Willy's hello & SS (I'm long winded)

Hello all!

My name is Stephanie and my kitty is named Willy. My husband and I picked Willy up as a stray. It took several months, but we were able to contact his owners who bluntly informed us that they did not want him back. He has been a much loved and appreciated family member ever since.

Willy is a very large orange DSH. The day after we found him, we took him into our vet and he tipped the scale at 15lbs! His old owners kept him outdoors, which may be what has caused him to lose one of his front canines and be such a voracious eater. 8 months ago when he stopped eating, slept with his head on his water dish only waking up to consume large quantities of water, and had an accident in our papasan chair, we knew there was a problem. We rushed him into the clinic and met with a vet (not our normal vet) who diagnosed him with a dental infection. She gave us antibiotics and told us if he continued to refuse food that day that we could syringe feed him some chicken baby food to spark his appetite. We spent all night up with him as he continued to get more sick and we waited for the clinic to open. We got him in early the next morning with the “dental” woman (our vet was out) who was very reluctant to see us. She took his temperature (high) and became confused when she was unable to get urine from him. She suggested that we leave him for a few hours and they will give him some fluids and try again (“if we are really that concerned”). Eventually we got a call that his urine came back positive for ketones and his BG was over 500--- he was in DKA and slipping quickly.

She told us if we wanted “to keep our cat” we would need to admit him to the 24 hr clinic for treatment because they were unable to handle it. The other option was to put him down because it was going to be a long/expensive/inconvenient/etc. road for us. We got a lot of judgment for our decision (we are mid twenties, and my husband is still in college) but it wasn’t even an option for us, we admitted him to the 24hr clinic. He spent 4 very expensive nights at the hospital and made a remarkable recovery. When we would visit him, the techs would tell us (jokingly) about how he almost took their arm off when they brough him his meals. We were given a number of handouts over many topics related to diabetes and a prescription for his food (Hills D/M) and his insulin (Lantus). We met up with OUR vet a few days later to discuss our treatment plan. Our vet, as wonderful as he is with animals, had very little knowledge on treating feline diabetes but he was able to present us with a cost efficient list of low-carb foods (Willy was a complete tantrum over being given the D/M once he felt better). We started on 1 unit of Lantus and were scheduled to return in a month for a fructosamine test.

We did a lot of research and stumbled upon this site, which has been amazing for us. We created our ICE hypo plan displayed on the refrigerator (my husband can be forgetful sometimes) and a list of supplies we NEED if we have to travel. We also learned a lot about what we probably *SHOULD* be doing. So we returned for the fructosamine test with many questions. Unfortunately, our vet was unable to answer any of them. He explained why he was doing the fructosamine instead of a curve (which was what the 24hr clinic had advised). He believed checking blood sugar was unnecessary and only stresses the cat out leading to an inaccurate result (and told us doing BG at home was going to be more difficult than it was probably worth). He did the fructosamine (which came back high 400s). He advised us to increased to 2 units 2x a day over the next month.

We called around to other clinics looking for a vet with more knowledge on diabetes but we were unable to find anyone that had any more knowledge than our current vet and reluctantly took a passive stance on Willy's treatment. While I regret not being more aggressive sooner, I do not regret leaving our clinic because they hired a very nice woman that has decent knowledge on diabetes. My only criticism is she is very rigid in her treatment approach (she really wants us to stay on D/M but Willy refuses to eat it, throws it up, or the rare occasion he keeps it down he gets horrible diarrhea).

We met with her in December, and Willy's fructosamine came back at 350. We have increased his insulin, switched his food to D/M and back to Fancy Feast, and we do a mini-curve every other week. Her goal was to get him ANYWHERE in the 200s for the full day. We do our curves at home to minimize stress and come in for a fructosamine test after 4 weeks of making a change. Willy has been such a trooper; he doesn’t mind having BG done if we prick his pads or getting his shots. I think it pains our hearts more to be poking our cat than it bothers him! He is on 4 units of Lantus 2x a day (8 total) and his BG is in the 200s now (220 in the AM, 280 in the PM) and holding. We still plan to make adjustments but we’ve been waiting to make the gradual jump to 5 units 2x a day because our vet wants to make sure he is not developing any sort of resistance (or improving further).



