Where else can I inject the insulin?

[AngelaY and Woodruff]

We were only shown to inject around the scruff area but have just read that this area can be resistant to the insulin or at least develop a malabsorption to it, is this the case? If so where else can we inject?
I'm asking because when we first started Woodruff on the insulin it was clearly working (a visible improvement in overall condition as well as bg readings and a halt in the weight loss)
Now, in just the last couple of days he looks terrible, his fur looks just like it did before he was diagnosed, he has lost weight, is pooing/peeing inappropriately again (how on earth do I get a pee sample to test his keystones?) and I suspect he has increased his drinking again ( Makes him sound like a alcoholic!) though that is difficult to monitor in a multi cat house hold. We have an appointment at the vet to get him checked out but couldn't get in until Tuesday. I'm worried about him as he has deteriorated so quickly when all seemed to be stabilising.

 

[AZJenks]

What insulin was Woodruff prescribed? Are you testing his blood sugar at home?

If so where else can we inject?

This thread has some diagrams of alternate shot sites.

how on earth do I get a pee sample to test his keystones?

Here are some links that contain some very helpful tips on getting a urine sample to test:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/ketones-testing.145074/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-advice-as-usual-boops-amps-hi-pmps-546.136327/
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

If, for any reason, you can't or are unsuccessful at testing the urine, there are meters that can test for ketones in a blood sample.

 

[AngelaY and Woodruff]

Thank you AZJenks, that is very helpful.
Woodruff is on Cansulin, 2.5 iu bd, we do try to do his blood sugars but he hates it and will fight us tooth and claw, even though I know it is mostly painless, I hate stressing him out so much which then just makes it harder to give him his insulin and offering treats doesn't work as he is such a fussy so and so we haven't found anything he likes enough for it to work. At the moment we can't do it often enough to get a clear picture of what is bg is doing, plus I am getting near to the last of my test strips and have been waiting an age for them to arrive from online (the first lot got lost in transit) I've even been round my local pharmacies (as it is a human test device) but with no luck.
And don't you just love auto correct! Just seen my keytones has been replaced with keystones lol

 

[AZJenks]

I'm sure others will be by with some excellent tips on testing. I think it all comes down to making it a routine. Pick a nice, quiet, comfortable place. Make that your regular testing spot. Make sure the ears are warm. Praise kitty with love, scratches, and favorite low- or no-carb treats whether you get blood or not. And keep it up until kitty associates testing with something good. Unless you have a very tolerant, very docile cat, it's just something that takes time.

While you're trying to get ear testing to work, just know you can test in alternate places too. If your kitty will tolerate you messing with his feet, I generally recommend the large, center pad on the rear feet. We've had a lot of success doing that.

As for the Caninsulin, I think you'll find that it is not a preferred insulin for cats. It was originally developed for dogs, who have a much slower metabolism than cats. So while it works well for our dog friends, it is not an optimal choice for our kitties. Because of their faster metabolism, the insulin is fast-acting, dropping the blood sugar quickly (and sometimes precipitously), and then wearing off early, which leads to less-than-ideal regulation. If your veterinarian will work with you, a prescription for a long-lasting insulin like Lantus or Levemir would be a much better choice, with much better chances of a potential remission.

 

[AngelaY and Woodruff]

AZ Jenks, Thank you so much for that, the info on Caninsulin is very helpful, we shall ask the vet on Tuesday about changing it. Interestingly I found some other really helpful info on your profile with regard to 'volumous and malodorous' contents in (and around) the litter tray! This symptom had gone away but is back with a vengeance, the vet didn't seem overly bothered about it first time round but now I know it is a good indication of pancreas problems linked with the diabetes I shall press for better investigation this time.

 

[AZJenks]

I can't say definitively that beginning an insulin treatment regimen caused Jenks to have really foul diarrhea, but there's no disputing that they started at the same time. And I've seen enough other reports of smelly, loose stools in new member reports here that I think there's something to it. But every cat is different. So while you can find one person like me who says "Yep, my cat had horrible poops when starting Lantus", you'll find just as many or more people whose cats had no issues whatsoever.

Whatever it is, it's temporary. Jenks' poops firmed up eventually and so too will Woodruff's. But if you're concerned, this place is full of useful poop tips for addressing diarrhea. And now I'm saying poop just for the sake of doing so haha Poop.

