Will Prozinc last over night in the syringe?

[Robert and Frisky]

Will Prozinc last over night in the syringe? The reason I ask is I always go ahead and draw out the insulin and get the syringe read so after I check her blood I can give her the shot while I have her close by. Tonight though when I checked her she was at 165(she has never been that low at the end ov the 12 hour cycle). I did not give her the shot but I have it in the syringe. I put it back in the fridge and wanted to know if it would be ok to use in the morning or should I go ahead and get rid of it?

Thanks

 

[Rob & Harley (GA)]

It is usually not recommended to pre fill syringes, but if it is refrigerated and you use it tomorrow I think it will be ok.

It's too expensive to waste.

 

[Anonymous]

yes and don't forget to roll the syringe the same as you would roll the vial.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

Thanks. It will get used for the next AM injection. As I said that is the 1st time she has ever been that low at the end of the 12 hout cycle. I had read on here the you don't give the injection if it is below 200. She is on 4u of ProZinc atm.

Thanks again.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Hey Robert,
If you like stick around and feel free to ask for input on your sitch. 4u sounds like a high-ish dose.

Are you guys newly diagnosed?

Make sure to read the PZI Sticky and you should also read our working draft of our newbie checklist here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31358

Make sure to post with any questions you have. The squeaky wheel gets the grease here.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

Hey Robert,

Are you guys newly diagnosed?

She was diagnosed back in July. The vet started her at 1u and increased by a half till we got to 3u. She stayed at 3u for about 2 months then her numbers started staying high I took her back to the vet but they could not find anything wrong so she increased it to 4u and everything has been fine sense then. I have been doing all the curves at home except for the first 2. I am planning on doing her next curv on Sunday and the calling the vet on Tuesday. I have been checking this board ever sense she was diagnosed I have learned a lot in a short time. I am working on the SS now. I have my own SS I came up with to take to the vet with me but I am working on the ones like everyone here uses.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Robert,
Until I switched to ProZinc from PZI I did it in my own SS anyway [but I never really asked for dosing help]. My own SS was kind of cool when I uploaded it into google I was able to use google's charting widget to make the google finance style chart of the numbers. It just helps the folks here if you want dosing advice to have it in something familiar. In a pinch though you can upload your SS into google docs and it will convert it, then share it for anybody with a link.

If you were doing 1/2 unit increases that's much better too than full unit increases that we often see recommended.

Good luck, let us know if we can help.

 

[Anonymous]

robert it does'nt have to be an all or nothing dose. if the number is lower than what you are used to seeing...but high enough to want to shoot, like 180 say, you can cut your dose dramatically. we'd have to see your numbers to know what you have been shooting 4u into but you can definetly lower dose instead of missing a shot.

 

[judy and squamee(GA)]

I am curious about this syringe thing. If we squirt insulin back into the vial when we are first measuring it out ( to get rid of air bubbles or to get to the exact dose) why couldn't you just squirt it back into the vial if it has been kept covered and unused?

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Judy,
One can do that too.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

Thanks everyone. I also published her SS. I started it with mid November but she has been on insulin sense July.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Would you like some input on your sitch?

The next thing might be to make a profile too which will help us know a little more about your kitty [like what's she eating, does she go outside, other medical issues, other pets, other questions asked in the profile template and more]. Instructions for that can be found in the tech support forum just like the spreadsheet.

Do you have any thoughts about using U100 syringes? At a minimum with the U40s you can do .5u increments.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

Would you like some input on your sitch?

The next thing might be to make a profile too which will help us know a little more about your kitty [like what's she eating, does she go outside, other medical issues, other pets, other questions asked in the profile template and more]. Instructions for that can be found in the tech support forum just like the spreadsheet.

Do you have any thoughts about using U100 syringes? At a minimum with the U40s you can do .5u increments.

Thanks.

Any input would be good. I will do the profile next. As for the other questions. I have been feeding her FF but i am in the process of switching her to wellness and SophistaCat. She gets no dry food. She is an inside cat(She won't even lay in a window if its open). No other medical issues and no other pets. She also has not been spade.