My questions:
We are supposed to be encouraging Willy to lose a pound by cutting his food back (she would like to see him at 14lbs). The vet insists he is not overweight, but simply losing a pound MAY decrease or eliminate his need for insulin. We currently feed 4 cans of Fancy Feast Classic split 2/2 AM and PM (chicken, beef, turkey on occasion, fish on occasion). Yes, this is a lot of food but he has lost a pound since the hospital and using D/M. We feed NO treats. Any time we cut his food back at all (even a tsp each meal) he completely freaks out and tries to get into things ALL THE TIME (even right after eating). It can be anything- a loaf of bread on the counter, the trash in the kitchen, bags of noodles in the pantry, the dog’s bully stick, wrappers etc. Our vet insists it will stop if we wait it out and we are not not not not to decrease his insulin. We have already removed the trash, don’t keep food out, etc. but he seems to hurt himself periodically searching for food (jumping off the counters wrong, trying to knock things over and they fall on him-- he has never been graceful) and his obsession is very upsetting to us (he will cry for days until he is completely hoarse). We have attempted to gradually cut him back twice, for 3 weeks each time with no success. I was wondering if anyone knew of a no/low calorie filler safe for cats (pumpkin? Green beans? Sweet Peas?). I would either like to give it to him at feeding times and cut back his food, or cut back his food and leave some amount out for him to "free feed" off of. If I were to leave it out I would monitor him closely because I know eating (period) can actually increase various chemicals even if the food is essentially nothing (splenda is the only example I can think of that does this atm but I think that's because your body anticipates BG that isn't actually there).

My other question is regarding Methyl-B12 as I just read up on this tonight! I came across the information on nerve damage and while none of these things are “him” I have been concerned about the feet slipping in the past. We have told our vet before because we actually thought he may have sprain something in one of his food grubbing attempts and the symptoms come and go. She didn’t think it was anything. I plan to talk to my vet about this information when she comes back from vacation but I fear she may not know anything that I haven’t found already and it may take me a few weeks to get this supplement. Anyways, I read Methyl-B12 can be put in drinking water because it won’t bind/store to fat (so they excrete anything they don’t need and won’t OD on it), I still have to ask, is this safe for other (healthy) animals to consume DAILY? I have a filtered/moving/cycling water… thing… that my other two cats (one is 3 and one is 12) and my Lhasa drink out of, would I be able to put it into that water? I change the water every 4-7 days, would the Methyl-b12 degrade during that time? Could it be filtered out completely or deactivated by a charcoal filter (which I can remove)? Would I be better off mixing it into Willy’s food daily instead?

Thank you all for all that you contribute to this site and the hope you gave to me (and give to others)!

Stephanie and Willy

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Welcome to the FDMB Family Stephanie and Willy,

First off I have 11 cats only one of which is a diabetic and not a single one of them would touch the prescription stuff. So everyone here eats what the diabetic eats which is just plain old fashioned Friskies pate flavors. More specifically Turkey and Giblets, Mixed Grill, Poultry Platter, Country Style Dinner, and Mariner's Catch.

One thing that will make hometesting more pleasant for both you guys and Willy is low carb treats. With Maxwell I use just plain boiled chicken cut into little bites. At first he was a struggle to test since I adopted him as a diabetic from this very board, so with no history together he was a squirmy worm. But once he figured out he got treats after each poke he now comes running to be tested.

Secondly Congrats on home testing, but since you are testing at home there is no reason to keep hauling Willy back and forth to the vet's for testing as they can use your numbers at home for making dosing adjustments as those are going to be truer numbers than those at the obtained at the vet's while Willy is understress.

And to be quite honest...unless there is something else going on health wise with him the dose he is currently on is way too high. But if it is being based on his numbers at the vet's then it has been based on numbers that are falsely elevated due to stress. If you have some numbers that you can post that might help us better to help Willy.