 

[Anitafrnhamer]

This is the only method I found that worked to test Squeaker:

Heat a baby sock filled with oatmeal or rice in the microwave for 30 seconds.
Wrap cat in a towel
Lay cat on back on your lap
Apply heated sock to large pad (the one in the center of the foot) of back foot
Lance and test

Once I wrapped the towel around Squeaker he just got real cooperative.

 

[AngelaY and Woodruff]

Thanks Anita, we'll try that,
AZJenks, Woodruffs poop was stinky for a bit before he was diagnosed and got better when the insulin started to take effect but now it's as bad as ever (pale stinky mr whippy!!!) (that is probably a vision nobody wanted) which is part of what makes me think the insulin isn't working, along with his increased drinking and deteriorating fur condition again, I also think he's lost weight again, which he can't afford to do. Tuesday seems so far away

 

[Critter Mom]

we do try to do his blood sugars but he hates it and will fight us tooth and claw, even though I know it is mostly painless, I hate stressing him out so much

You may be experiencing similar problems to myself and Saoirse in the early days. I just hated the need to stick sharp things into her ears (used to cry) but I knew it was necessary so I soldiered on. Thing is, Saoirse could feel how upset and stressy I was getting and she got stressy, too, and it was very tricky to get her to settle for testing. In desperation I gave myself a good talking-to: told myself to cop myself on and get with the programme because Saoirse's well-being and safety depended on my getting a handle on the testing. I then started pretending that I was perfectly OK with the testing process and proceeded to speak to Saoirse in a much more matter-of-fact tone at test time. It really worked! Although I was pretending to be confident at first, the more success I had the more I developed a sense of genuine confidence. Saoirse felt safer and more relaxed with the whole thing as I became more self-assured.

There are the odd occasions nowadays when Saoirse just v-a-n-t-s to be alone at test time and she'll maybe grumble at me a bit. In a bright and cheery voice I tell her to stop being such a drama queen and that works, too!

Woodruffs poop was stinky for a bit before he was diagnosed and got better when the insulin started to take effect but now it's as bad as ever (pale stinky mr whippy!!!)

I suggest taking Woodruff to the vets to do a test to determine whether he may have pancreatitis. The pale, stinky stools point to lack of digestive enzymes - possibly transient or possibly a sign of exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. If it is a pancreatitis flare then the stinky stool problem may resolve with treatment and time. Regardless of whether or not pancreatitis is in play, I suggest asking your vet whether a course of B12 injections might give Woodruff a bit of a boost.

In case pancreatitis is an issue, here are the IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines. The document contains all manner of information on treatments, etc., for you to discuss with your vet.


Mogs
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[pat121]

Not sure how this post will work (on the quote thing), but I was crying so much yesterday (after his diagnosis) that I think I unnerved him. He left my side and said "wtf is wrong with you woman" and went to be by himself. This tells me I need to pull up those big girl panties before working on him and being calm myself. Good advice here.

You may be experiencing similar problems to myself and Saoirse in the early days. I just hated the need to stick sharp things into her ears (used to cry) but I knew it was necessary so I soldiered on. Thing is, Saoirse could feel how upset and stressy I was getting and she got stressy, too, and it was very tricky to get her to settle for testing. In desperation I gave myself a good talking-to: told myself to cop myself on and get with the programme because Saoirse's well-being and safety depended on my getting a handle on the testing. I then started pretending that I was perfectly OK with the testing process and proceeded to speak to Saoirse in a much more matter-of-fact tone at test time. It really worked! Although I was pretending to be confident at first, the more success I had the more I developed a sense of genuine confidence. Saoirse felt safer and more relaxed with the whole thing as I became more self-assured.

There are some very occasional times nowadays when Saoirse just v-a-n-t-s to be alone at test time and she'll maybe grumble at me a bit. In a bright and cheery voice I tell her to stop being such a drama queen, and that works, too!


I suggest taking Woodruff to the vets to do a test to determine whether he may have pancreatitis. The pale, stinky stools point to lack of digestive enzymes - possibly transient or possibly a sign of exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. If it is a pancreatitis flare then the stinky stool problem may resolve with treatment and time. Regardless of whether or not pancreatitis is in play, I suggest asking your vet whether a course of B12 injections might give Woodruff a bit of a boost.

In case pancreatitis is an issue, here are the IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines. The document contains all manner of information on treatments, etc., for you to discuss with your vet.


Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

Not sure how this post will work (on the quote thing), but I was crying so much yesterday (after his diagnosis) that I think I unnerved him. He left my side and said "wtf is wrong with you woman" and went to be by himself. This tells me I need to pull up those big girl panties before working on him and being calm myself. Good advice here.

