When do insulin cats start urinating less?

[SHK]

The short version: EQ's symptoms aren't subsiding yet. How quickly did you start to see your cat get better once you started giving insulin?

The long version: I'm sitting here eating coconut chocolate cookies for breakfast because I am feeling that same worry I did when we got the diagnosis on June 7. We started Lantus on June 9 @ 1.5u, then on June 11 we moved to 2u, then June 16 we moved to 2.5u (all vet prescribed). I learned after the fact that it's best to go slower than we did, but when will EQ start to feel better? It's scary to me because his little body is in danger every day his numbers remain high and he passes so much glucose in his urine. He has not yet experienced a hypo episode (and I know they can happen at any time, no matter what the dose - so I'm always watching his behavior), thank goodness. And the numbers I've been able to get so far (not many yet) indicate he is still in the 300 range before each meal. Thankfully no ketones so far, his appetite remains good, and he's drinking all the water I add to his food. But his litterbox activity (urine output) has not decreased yet. Not at all. I've only been testing a few days, and I'm supposed to call the vet Saturday with a +5 and +6 reading, and he'll probably raise his dose again. But until then, I'm wondering... when did you start to see the symptoms (and numbers) drop for your cat? Was it immediate or did it take months?

Is there anyone here who uses a dose of 2.5 (or more) units of Lantus? I received some answers to my first post that made me freak out about such a high dose of Lantus, and now I know why - the risk of hypoglycemic episodes. But since EQ's numbers are still in the 300 ranges right now at the times I'm able to test pre-meal (I'll get more data during the cycle this weekend), I wonder when I'll be start seeing him pee less and generally feel better. Cats are so good at hiding their pain and discomfort... I wish he could talk!

I just need a little encouragement. I'm appreciative for any advice you can pass on.

Note: I posted this in the Lantus Relaxed board, but maybe it's supposed to go here. My apologies to the webmaster if I'm doing this wrong. Oops - edited to add the little question mark topic icon.

 

[squeem3]

The short version: EQ's symptoms aren't subsiding yet. How quickly did you start to see your cat get better once you started giving insulin?

I think it was within a few months. Some cats may show signs of improvement within a few weeks, others may take a longer.

Is there anyone here who uses a dose of 2.5 (or more) units of Lantus? I received some answers to my first post that made me freak out about such a high dose of Lantus, and now I know why - the risk of hypoglycemic episodes. But since EQ's numbers are still in the 300 ranges right now at the times I'm able to test pre-meal (I'll get more data during the cycle this weekend), I wonder when I'll be start seeing him pee less and generally feel better. Cats are so good at hiding their pain and discomfort... I wish he could talk!

My diabetic was up at 4 units BID of Lantus at one point and bis bgs were still in the 300 range :roll: Over 4 years his insulin dose has varied between 1.5 units and 4 units depending on what his bg level trends where. We had a nice stretch of 100s for awhile and then for unknown reasons bgs went back up. Bgs pretty much bounced around every couple of months. And this was on low carb canned food and frequent bg testing, the advice of Lantus users who don't visit FDMB often anymore, and the only other health issue was asthma which was treated with Flovent. Some cats may just need more than 1 unit of insulin in the beginning to regulate the bgs and then may need to slowly decrease the dose as the cat's pancrease starts to produce its own insulin. Then there are cats who may always need a "high" dose of insulin.

Newbies shouldn't start out a high dose of insulin because they don't know how the cat will react (ie hypo). 2.5 units can pack a punch in some cats.

Just my two cents on that :smile: My cat was just defective so the way his diabetes was managed probably isn't very typical of other cats here on FDMB.

I posted this in the Lantus Relaxed board, but maybe it's supposed to go here. My apologies to the webmaster if I'm doing this wrong. Oops - edited to add the little question mark topic icon.

You can post here or on Lantus :smile: You'll get advice either way.

