morning!

Sometimes cats just vomit every now and then--if it's not recurring and she seems fine, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Older cats can have acidic stomachs, too, and it seems to be be worse when they're hungry. I eventually started my senior kitty 6 times a day instead of 4, and that stopped the morning vomiting. Before that, she had to have a little pepcid once in a while.