I'm sure others will be chiming in shortly with a ton of links for you to check out. But I wanted to welcome you to the best place on Earth that you never wanted to be but will be so blessed to have found.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Hi Stephanie and welcome to FDMB.

You are doing a great job and need to trust your instincts. The Fancy Feast is a very good diet, many of us feed our cats that food. Friskies is another good food. Right now your cat is very hungry because he is not regulated. That is normal, so until he his, keep feeding him the amount you are feeding.

I am concerned about the amount of insulin that you are giving. 4 units twice a day is a very high dose. Most cats on this site are only on 1 or 2 units twice a day. There is a condition called Somogyi rebound that can occur when too much insulin is given. In order to protect itself from becoming hypoglycemic, the body produces extra glucose and therefore the BG readings are higher. That may be what is occurring with your cat. You may want to consider starting over at 1 unit twice a day and gradually increasing it over a period of weeks until you find the optimal dose, especially since you are now hometesting. If an increase is needed, only raise it by 1/2 unit. Once you find the optimal dose, you will find that Willie's BG levels will become more stable and his appetite will decrease.

You can purchase the methy B12 from most health food stores or order online. If you have a Vitamin Shoppe near you, that is where I buy mine. You do not need to get it from your vet, nor need your vet's permission to give it to Willie. I just add it to my cat's food and he eats it up. It is usually in a small tablet form that you can crush and add to food. Just make sure that it is Methylcobalamin and not cyanocobalamin. The cyanocobalamin does not help with any type of neuropathy. Cyanocobalamin is the usually ingredient for B12 that you can find anywhere that vitamins are sold.

Keep the filter in the water - that is healthier for your pets anyway.

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Hi Stephanie! Welcome!

Willy sounds just like my Bandit, who I am convinced is part raccoon with the way he scavenges and gets into trouble. He used to be obese, and cannot control his food impulses. Before his diabetes was regulated, he acted like he was starving all the time, knocking over the garbage, eating anything he could get into, even snatching food off of peoples plates. My vet told me to feed him extra food and not worry about weight loss until he was regulated. It's true that losing a pound or two if the cat is slightly overweight can help reduce insulin needs (reducing Bandit's food from 3 cans of Fancy Feast to 2.5 a day dropped his BG enough to send him into remission), but he needs to be regulated first. Then you can worry about that extra pound. Willy wil act less hungry once he's regulated.

There are lots of treats you can give him to help with home testing. If there's a petsmart near you, they sell Beefeaters freeze dried chicken and salmon treats that are diabetic safe. Or as others have suggested, boiled chicken or fish is an option as well.

I agree that his dose of insulin may be too high. Most cats do not need 4 units of insulin, especially if he's on a low carb wet diet. Bandit was 13-14 lbs when he started insulin, and he never needed more than 1u. Too much insulin often looks the same as too little insulin on BG, since the cat's body dumps glucose into the blood to compensate for the overdose.

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Hi there and welcome. Before saying you have been giving too much insulin, I think I'd like to see your numbers. You have been doing minicurves, yes? While I agree that your dose is high for most cats, there are those rare exceptions that need a higher dose.

I haven't been on the board for a long time, and I don't come here regularly since my diabetic (in remission after 10 days) passed away a few years ago. But I'm sure there are many here who can help you with the spreadsheets - you may also want to check out the insulin support group for Lantus users (if you haven't found it already). Willy is lucky to have you - Laura

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Just wanted to say hello and welcome. I'm sure you're already figuring out that you've come to the best place for help with your diabetic cat. I knew next to nothing at first about diabetes and was overwhelmed and stressed. This forum and following the great advice/protocol really helped me turn my cat Max's health around.

From reading your intro, I understand that your vet does a fructosamine test when he/she checks Willie's BG #'s. A fructosamine is an average of the BG over a period of time (days) and I don't believe is affected by vet stress for this reason. If the vet is just testing BG with a regular blood test that can often be affected by vet stress and can be much higher. You're probably safest basing dosing decisions on your home testing and increasing .25 unit increments if needed.

