Will be starting on ProZinc tonight

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sengibous

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Kale was diagnosed Friday as diabetic. Since my funds were limited he was put on Humulin N. Today he was feeling too good so we back to the vet and he's now on ProZinc and will begin that tonight. He also got some fluids while there and a more comprehensive blood work. We'll know bloodwork results tomorrow. Anything I should be aware of with the ProZinc? After the Humulin I'd just like to be more aware this time around with what it will do.

Stephanie and Kale
 
hi Stephanie and Kale!
Welocome to PZI!
First off Humilin has a fast drop where PZI is slower to bring the numbers down
Put it to you like this, Humilin 's curve is like a V where PZI is like a smile
What does are you starting at?
We ususally recommend 1 unit depending on the preshot
What are you feeing Kale?
Are you home testing, and do you have everything you need to home test
You can get a kit from here sent to you if needed
WE HIGHLY recommend testing before every shot
I will let you answer the questions and be back shortly
 
I'm supposed to give him 2 u. We are currently home testing and have been for a couple days now. He's on fancy feast classic food. I believe we're starting with the 2 u because his preshot numbers tend to be in the 300 or 400 ranges.
 
Hi guys good to see you over here. :YMHUG:
I'm not one of the dosing experts. I am mostly a cheerleader here. I will say 2 units is a lot just starting out. I would probably go with 1 unit. We have a motto start out slow. Especially because of the fresh diet change & new insulin. You don't know how his body is going to react to ProZinc.

Did the vet supply you with u-40 needles? ProZinc is a u-40 insulin. Unlike other insulins it takes a different kind of needle. You can use u-100 needles, but you need to know the conversion chart to use u-100 with ProZinc.

U-40 needles will have a red cap & cover
U-100 will have a orange cap & cover. These needles are good for smaller doses.

Please tell us what needles you are using.
 
Hi Stephanie!
I'm glad to see you, and Kale, in PZI.
Jenn asked you a good, and very important question. Did you get new syringes with the Prozinc? If not, not a big deal, but we need to know that so that we can make sure the dose is right.

Like others already said, we usually like to start at 1u. Kale has actually had much better numbers the past two days on a dose lower than 2u of Humulin. Your Humulin data looks different than most other cats I have seen on Humulin. It seems to have lasted longer than normal with Kale, which can be a sign that the dose is too high. Usually it only lasts 8 hours or so, with the low point around 4 or 5 hours after the shot. Looks like Kale has been going lowest a little later than that.
For those reasons, I think a starting dose of Prozinc of 1u makes sense. If you try that for a couple of days, and the numbers get worse, it's really easy to increase in small increments to find a better dose.
We normally advise people when increasing to only do so in .25u steps. It could be that his "right dose" is someplace between 1u and 2u, and if you just jump over the right dose, it's harder to find it later. What can happen is that if the dose is too high, the numbers will get higher instead of lower, and it would make you think that more insulin is needed, when the opposite might be true. It's sounds confusing, I know!

How long has Kale been on the FF classics?

Carl
 
I do have the special needles! He's been on Fancy Feast since Saturday. I was wondering if that felt too high and will begin with 1 u tonight. The vet did a more comprehensive bloodwork today just to make sure we aren't dealing with something else besides just diabetes. Will know more tomorrow. I even had begun lowering the humulin before we switched over because in one day he went from 600 to 178 at one point. Someone had mentioned to me that once I change insulin to check here about dosing rather than taking the vet's recommendation so I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one questioning the dose. Numbers are definitely better but his activity level has become almost nonexistent which is why we're doing further testing. Not a ketone issue at this point according to the vet.
 
OK, I just went back to your Health thread and noticed you posted today that they did give you the U40 needles, and that they did more blood work. You also mentioned in that thread that he felt lousy, wasn't active, and you mentioned a "cold"? You were giving him amoxicillin, and you mentioned lysine? Is he on some sort of antibiotic right now? The reason I ask is that an infection of some sort can make the BG numbers higher, so that might also be a part of what you have been reading in those tests. Is he eating okay?

