When is vomiting just vomiting?

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Kim&Buddy

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Sorry for all the questions!

Buddy vomited heavily this morning at 3:45 am (+10). It looked as if none of his food had digested. This isn't the first time he's vomited recently. He got sick last Monday night and Tuesday morning but then his stomach stabilized with some anti nausea medication. He'd been doing fine since then. Unfortunately I wasn't testing at the time so I don't have a baseline. Last night at 6:00 he was at 157 (pre-meal) and I then gave him his glipizide before food. I did a second check around 8:00 and it was at 150. He's showing no other ill signs other than throwing up. In fact he's all lovey right now.

Now that I'm hypersensitive to everything, any suggestions for gauging when vomiting is just vomiting or should I look at this as possibly something more?
 
Don't apologise for asking questions that is what the board is for, questions are encouraged!

I can't answer this one though, it is very rare that Vyktor vomits anything other than fur or a little grass. I have no experience using glipizide so I'm not sure if that could be causing nausea? I assume your vet prescribed the anti-nausea medication (do you have more or was it an injection?) so I think it's definitely worth advising them about the new pukus over the phone and enquiring about whether the glip could be causing it or what else they think it might be - no appointment fee that way ;-)

I just posted this info for someone else but you should have a look too http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_glipizide.html

ETA: I just had another read of that info and glip can cause nausea - another reason to get Buddy off it ;-)
 
Update - he was at 227 pre-glip at 6:00 AM (post vomiting, post slightly stressful ear poke). Could the increase in BG level from 157 last night at 6:00 to 227 this morning at 6:00 account for him getting sick? Taking the glipizide out of the equation, I'm not sure what is considered an acceptable increase is in a 12 hour window.

The amount he vomited this morning is of concern - a very large amount. It was almost as if he had just eaten a full meal and then lost everything five minutes later. Not the amount that would happen 7-9 hours afterward (I feed him at night in two stages - 6:00 and 9:00 - something I've done for years, so not a new routine.) Changed food from Purina DM to Friskies, could be that. However, I've switched up his food before and he's never gotten sick.

Waiting to hear back from the vet, but wracking my brain to figure out what's going on. I really don't want to put him through another trip for yet another exam which will show yet again nothing. (He was examined last Tuesday after he got sick during the night last Monday.)

ARGH!!!
 
Hi

I to have had vomiting today.

Katy seemed fine this morning. Ate food then disapeared, i presumed that she had gone upstairs for a sleep but she reappeared about a hour later and squated really low in the lounge(She does not go outside anymore after be traumtised by something so tends to use the hall usualy her litter tray but not allways unfortunately!! She has never done it anywhere but the hall though). I picked her up and placed her in her tray and she squated again.Now i thought maybe sees got cystitis. She then got out and ran upstairs. i went up and found that she had pooed in the bathroom which she has never done before!!. I tested her blood (1st time Ive done it and it was 6.1) i gave her more wet food and she happy ate it. Then she came back into the lounge and peed again. I called the vet and got a emergency app. and bless her she then peed in her hated catbox. Vet seen and antibotic jab given, insulin is reduced to 2 tonight and down from 5 to 4 till we see him on thursday.

Have you changed his food at all??, Is his poo okay and is it possible that he could have cystitis??

I really hope hes better soon

Take care
 
Did he vomit immediately after eating? Some cats do what we call a "scarf and barf", where they get so excited and eat the food so quickly that they puke it right back up. Bandit is one of these. Do you think that could be the problem? If so, you can fix it by feeding smaller, more frequent amounts of food. I can't give Bandit more than 1.5oz of food at a time (1/4 of a regular sized can, or 1/2 of a small can), or he'll barf it right back up.

The other possibility is that you implemented the diet change too quickly and it upset his stomach a little. If that's the case, some http://www.amazon.com/Purina-Veterinary-FortiFlora-Nutritional-Supplement/dp/B002CM7BOC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333378856&sr=8-2 might help. You can pick some up at any vet's office--some will sell it by the packet, some might make you get the whole box. The upset should resolve itself in a week or so if diet change is the culprit.

Nausea is also a common side effect of glipizide, so it could also be his medication. I know I've already said this, but it is just not a good medication to be giving to your cat, and it's likely to do permanent damage to his pancreas. I saw in your other thread where you asked about the cost of insulin therapy--it's really not so bad when you consider that it's likely going to be a temporary cost instead of a permanent one if you start right away. The only extra cost for a cat in remission is a couple of test strips a month.

I'm not sure about the cost of Levemir, but Lantus is going to be about $90-$120 for a 10 ml vial, or about $230-$250 for a pack of 5 3 ml pens. If you use this $25 off coupon for Lantus, the pens are $219 at Walmart. That seems more expensive than the vial, but it's actually more economical. The 10 ml vial will go bad before you can use all of it, but you'll use every drop of the pens so there is no waste. With proper handling, the insulin will stay good for 2-6 months, so that pack of 5 pens will likely last you a year or more. You also have the option of ordering insulin from Canada, where it is way cheaper. Here are some links where you can order it: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1FCnrPxpYD02Gp5hWtEIbhLXm0VOyaZlAT_qeCjlx-Js&pli=1. Syringes (.3cc, 30-31g with 5/16" needles and half unit markings) cost about $15 at Walmart.

Apart from insulin, the only other real expense is test strips. Walmart's Relion Confirm is a popular meter that has inexpensive test strips. This is the same meter but without the Walmart brand, and the test strips are even less expensive if ordered through ADW: http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...ose-monitoring-kit_4044.htm?source=SiteSearch. You want to budget for about 30 test strips a week.