I feed Max Fancy Feast Classic, which is low carb wet food. We had been on Science Diet M/D dry that the vet recommended, but Max's health really turned around with the diabetes when we switched to the low carb web food. Like others have said, an unregulated cat is a lot hungrier because their bodies cannot metabolize the food they are eating. I would let Willie eat what he needs until he is better regulated. Once he's regulated, you can think about cutting back his food intake if needed.

It's great that you are home testing and it sounds like Willie's #'s are much better than they were (yay!). Before raising his dose, I would suggest you check out the Lantus forum (insulin support group on this site), which has users all using your same insulin. There are also really helpful "sticky" info pages on the forum with lots of great information about regulating your kitty using Lantus. I would also suggest, if you're interested, setting up a spreadsheet through google where you can track Willie's BG #'s from your home testing. Sounds like you have a lot of great data from the testing you've been doing. If you put it in the spreadsheet, it gets organized in a nice, understandable way and you can share it with users on this forum who are trying to help you and Willie (e.g. Max's spreadsheet is linked in my signature).

Here are the links:
Lantus Support Group - viewforum.php?f=9
Spreadsheet How To - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Willie is so lucky to have such a dedicated mama taking care of him.

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

@Muse’s momma

First off, thank you for your welcome and encouragement.

My other kitties would ever touch the prescription stuff either, but Willy has always had a problem eating anything so we were surprised when he turned it down… however, I wasn’t so surprised when I actually read the label… YUCK!

Willy doesn’t mind his home testing much as long as we take from his pads. I hold him and give him lots of love-- he’s always been a huge snuggler so getting 5 minutes of undivided and totally devoted attention does him wonders. I think it also helps that we test him in the same room we feed him in. He is such a voracious eater and eats very quickly that we keep him separated from the rest of our herd during feeding times for everyone’s well being. When I walk into the bathroom and call him he comes running no fuss at all.

We have done treats that were low carb, gluten free but he nearly takes our fingers off and then becomes really upset and frantic when we don’t give him more, so we thought it may not be worth it since he doesn’t seem to mind being tested as long as someone is petting him.

The current dose is based on his last 2 fructosamine tests and the numbers we have gotten and given to our vet on the 3 curves we have done thus far. I would not be surprised if his dose was/is wrong. That was another thing I was hoping to learn when I joined the forums! Everyone is so kind and knowledgeable. My vet does the best she can, but there's so many factors involved--- I know my husband and I still feel completely helpless and overwhelmed a lot of the time. When we started "over" with her, she had us change his insulin dose (increased) AND his food. I was very uncomfortable doing this but my husband wanted to try it because she's been the most knowledgeable person we have spoken to so far... when Willy got sick (throwing up and diarrhea), we didn't know what was causing it--- the EXACT reasons I didn't want to make both changes at once! It was the food, that prescription stuff is nasty.


@ Lisa

Hello! And thank you for the welcome.

He has always has an appetite and would snap up anything he was given. Though, looking back, I actually wonder if maybe he’s always been diabetic and we were just too naïve to recognize it until he became so sick (DKA). He was diagnosed in July of last year and we started at 1 unit and have slowly crept to the 4 that we are at now. We have never increased by more than half of a unit at a time and never more often than once every other week (we took a very, very passive approach before we got this new vet).

Thank you for the description of the B-12. For some reason, I thought it might be a liquid (I don’t know why, I had a B-12 deficiency for awhile and was taking it sublingually in pill form). I am going to check the organic store so I'm happy I know what to look for. I brought the nerve damage up to my husband last night and he's pretty upset because we've agreed he has it to some extent (maybe not severely, but it's definitely noticeable). I feel so horrible-- I really wish I would known sooner.