Carl
 
Welcome, Stephanie and Kale!

You've found a super bunch here in PZI! Hershey and I have been sooo thankful to have them!! Hershey was diagnosed Nov, 2011 and started ProZinc Jan, 2012. Some days I feel like we're super newbies and other days it's hard to remember before we started this dance.

When we first joined I spend a lot of time reading on this site - there's so much information to be gleaned! Oh, and I asked lots of questions...hmm...much like now - I spend a lot of time reading and asking questions :smile:

I see others have already hit most everything, so I'll just ditto the advice to 'start low and go slow'

Take care -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Good to see you made it over here to PZIville, Stephanie and Kale! Welcome! cat_pet_icon

Also glad to see so many folks suggest starting low with 1 unit. After you've settled in a bit and have a chance to check out a few others' spreadsheets, you'll see many of our kitties rarely reach as high as 2u. Some do, but by far not all! :lol:

Don't hesitate to ask any questions. You've found a great group of folks to help you along this wild and wonderful journey. :-D
 
Stephanie,
Just so everyone knows, what time is your normal shot time am and pm? We have a "breakfast club" that tends to be on just about when the sun is rising on the east coast, so the board is pretty busy then. We also have a "night owl" group who tend to never need sleep and are on in the late evenings. I alternate between the two groups because I work early one week and late the next (this is my wake up before sunlight week).
If we have an idea when you will be shooting, and maybe looking for help with that, it'll let us know when to check in...
As for me, just about time to hit the hay....tomorrow is my last workday this week, then I'm off for 4 days so I'll be with the late night crowd after tonight.
Carl
 
Welcome. I'm Michelle and my kitty is Charley. These people are fabulous. You came to a great place. I can't give you any dosing advice, but if you need advice on how to deal with a difficult vet or how to train your cat to come to you for his shots- I'm your gal.
 
Hi Stephanie - and Welcome!

I'm Lu-Ann and my boy Grayson has been on Prozinc since Jan 13th. He was diagnosed on the 3rd/4th, and the vet initially suggested 2 units, but we held off and did the food change first (to Fancy Feast Classics), then started at 1 unit. Several people report dropping 100 points just with the food change! This is a good idea even if Kale has been on the FF for a couple of days.

Grayson used to make his insulin last longer than the 10-12 hours most cats see. We had some extended cycles - as much as 24 hours several times, so we ended up reducing from 1 unit down to .2 units (gradually, of course!). We had a ketone scare, and we increased rapidly after Feb 23rd, so we're still trying to find a good number for him.

You'll find more collective knowledge here than you could possibly hope for. Please feel free to ask for help, shared experiences, whatever you need to make your transition to PZI as smooth as possible.

Again, Welcome!
 
Kale was initially treated for an upper respiratory. He's been on amoxicillin for 2 weeks now and has another 2 weeks worth of pills. Because he randomly gets stuffy noses (which is currently happening) and watery eyes and also was a humane society rescue, lysine has been recommended. The vet said to assume he has herpes (It feels so weird to say that but I know it's different in cats than humans). He hasn't been feeling good although he is alert. And I've seen a bit more movement him since we came home from the vet today. He did get some fluids while he was there. He's eating fine. When I give him his wet food he eats his whole portion.
We currently are shooting at 12pm and 12am (PST) so we'll be using the prozinc for the first time in about 1.5 hours. I'm much more likely to go to bed at 6 am rather than be waking up at 6am (I worked grave shift for too many years) and am definitely a night owl.
Sorry for the delayed response. I haven't been sleeping all that well the last few days and it hit me hard a few hours ago. I took a much needed nap.
Tomorrow we'll know even more once his comprehensive blood work comes back. At this point I feel like I can handle almost anything but there is one disease on the test that will break my heart if it comes back positive. Not sure I can handle dealing with FIP again. I had to put a 6 month old kitten down before because of it. Although this was a decade ago and a bit more is known about the disease now. It's times like this that I really wish I was still back in Pullman, WA with the Washington State University veterinary hospital. You really can't get much better veterinary care than there. Ahh to have one of the best vet schools and hospitals in the country at your disposal.