I would get the meter and start testing immediately. You'll want several days of testing after you stop the glipizide but before you start insulin--right now you don't know if the diet change is what lowered his blood glucose or if the glipizide is doing it. If he is reaching normal/almost normal levels without it, then you may not even have to start insulin.

Like I said, I know this seems like a big expense, but you really have to look at the big picture--delaying treatment is more likely to lead to permanent insulin dependance and bigger vet costs with possible diabetes related complications.

EDIT: Just saw your other post and that you got a meter and started testing! That's fantastic. :-D
 
Thanks for the info about Lantus costs and strategies re: the pen and info about ADW!

Following suggestions, I went with the Relion Confirm. Very easy to use. And it will be even easier when I remember to put the strip in before I poke his ear! It was quite comical this morning with me trying to keep him steady in my lap while getting the strip in. :-D

Thinking ahead to a trial before insulin. In your opinion, what would you consider normal/approaching normal - indicating there might not be a need to use the insulin? I've got a chart at home that indicates using insulin for anything above 200 but I'm not sure how reliable it is or how many times that 200 number needs to appear.
 
Is buddy overweight at all? That's something to consider when looking at his blood glucose range. Once an overweight cat drops the extra lbs, BG that's a little higher than normal can drop into the normal range. Normal for a cat is 60-120, but I would hold off on insulin if he's mostly below 180 and you're not getting anything in the 200s. If you see those numbers creeping up into the 200s or 300s, then you'll want to start insulin. The renal threshold is about 240, so if you get over that you'll need to start. It's possible he'll only need insulin for a short time if he's maintaining number in the 200s on his own. You might want to actually go with the vial if that's the case, because it's probably he wouldn't need insulin for very long in that situation.
 
Hello Kim & Buddy,
When I feed my civvie girl Slappy, she will eat a whole can of f. feast. I have to feed her about 1/2 of the can and wait for 15-20 min or so before I can give the rest or she will eat it all and it immediately comes back up.
I have only seen my smallest, Ittle Sista do this once or twice and it was when she scarfed down the foods really fast.
My Sugar Bean on the other hand, will eat then go outside and eat grass and a barf happens or she will do just the other way around. I dont know what is up with the grass because it does not happen all the time.
You might want to slow his eating down a bit?? especially if it is new foods.

good luck, sending furry hugs your way!
 
Thankfully he doesn't inhale. He eats a bunch, walks away, eats some more, walks away, etc. Even the Friskies - which I swear is kitty crack - doesn't send him over the edge. ohbell, the images of Sugar Bean and grass...ewwwwww!!

Julia, Buddy weighs 14 pounds which I've been told for his size is his optimal weight. I adopted him at 5'ish years old (he's a rescue) and he was 14 pounds then. He crept up to 17 pounds but as of two years ago, that number has come back down to where he's supposed to be at. He's a lean, not-so-mean 12 year old now. The vet has me feeding him two cans a day (which I think is high but I'm a new convert to all-wet diet so have no frame of reference) with instructions to watch his weight. It's always fun holding a cat and trying to do the whole contortionist thing in order to read the scale!

I'm going to get a couple of more days of testing in with him on the glipizide. I'm praying two more days on it won't have long-term consequences. I'd like to have a little baseline and then maybe Wednesday go off of it and observe what happens with fingers, toes and paws crossed. You think twice a day readings will suffice?
 
Kim&Buddy said:
Thankfully he doesn't inhale. He eats a bunch, walks away, eats some more, walks away, etc. Even the Friskies - which I swear is kitty crack - doesn't send him over the edge. ohbell, the images of Sugar Bean and grass...ewwwwww!!

Julia, Buddy weighs 14 pounds which I've been told for his size is his optimal weight. I adopted him at 5'ish years old (he's a rescue) and he was 14 pounds then. He crept up to 17 pounds but as of two years ago, that number has come back down to where he's supposed to be at. He's a lean, not-so-mean 12 year old now. The vet has me feeding him two cans a day (which I think is high but I'm a new convert to all-wet diet so have no frame of reference) with instructions to watch his weight. It's always fun holding a cat and trying to do the whole contortionist thing in order to read the scale!

I'm going to get a couple of more days of testing in with him on the glipizide. I'm praying two more days on it won't have long-term consequences. I'd like to have a little baseline and then maybe Wednesday go off of it and observe what happens with fingers, toes and paws crossed. You think twice a day readings will suffice?

That should be ok--but I would try and get a couple more tests in a few of the days so you can also get a test 2hrs after food and 4hrs after food. That will help you figure out if his pancreas is producing insulin.

If he's at an ideal weight, then that's great. Are you feeding 2 5.5oz cans a day? If so, that's definitely a lot of food. That could be keeping him a bit high on his own. A 14 lb cat needs about 260 calories a day, which is about 1 5.5 oz can of Friskies. Bandit's ideal weight is 13-14 lbs (his ideal weight was 13lbs, but he's been gaining muscle lately since I started feeding him Merricks, so he's at the perfect size but weighs 13.6 lbs now). He gets 1 5.5 oz can of Merricks a day, or 2 3oz cans of Fancy Feast. Or any combination thereof as long as it adds up to about 5.5-6 oz.

Of course, every cat is different and he may need slightly more or less food than that to maintain his weight, but it's not going to be double that like your vet is having you feed. If he was losing weight because of the diabetes, that would be a different story. You want to feed some extra until he becomes regulated. But even in that case it wouldn't be a full 2 cans--more like 1 1/2 cans. The feeding recommendations on the back of the can are ALWAYS way too high. Makes sense, because they want you to buy a lot of their food!
 
Maxwell is a big boy...long, tall and muscular and tips the scales at a lean 17lbs (suspect Maine Coon in his ancestry), and even he only eats 1 & 1/2 (5.5oz) cans of Friskies per day. He is also 13 years old and in remission.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
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