@ Julia

Oh my goodness, your Bandit is adorable! Willy sounds just like your Bandit. As I told Lisa, I am wondering if Willy has always been diabetic, and maybe we just didn’t know because he’s always been this way with food. Our vet really wants us @3 cans but Willy just isn’t ok with that. He gets so frantic and upset it’s unnerving. He meows himself completely hoarse, too. We have convinced her to let us settled at 4 cans for the time being. He is manageable @4 for the most part and he’s maintained his weight @15lbs. She is really pushing us to cut his calories though, so I thought there might be something out there that’s a healthy filler that is low calorie so I can remove a tsp or tbs of food a day. I know for dogs, you can do green beans. I just feel like I'm doing something "wrong" by not listening to the vets suggestions even though I know its not necessarily the best idea in my gut.


@ Laura

Thank you so much for your support. I am so sorry to hear about your kitty. I will definitely check out the Lantus support group when I have a chance. I have done a total of 3 minicurves since Willy was diagnosed and have had 2 fructosamine tests with my current vet and 2 from my old vet. Willy isn’t luck to have us, we are lucky we have him, seriously, he has done so much good for our fur family.


@holly

I still feel overwhelmed and stressed a lot of the time. I just want to do right by Willy and give him the best quality of life I can.

Thank you for the information about the spreadsheets and the Lantus support group! I look forward into looking into that soon! I am doing a curve again today, I will post the 4 I have when I complete it and have a moment to log back on and hopefully get a spreadsheet set up early next week.

I love feeding him Fancy Feast. After he came out of DKA and we met with our vet, it was the first thing I asked about. The vet called his friend that's some sort of animal hormone specialist (I'm not sure what the name for it is, I'm sorry), and I'm pretty sure the guy accessed this site! We were given Binky's list and were told any food less than 10 carbs. We went to Petco and sat with a calculator figuring out various daily values of many foods (it took us at least an hour) and we settled on Fancy Feast because it was grain free (we already fed grain free for all our pets) and the most cost efficient for its quality. It is also readily available and we can find it in most places. We try really hard to plan ahead (we buy a weeks worth of food at a time) but sometimes we do the wrong math or something so being able to pick it up wherever/whenever was an important factor to us.


Thank you everyone! I will definitely post the curves I have done when I finish the one I am doing today and I will hopefully be able to set up a spreadsheet early next week.

-Stephanie&Willy

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Good Evening!

I am working on the spreadsheet for Willy, but our records are a little disorganized so it's taking a bit. Here are 2 curves I have done. I am missing the dates (I have them down on a chart in his file but we're moving some things around so I can't get to them atm). These were both done ~9 days after increasing his insulin dosage (vet preference).

@3.5 units
AMPS 272
+4 388
+9 325
PMPS 239

@4.0 units
AMPS 273
+4 261
+8 299
PMPS 296

Today (4 units)
AMPS 305
+3 253
+6 287
+9 187
PMPS 246
+2 341
+3 359 (was concerned about +2 so I stayed up and tested to see if he was still going up or if he was on the way down)

I have never checked his BG after his evening shot before, and I am really concerned about the high numbers. He was fed and given his shot 12hrs at the same time that he normally gets it (and 12hrs after the morning). He is acting completely normal, so that's good. I am going to retest tomorrow evening and see if the results are similar. Once I get his SS set up (going to get it done tomorrow) I plan to join the Lantus group. I appreciate any input or advice anyone may have.

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

You can look at Bo's spreadsheet for more information on his history but by and large, we started with a dose that was higher than what was recommended on this board. I was going by the vet's recommendation for a while but soon realized around the time he had a seizure, that what I read here was a better way to treat diabetes. At the beginning, I changed his diet and started insulin. Then we increased insulin by large amounts which causes his shed to fill very quickly. I think that once his body's shed filled and with the change in diet, that contributed to the seizure because he did not require as much. In hindsight, I would start with 1 unit twice a day, keep the dose for several days, home test before every shot and whenever I can throughout the day, change his diet to high protein, and monitor closely. I think that if I had followed the recommendations on this board earlier, we would not have had the hypo at all but at least I was ready for it based on what they tell you here. Shortly after the seizure, he went off insulin and seems to be diet controlled so far. In fact, I checked his BG earlier today and it was 56! Until the insulin gets regulated, Willy be hungry. I would not worry too much about the weight while you are trying to regulate the insulin. With a change to high protein diet, once it gets regulated, then Willy won't eat as much. My 4 cats eat only 4 5.5 oz cans per day now. I have one that is 20 pounds (the OTJ kitty), one that is 13, and two around 11 pounds. No one is hungry until it is time to eat the next meal. Bo needs to lose 1-2 pounds but has not done it so far. That is something that we need to work on. Keep reading all the posts here. i think I learned something new every time I read them.