The vet wants to spade her but with her age(11) and the fact she does not go out I don't won't to put her through the operation. For the time being I would prefer to use the U40's.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

On the spay thing I think even if it is late it may help prevent certain issues [cancer maybe]?? Might be something to research.

I know with H's mom when she got old we had her spayed.

Your's would be the first "intact" DM cat I've come across [that I've know about].

How long have you been on the LC wet food only diet?

My first observation is probably what you already know which she's doing good to the point now that you are going to have to start cutting back on the dose. How much you need to at this point is unknown - only time and capturing the data will you know. And ultimately it might help you to make smaller increment changes which the U100 really help with. For now you can dose in .5u increments and you can even try to eyeball .25u increments with the U40 syringes. But again the U100s help make those smaller increments more consistent.

I don't know what your schedule is like, but I cannot encourage you enough to get the pre-shot BG prior to every test. It's really impossible to know how much insulin to give a cat without knowing prior to that shot what their BG value is. Also there is the potential to give too much insulin without knowing what that value is.

Speaking of schedule, what is your schedule like? Are you around during the day or do you have someone else you cohabit with that is there during the day? Looks like you might be a bit of a knight owl? :smile:

Then once you have the PS always captured, we like to concentrate on the +3 and the +6 then maybe the hours adjoining those hours. And if you can get a complete curve [every 2 hours for 12 hours] here and there that's bonus.

The +3 coincides with the general time of one hour after onset for PZI and the +6 coincides with the general nadir time for PZI.

I guess what I'm getting at is we need to optimize your testing efforts. :smile:

As you decrease you will have to decide if you want to try more consistent dosing or something more like sliding scale or variable dosing. The SS or variable do not try to take advantage of any "overlap." Some cats seem to do better with consistent dosing while others find variable or sliding scale more matches their sitch.

The bottom line is that as the numbers go lower you need to back off on the dose as you have already done. So this is a good thing that you have intuitively started to experiment with.

Not sure if any of this helps. Let me/us know if we can answer any specific questions.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

How long have you been on the LC wet food only diet?

I cut out the dry back about the 3rd week in July right after she was DX.

I don't know what your schedule is like, but I cannot encourage you enough to get the pre-shot BG prior to every test. It's really impossible to know how much insulin to give a cat without knowing prior to that shot what their BG value is. Also there is the potential to give too much insulin without knowing what that value is.

I do try to do that as much as I can but there are some mornings she just won't let me. The other morning I tried to do it and she hissed me and then tried to scratch me. She has never done that before. She was fine as long as I was petting but as soon as she saw me grab the lance and meter that was it she wanted no part of it. I never had a problem till she got an infection after her last curve that was done at the vet's office. Ever sense then it like her ears are me sensitive. The best luck I have is if I can catch her while she is asleep. It catches he off guard. ;-)

Speaking of schedule, what is your schedule like? Are you around during the day or do you have someone else you cohabit with that is there during the day? Looks like you might be a bit of a knight owl? :smile:

I am a knight owl but I work 8 to 5. I do get to go home for lunch some days . I live alone and she will not come to anyone else but me. If someone comes to visit she runs and hides and will not come out till they are gone, So I am on my own when it comes to this.

Then once you have the PS always captured, we like to concentrate on the +3 and the +6 then maybe the hours adjoining those hours. And if you can get a complete curve [every 2 hours for 12 hours] here and there that's bonus.

The +3 coincides with the general time of one hour after onset for PZI and the +6 coincides with the general nadir time for PZI.

I guess what I'm getting at is we need to optimize your testing efforts. :smile:

I am trying to get there. But the way she acts sometimes I feel like I am torturing her, But I know it needs to be done.

As you decrease you will have to decide if you want to try more consistent dosing or something more like sliding scale or variable dosing. The SS or variable do not try to take advantage of any "overlap." Some cats seem to do better with consistent dosing while others find variable or sliding scale more matches their sitch.