Thank you everyone for you responses, advice, and support.

Stephanie and kale
 
hi Stephanie,
Good luck today, I hope you get some good news fromthe vet and have
somegreat numbers for Kale!

Denise and shakes
 
Hi Stephanie,

It's Lydia and Sid and welcome to PZI. :-D :-D :-D

Good luck with the Prozinc. I would agree with everyone about starting at 1U. Sid was in the hospital being treated for DKA. He was receiving 1 U but the vet thought he would increase him a bit to 1.5 to bring his numbers down, but Sid had a very bad hypo episode where he dropped to 34 by +6. The problem was that he became nonresponsive and had to be put on a glucose drip. (Of course they were testing every 4 hours instead of more often and did not catch the drop or feed him to stop it but that is another story).

Sid's hypo episode is an example of what a big difference just 1/2 a dose can make. You can always increase the dose as you see how Kale does but he may respond very well to 1U. I also found that Sid started showing a better response to Prozinc about 45 days after he started - so yes it can take a little while for the body to adjust.
 
Still waiting to hear from the vet but it's still early here. Although I am seeing a bit of improvement in his activity level so that's good. Will keep you all updated as we get more info. I'm really wondering if the humulin was just too much and too harsh. We shall see.
 
Just wanted to say hello and welcome to PZI Stephanie and Kale.
My name is Angela and my cat is Henry aka Big Hen.
I agree with everyone else, start at no more than 1 unit. Since he has an URI and is still taking an antibiotic, that can affect his BG levels, usually higher and he may start getting lower numbers as the infection clears. And if you have just started feeding him FF classics that can also start bringing him down pretty quickly if hes been eating higher carb food.
I hope you get good news on all of Kale's tests and I'm glad he seems to be feeling better and a little more active.
 
flip_cat I just saw him cleaning himself! That's a big improvement to me! It's been awhile since I've seen that much even. Still waiting on news from the vet but I'm on the west coast and they still have a few hours before close. Just wanted to share that news because it made me sooooo happy to see!

Angela: We are going with the 1 u. I've already found that I trust the dosing advice given on here much more than my own vet. And Hi to you and Big Hen!
 
I don't know if anyone mentioned about running a curve, the more data you can collect the better people will be able to help you with your dose. It would be helpful if you could run some tests to find out what 1u is doing, if you could get +4, +6, +8 even.
 
I will be running those more frequently. Yesterday I was so tired I was about to collapse so that's why there's not as much info. Today I'm much better rested and will be providing that.
 
Hi Stephanie and Kale! Just wanted to say hello, i'm still trying to figure out Junior's plan as well. I have another cat, Johnny who is not diabetic but was diagnosed with herpes right after Junior's diabetes. I absolutely hate saying it....... there's usually the joke from whoever I tell, "that little *****"!!!!!! So embarassaing :roll: The worst part with Johnny is seeing him just down right sad all the time and bummed out about his eye. Junior had the smallest bit of discharge start a few weeks ago so he's getting the lysine too. There was no affect to his numbers that I could tell. I changed his dose of insulin the next day. I don't know anything about any other meds, just keep everyone here tuned in to everything going on.

Laura cat_pet_icon
 
:RAHCAT We're doing the HAPPY DANCE!!! No infectious diseases are present!!!!! Comprehensive blood work just showed the high glucose level (which we already knew), definitely no FIP!!!, no leukemia no nada!!! Also definitely no worry about DKA at this time. YAY!!!
 
sengibous said:
:RAHCAT We're doing the HAPPY DANCE!!! No infectious diseases are present!!!!! Comprehensive blood work just showed the high glucose level (which we already knew), definitely no FIP!!!, no leukemia no nada!!! Also definitely no worry about DKA at this time. YAY!!!

flip_cat Great News! dancing_cat
 
It's a HUGE relief! Sometimes I think the vet tries to make me more paranoid than I should be (and I'm already bad enough when it comes to my pet's health)....
 
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