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Hello from another Willie mama!!

Everybody here has provided lots of good insights, so I won't repeat all that. You've started on hometesting... yay! And you're feeding good foods... double yay!! I actually carry Binky's food chart and another one done on here recently each time I go to the store for pet food with good choices highlighted, then I label them when I get home with the carb percentage so I always know what I'm grabbing.

One observation I will throw in... I think it would be good if you could get some PM spot checks in where you can... at least a before bed test every night for awhile. When diabetic cats first start insulin, their livers are all a mess and they interpret high numbers as "normal." When the insulin produces a lower number, the liver panics because it no longer sees low numbers as "normal," it sees them as dangerous, so it releases stored glucose and hormones to bring the numbers up quickly. We call this a bounce. Our kitties are in "liver training school," and as they have more and more lower numbers, the bounces become less frequent and their durations become much shorter. What concerns me is that it is possible that Willy may be going lower in the PM cycle, which may produce a bounce by the next morning, so you don't catch the lower numbers and assume the dose is safe, or that it isn't working, so you go higher. A fructosamine test at the vet will give you a two week average of Willy's BG values, but it won't tell you how high or low he want at given points during that 2 week period. Some of our cats are divers... They can easily drop 100 points per hour in a cycle. For example, if you head over to Lantus Land, check out the spreadsheet of our diving champion Mannie. Gabby is another cat that can drop very quickly in the early parts of a cycle.

When we catch those low numbers early in the cycle, many of us will use higher carb foods to slow the drop down... we tend to see that the slower the drop, the slower the inevitable rise. But the key is catching it. Now, it is entirely possible that Willy isn't going low, and there may be some underlying issue that is keeping his numbers high. Has he had a dental recently? Many people have found that the need for a dental treatment will keep numbers high, as will any underlying infection or health issues. My Willie had a skin condition when diagnosed that we didn't get a handle on until mid February. But when he got on the right meds, his numbers dropped dramatically.

I would recommend introducing yourself over in the Lantus forum. If Willy's dose is too high and you'd like advice on where to go from where you're at, we have many great advisors that can help you formulate an action plan that will help you work on finding the right dose while keeping Willy safe from both DKA and hypo. I have literally trusted them with Willie's life before, and I don't want to even think about where we would be without them! I'd recommend checking out the sticky posts over there, and printing them off for future reference. There is a TON of useful information, and it is a lot to digest and retain all at once!

One question... how old is your insulin at this point, and are you using the pens or the vials? While I've seen a few folks post here that they have been able to get several months out of a vial, most of us find that the insulin remains effective for 45-60 days tops. So if your insulin is older than that, there is a good chance it may have petered out. When that happens, the insulin will generally not look any different. It may be perfectly clear and free of any floaties or other contaminates, but it can still be ineffective.

I still remember how stressed and overwhelmed I felt when Willie was diagnosed, and as we spent 2 months with no real impact as we figured out what else was going on. You have already taken several important steps in making sure that you are the best advocate you can be for Willy's care. The Lantus protocol we follow here isn't necessarily everybody's cup of tea, but I can honestly say that it has not only helped Willie tremendously, but it has kept me sane. We have a detailed plan that we are following, it is giving us results, and we have folks that share our every success and setback along the way, virtually any time day or night. I can't imagine dealing with this without the family we have here.