The bottom line is that as the numbers go lower you need to back off on the dose as you have already done. So this is a good thing that you have intuitively started to experiment with.

Not sure if any of this helps. Let me/us know if we can answer any specific questions.

I am trying to stay as consistent as I can I even switched the time I get up in the mornings. I used to get up at 7am est, feed her, then go to work. When I got home at about 5:15pm est I would feed her then. But now I get up between 5 and 5:30am est so i can keep the feeding and insulin at consistent times.

Thanks for the input. I hope to get better at this. I have learned a lot in a short time because of this board, But i still have a long way to go.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

I cut out the dry back about the 3rd week in July right after she was DX.

OK then all the benefits of that should be resolved by now in the numbers.

I do try to do that as much as I can but there are some mornings she just won't let me. The other morning I tried to do it and she hissed me and then tried to scratch me. She has never done that before. She was fine as long as I was petting but as soon as she saw me grab the lance and meter that was it she wanted no part of it. I never had a problem till she got an infection after her last curve that was done at the vet's office. Ever sense then it like her ears are me sensitive. The best luck I have is if I can catch her while she is asleep. It catches he off guard. ;-)

I have a couple tips. #1 you might want to try the clothespin trick: http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm . My other suggestion is feliway - some folks have had success with it calming their cat. I'm not a big fan of exposing myself or my animal to a scent all the time but if it help get the testing more under control then I think the benefit would outweigh any of *my* perceived issues with it.

Also it is important you reward her after testing. Many cats here go bonkers over the cat crack otherwise known as Liv-a-Littles freeze dried chicken. There are also generics of this too that I've seen. And they are low carb Once she gets the idea that testing = reward you might hopefully put a chink in her armor [and weapons ;-) ].

And I believe in testing them in their "safe place" like a bed or somewhere where they hang out and spend the most of their time. This usually first requires removing the hiding places [like stuffing stuff under beds etc] so that they drop the hiding behavior and the idea that they can escape you [get the advantage of you].

I am a knight owl but I work 8 to 5. I do get to go home for lunch some days . I live alone and she will not come to anyone else but me. If someone comes to visit she runs and hides and will not come out till they are gone, So I am on my own when it comes to this.

Removing the hiding places can help with the hiding.

I am trying to get there. But the way she acts sometimes I feel like I am torturing her, But I know it needs to be done.

I'm hopeful you guys can work something out. If you cannot then posting in Health with a descriptive subject like "need testing tips for fractious cat" should get you a lot more input.

I am trying to stay as consistent as I can I even switched the time I get up in the mornings.

When I said "consistent" I said "consistent dosing" which is basically a type of dosing with PZI where one tries to vary the dose amount as little as possible. I wasn't calling for you to be more consistent time wise. But on the time issue I would try to not move things around more than 1/2 hour at a time per cycle in the beginning. Ultimately PZI/ProZinc is very flexible time wise. Once I got things under control I would frequently dose and hour early or late [occasionally even more] without any consequences - but that's more intermediate to advanced level.

Thanks for the input. I hope to get better at this. I have learned a lot in a short time because of this board, But i still have a long way to go.

I think I'm still learning.

Do check back with us [anytime but hopefully] in no more than a week - OK? And ask for input if you would like some then.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

I have a couple tips. #1 you might want to try the clothespin trick: http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm . My other suggestion is feliway - some folks have had success with it calming their cat. I'm not a big fan of exposing myself or my animal to a scent all the time but if it help get the testing more under control then I think the benefit would outweigh any of *my* perceived issues with it.

Thanks for the clothespin trick sugestion it worked great

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Awesome! Make sure to give Frisky reward too after testing so the message will hopefully sink in and maybe the clothes pins will be unneeded eventually.

 

[Robert and Frisky]

I do. I found a treat she likes a lot call Beefeaters Salmon Freeze Dried got it at PetSmart for $6.49. I give her 1 before and 1 after.