The Dx does tend to give one a bit of a land, alright.

I heartily recommend the 'fake it till ya make it' technique.


Mogs
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[Critter Mom]

Not sure how this post will work (on the quote thing),

1. If you want to quote the whole post click 'Reply' at the bottom of the post you're responding to (as you did quite successfully above ).

2. If you only want to reply to a section of the post, click and drag your mouse over the relevant text to highlight it. You'll then see a little black tag with the word 'Reply' under the highlighted section of text. Click on the black tag and only the highlighted text will be quoted in your new post.

3. If you want to include multiple, separate quotes - even from different thread contributions - simply do step 2, type your response to the first quote then repeat as necessary till you're done. For example:

--------------------------------------------------------

In case pancreatitis is an issue, here are the IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines. The document contains all manner of information on treatments, etc., for you to discuss with your vet.

This quote is from one of my posts.

This tells me I need to pull up those big girl panties before working on him and being calm myself. Good advice here.

This quote is from your post.

--------------------------------------------------------

4. If you just want to respond to a thread without quoting other responses, simply click into the New Post text box and type away.


Hope the above helps a bit - and a big welcome to you and your kitty.



Mogs
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[Jeanne & Dottie]

Dottie will avoid me like the Plague if I'm cross or anxious. It takes all my strength to remind myself to knock it off, and think about how I'm affecting her.

Try injecting along her flanks or stomach..the skin is thinner, and the insulin will act a bit faster. There are less blood vessels in the scruff area, and that's good when you need to get a grip on a struggling kitty, but it can work against you in regards to insulin.

I have a tiny rubber brush that is actually the 'brushy' part of a larger brush..the handle has been discarded, leaving only the very soft, flexible rubber bristle part, a solid piece that had been attached to the handle by grooves. It's only about 2 1/2 inches long, and not as bulky or threatening as the whole brush, and it soothes her to be brushed a bit, right between the ears, before I poke or inject her. I can tuck it in the palm of one hand, or next to her, while I work, without it's being intrusive.

The rice sock works wonders...we all know how much cats love heat. But test it on your own ear first....even the skin on the inside of the forearm isn't quite as sensitive as ear skin. If it is too hot for you, it's too hot for her. After you use it on her ear, you can let her cuddle the sock if she likes..a kitty 'hot water bottle' of sorts. Using the sock to cause pleasure instead of only being a prelude to pain, will help to desensitize her, so she won't run when she sees you pick it up.

Keep your voice low, and soothing. Try to come up next to her from the side instead of facing her..it's not as confrontational. Break up the whole ritual so she doesn't see a pattern that she finds displeasing..watching Mom or Dad lay out the tools of torture can be a stress all unto itself. Remember when you were a child, and had to go to the doctor for a shot? It's not the injection that hurt so much..it was imagining what it felt like BEFORE you got the shot. And have a treat ready, something kitty never ever gets unless it's after a poke or an injection. She needs something to look forward to. A Good Kitty Gift.

I am SO glad we don't have to deal with actual hot water bottles anymore...Bless microwaves and all their 'extracurricular' uses.

 

[Critter Mom]

Dottie will avoid me like the Plague if I'm cross or anxious. It takes all my strength to remind myself to knock it off, and think about how I'm affecting her.

I feel for you, Jeanne.

With all that has been going on with Saoirse one of the things I found hardest was not being able to consistently pretend I was cheerful for her sake. I was so worried and scared I just couldn't hide it: I must have reeked of fear to her and that was the last thing I wanted. I was causing her upset when the only thing in the world I wanted to do was reassure and comfort her to try to make her feel better.


Mogs
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[Anitafrnhamer]

Thanks Anita, we'll try that,
AZJenks, Woodruffs poop was stinky for a bit before he was diagnosed and got better when the insulin started to take effect but now it's as bad as ever (pale stinky mr whippy!!!) (that is probably a vision nobody wanted) which is part of what makes me think the insulin isn't working, along with his increased drinking and deteriorating fur condition again, I also think he's lost weight again, which he can't afford to do. Tuesday seems so far away

If there is mucus in the stool it is most likely colitis. Adding a pinch of unflavored psyllium husk daily to food can help to bulk up the stool. My Civvie and my Husky have colitis and this is what works best for them. When the Civvie has a bout the stool is a very pale tan color and the smell is hideous.