I am looking forward to learning more about you and Willy! I hope you can get a pic up soon (while reading all about FD!! :lol: :lol: ) So curious to see if Willy and Willie are dopplegangers in name only!! :lol: :lol:

 

Re: Willy's hello (long intro, 2 questions at the bottom)

Yay for Willy-ie kitties! I don't know if you can see it, but I put a little pic of him as my avatar. He's missing one of his canines so he always has this funny expression (it looks perturbed). I don't know how to post pictures other than that yet but I will someday (in the appropriate place ofc).

We use viles for our Lantus. There has been the occasion where my husband will forget to put the vile back in the fridge and it sits out for a few hours, we aren't sure why he, specifically, is forgetful on this one thing but we have our theories. The vet said it's probably fine for a few hours (tho not ideal) because our kitchen doesn't have any sort of direct light and our house is cool. Just watch Willy to make sure it's still effective (now we can home test). She tries not to have us replace if we don't need to (2-3 months) because insulin is like $115 here. Hubby left one out overnight recently (and had dropped a brand new one like 2 weeks before) so he got to go to the pharmacy alone for a refill. The one we have now is 2 weeks old and he hasn't left it out or dropped! :lol:

We were replacing every 6-8 weeks depending on how Willy acted (will be testing now). When the insulin is losing its effectiveness, Willy starts sleeping in the bathroom. He ONLY sleeps in there when he's having a bad day, and generally, if it's just grumpy cattitude he will come out (and stay out) when someone comes "over the gate" (we have 3 rooms including that bathroom gated off and set up for our cats have their own space away from the dog). If it's the insulin, we don't see him until its food time or you call him. This isn't scientific by any means, but Willy has a lot of predictable behavior and anytime it happens we have usually just said a few days prior "oh we have to replace the insulin very soon."

I don't know if it matters, but Willy has been being tx'd since July of last year. He started at 1u and moved up to 4u. Generally, he was on a new dose (increase of 0.5) for about a month before increasing again (by .5). It was sometimes longer, sometimes we would only increase the PM dose or AM dose. I am going to swing by my vets office on Friday and see what records they have because I can't find my box (I think it may have accidentally migrated to storage).

My husband and I are becoming more active in home testing--- it used to be really hard to make time because it would literally take us 30min-1hr to get one done... it was a mess. Our biggest problem was juggling all the items we needed for the test. I have been inspired as of lately to really take control and not just sit by feeling overwhelmed and guilty. I can do the tests by myself on the first try now! I am also helping my husband learn to do it ALONE too. He really wants to help and he's a gentle, loving man (and Willy's favorite) but sometimes gets impatient waiting for Willy to settle into a comfortable position and feels its more time efficient to chase him all over the kitchen. :? Is it ok to be taking from the foot? I know many do ear pricks but he goes completely ballistic (could care less about his feet though).

Our vet wanted us doing AMPS > ~+4hrs >PMPS. From these numbers he looks better than he actually is. The last few days has been a huge wake up call because it turns out he is much higher in general than we thought. We are really upset for not getting involved sooner but trying not to let it affect us so we can continue to do the best we can.

We made a major error yesterday that luckily turned out fine. My husband said he didn't give Willy his AM shot. I tested his BG and it was 500+ so I gave him a reduced dose (2u) @+2. It turns out my husband meant he may have MISSED with the shot (fur) or may not have- he wasn't sure. There was no fluid in Willy's fur but my husband said he smelled insulin on his hand after petting him (does insulin have a smell?). Anyways, we watched him diligently and Willy's numbers were comfortably in the 100s until the evening when they went back up after dinner. We gave him a reduced dose in the evening (I'm not sure why we did this). We were lucky and the mis-communication will NEVER happen again. nailbite_smile

The B12 is helping him a lot, it seems. He actually flinches when we prick his back pads now the same as he does with the front. We weren't getting a reaction at all before-- not even a jerk or tensing in his foot or leg.

I plan to hop on over to the Lantus forum tomorrow before grooming the dog because I really do need some help with his dosing. confused_cat Is there any particular way I should introduce myself or any information that might be helpful to include?