 

[SHK]

I appreciate your response, squeem3! My vet (and a friend who used to have a diabetic cat) said it could take a while, and that we would most likely need to keep increasing the doses. But I wasn't scared of a dose like 2.5 until I joined this forum! And then I read about other cats that are improving with such tiny doses... I just feel alone since EQ isn't improving yet.

 

[squeem3]

But I wasn't scared of a dose like 2.5 until I joined this forum! And then I read about other cats that are improving with such tiny doses... I just feel alone since EQ isn't improving yet.

Don't feel bad :YMHUG: True, some newbie cats show improvement rather quickly on very little insulin. But there are others who take awhile to show improvement even if you are doing all the right things. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and don't let anyone make you feel that you are a failure. Seeing daily bgs in the 300+ does get frustrating after awhile despite all the things you do. But remember - it's not all about the numbers. The most important thing is to have a happy and otherwise healthy cat. Sure, my diabetic cat frustrated me to no end for 4 years with his bouncy bgs but I would have never traded him for anything in the world cat_pet_icon

My two cents :smile:

 

[grapey]

It took my cat more than a month to start peeing less. Unfortunately, she ate the wrong food for about a week (higher carb wet) and her peeing increased again. So I'm hoping it'll come down again soon. But I do feel better knowing it can take a while, but it will happen.

 

[Jennifer & Saima (GA)]

I am not one to give dosing advice, but I guess it might be possible that you missed his optimal dose? Oftentimes people here start at 0.5 units and go up from there. I think they would also say that you need more test results to try and figure out what is going on (at least an AM pre-shot and PM pre-shot, and one midcycle test in one of the cycles). I know this can be a huge challenge depending on work schedules and how difficult the cat is to test, but it really does help fill in the big picture. It is also possible that you just have a kitty who needs a higher dose, and you haven't gotten there yet.

What is the % carbs in the food that he eats? I am not familiar with that brand.

I would encourage you to post on the Lantus forum also (you could wait a little longer if you want until you are more comfortable with everything), as they are really knowledgeable about dosing.

Good luck! It seems to me like you are doing a great job with your kitty.

 

[SHK]

What is the % carbs in the food that he eats? I am not familiar with that brand.

I would encourage you to post on the Lantus forum also (you could wait a little longer if you want until you are more comfortable with everything), as they are really knowledgeable about dosing.

Good luck! It seems to me like you are doing a great job with your kitty.

Thanks for your encouragement! According to the food chart, it has zero carbs. He's been on it for about three years. Both vets I saw said his diet is already optimal for diabetes management, so I don't have high hopes that he'll ever go OTJ.

I did post on the Relaxed Lantus forum and got a couple answers there too. The posters there tend to lead more toward a much smaller dose, but I also spoke with the vet today after faxing her EQ's spreadsheet and some notes I wrote about his general behavior. She instructed me to increase to 3u, starting tonight. With the numbers as high as they are, and his urinary symptoms not changing, she said she doesn't think he's at risk of a hypo episode even at 3u. But I'm home all weekend, so I can monitor him anyway, just in case. I have to be patient (not my strongest attribute) and watchful. We'll see how it goes.

 

[PrettyBlueEyes]

Oh no...please don't feel like a failure!! I think you are doing really well!

It can be very frustrating in the beginning, and nerve-wracking. Leo took a bit over a week until he started urinating less and feeling better in general. Like EQ, his PS numbers were consistently in the 300s until we got everything dialed in with testing and injections. And then his PS values started to get lower. And then he surprised me by continuing to go into more normal numbers.

Leo used ProZinc, very different in terms of dosing, so I can only really offer you encouragement-some kitties need more insulin than others, maybe especially in the first weeks as they get used to the insulin. It sounds like you have EQ on a good diet and the Lantus folks will help you find the right dose. If you feel up to it, the weekend might be a good time to try a curve to get a good picture of what the insulin is doing for your kitty's BG values across the cycle.

Hang in there and don't lose hope of getting EQ regulated.

Best wishes for both of you,

Kate & Leo