My current vet gave Willy a clean bill of health when we saw her at the beginning of February (other than still having really high BG). She did NOT, however, want to vaccinate him (rabies) because his immune system may be compromised due to his diabetes, he was vaccinated regularly in the past, and he is an indoor ONLY cat (all of our pets are). I didn't complain, I don't like to over-vaccinate anyways but is this normal?

I go to a small clinic, they typically only have 2 vets there and they seem to rotate every 2 weeks. The other vet at the clinic seems to..... advocate..... dental health..... A LOT. It's probably a good thing, but she often jumps straight to dental being the cause of all issues ever period exclamation point. When Willy was first in DKA, dental infection was her first thing; diabetes was never considered until we went back in the second day insisting it was something else and she was reluctant to look further but I pushed. Even after she told us he was in DKA she said it might be the infection causing it. My vet says he could use a cleaning but it's really not necessary right now and he's not too bad. If we are concerned, to try a tartar spray. I don't supposed you've heard anything about it (is it ok for diabetics? is it effective?)

@Holly, thank you for the link to the spreadsheet! I've been entering data, but I am still missing some things (will enter them when I can!)!

I appreciate the the input everyone has given us! I feel like we're started to get on the right track of a very long trip and it's a huge relief!

-Stephanie & Willy

 

Hi, Stephanie!! Willy is a cutie!!! You've posed some great questions. I'd encourage you to just open a thread over in Lantus Land. Typically, we open a thread each day, and you'll notice we use a specific format for our daily "condos," with the subject line providing key details to our advice givers so they can quickly assess if anybody needs help when they log on. I would just open a thread introducing yourself and Willy, and would provide a link to this thread so that folks can get all the background without you having to repeat yourself!

Most folks here do ear pokes. I recall reading reasons why it is preferred, but I don't recall where. My one concern would be that those are the same paws that go into a litter box, so my gut reaction (not based on anything actually scientific) would be concern for any bacteria he might get into any open spots on them. Hopefully, others can provide insight.

One thing that makes ear pokes go MUCH more smoothly is the giving of treats after each poke, successful or not. I use Purebites freeze dried chicken treats or bonito/tuna flakes. They are low-carb and totally FD friendly. There is a post here that outlines several great options. Willie isn't necessarily excited about pokes, but he will definitely sit still for them now... and if he knows he's low, he'll get on the couch, then look at me, then the testing supplies... almost like he wants to show off his good numbers! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your husband sounds a lot like me. I swear, I think I did everything wrong that one could with my first vial of insulin! Left it out, dropped it, kept it on the fridge door, you name it! It is good that you are very aware of the signs of the insulin petering out. When you are ready for your next refill, I'd suggest asking your vet for a script for the Lantus Solostar Pens. They come in a 5 pack of 3ml pens for around $200, though many have found that Costco, Sams, and even outpatient pharmacies at local hospitals will sell them one pen at a time. While the upfront cost is higher, there is much less waste... each pen ends up generally lasting at least a month, and many folks do use them longer. Drops the cost per month a bit. While humans use them with a pen needle that attaches to the pen, they don't work for cats as you can only dose in 1u increments, and the pens are not accurate at the low doses we are generally giving. Instead, we just use the same syringes one uses with a vial and inserts it into the rubber tip of the pen. Essentially, the pen just becomes a mini-vial.

You should definitely look over the stickies in Lantus Land as they provide a wealth of great information about the insulin, the dosing protocol we follow, etc. I found it helpful to print everything out and keep it in a presentation folder with slicky sheets, though a binder would work too. I still have to go back and read them to make sure I know what I'm doing!

Willie doesn't really have any teeth, so dentals aren't an issue for us, but many folks have found that the need for one will increase BG#s. If you continue to have problems regulating Willy, you may want to look into that possibility.

So glad you found us! This really is a very empowering place... I feel so much more in control of Willie's care and feel much more secure knowing I'm making good choices for him.

Hope to see you in Lantus Land soon!