When did you start to see your cat's numbers drop?

[SHK]

I'm unable to follow the Lantus Tight Protocol regulation, so I'm posting in the Relaxed forum, hoping this is the right place. If not, please forgive me in advance.

I've only been testing a few days, and I'm wondering... when did you start to see the numbers drop for your cat? Was it immediate or did it take months? I know it's best to go slow (which I found out after the vet incremented us up to 2.5u in less than 10 days - ugh!), but when will EQ start to feel better? It's scary to me because his little body is in danger every day his numbers remain high and he passes so much glucose in his urine. He has not yet experienced a hypo episode (and I know they can happen at any time, no matter what the dose - so I'm always watching his behavior), thank goodness. And the numbers I've been able to get so far (not many yet) indicate he is still in the 300 range before each meal. Thankfully no ketones so far, his appetite remains good, and he's drinking all the water I add to his food. But his litterbox activity (urine output) has not decreased yet. Not at all.

Is there anyone here who uses a dose of 2.5 (or more) units of Lantus? I received some answers to my first post that made me freak out about such a high dose of Lantus, and now I know why - the risk of hypoglycemic episodes. But since EQ's numbers are still in the 300 ranges right now at the times I'm able to test pre-meal (I'll get more data during the cycle this weekend), I wonder when I'll be start seeing him pee less and generally feel better. Cats are so good at hiding their pain and discomfort... I wish he could talk!

I guess my basic question is - how quickly did you start to see your cat get better once you started giving insulin?

I just need a little encouragement. I'm appreciative for any advice you can pass on.

 

[knolet]

Zeus' numbers are not where they should be, but I noticed a difference in his appearance pretty quickly. After he was diagnosed we switched food to purina DM canned, he almost immediately stopped drinking as much and didn't fill the litter box as often. And then we started on insulin a few days later and his fur started to look and feel better too. Now he's starting to gain a little weight back :smile:

We've been at this for about 5 or 6 weeks.... but it feels like it's been a lot longer. So, while I can't answer the question about the numbers dropping.... I did see a difference in other areas.

 

[sch]

More encouragement here, for you!!!!! I wish I could answer you!!! Hopefully someone will answer you soon. I have the same question, Melanie. I am going to be talking to my vet about this, too. I also would be concerned, at this point after 2 weeks of not seeing the urinating/drinking change. If he is testing that high with a 2.5 dose, sounds to me like the vet is leading you well. Caesar is only on 1 unit 2x a day and his numbers are close to yours so, he must be requiring that (and more) if he is still symptomatic? I don't know. I am new, so I am certainly no expert, but, sounds like the vet has you on the right track. I am sure someone will correct me if I am off base on this. Seems common sense though. I hope you are picking up my positive vibes!!!!

 

[SHK]

Thank you both for your replies! His fur still looks awful, but I did see him grooming himself yesterday; I think that's a good sign. But he's still urinating SO much. I started reading through other people's posts, and most say their cat's symptoms got better within a couple days to a week after starting insulin. It's been 12 days and 2 increases and he doesn't seem to feel any better.

I posted a version of this in the main health forum too. I hope I did the right thing by doing that. I'm just so worried, I want to reach as many readers as possible in case someone has a similar situation and can give me advice.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

In all honesty, every cat is different...some with diet change alone to a low carb/high protein diet go into remission and off insulin quickly...others it is a constant fight up and down the dosing chart to just keep them in reasonable numbers. Some with bounce and dive even if everything is the same.

Then you get to add in that too much insulin can look exactly like too little insulin. Because their bodies tries to protect itself from the extra insulin by dumping counteregulatory hormones and stored sugars which zooms those BGs back up again.

So with all that said, let me ask you a few questions to see if we can help you help EQ to at least feel better..

What dose is he currently on? What are you feeding him? How much and how often? How often are you able to test him, and if there are problems with testing what are they? With Lantus there are 3 important tests which are before each shot to make sure he is safe enough to give insulin too in the first place, and right before you go to sleep at night to make sure he isn't dropping too much and is safe to leave over night. Then on a day off or on a weekend when you have a full 12 hours to spend with him about once a week or every 2 weeks you will want to run a curve to check the dosage. To run a curve you want to test every 2 hours between one shot and the next, as Lantus is based on the lowest point in that cycle.

Again this differs with every cat, some will drop hard and fast and then hang out at a normal level until right before their next shot. Others will drop slow and gently and then slowly come back up. But ideally you are looking for a dose that you can give comfortably every 12 hours that won't let them rise higher than 120 and not drop lower than 50 at its lowest point. That can be very tricky to do with cats, actually its pretty hard to do with just about any diabetic, even the human ones. But the closer you get to the ideal dose the flatter the curve will get. In the beginning you are looking for a dose that gives you a flat curve no real steep drops, that cause them to bounce, once you get to that flat point although it might be high & flat, then you slowly start raising the dose until those preshot numbers start coming down and staying down.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[SHK]

What dose is he currently on? What are you feeding him? How much and how often? How often are you able to test him, and if there are problems with testing what are they? With Lantus there are 3 important tests which are before each shot to make sure he is safe enough to give insulin too in the first place, and right before you go to sleep at night to make sure he isn't dropping too much and is safe to leave over night. Then on a day off or on a weekend when you have a full 12 hours to spend with him about once a week or every 2 weeks you will want to run a curve to check the dosage. To run a curve you want to test every 2 hours between one shot and the next, as Lantus is based on the lowest point in that cycle.

He is on 2.5u twice a day. He eats 1 can of Instinctive Choice (which according to the food list on Binky's page has zero carbs) twice a day approximately 12 hours apart. In the morning, he gets an extra 1/4 can mixed with his Cosequin for FIC. He's already been following this feeding routine for about three years, with the occasional Fancy Feast grain-free variety thrown in as a treat. I have not given him Fancy Feast since the diagnosis, though. He also gets at least 1/3 cup of distilled water added to his food. Basically, his food schedule has not changed from before the diagnosis. Right now I test twice a day, about 10 minutes before his meals. I will start testing before I go to sleep tonight too. I'm going to do a curve this Sunday, but I'm also planning to test mid-day on Saturday too. The vet wants me to call with Saturday's results, and then on Monday with the curve results.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I know it can take a while, but I get discouraged when I read about other cats who felt better and urinated less right away on tiny doses. I want to do everything in my power to help him feel better as soon as possible.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Just a tiny recommendation -- I wouldn't give your cat distilled water as his only source of water. You'd be better off using purified water (e.g., water that's through a filter like a Brita).

The following information is from Little Big Cat and written by a vet:

Distilled water has been purified so that it does not contain any particles at all. While purity may sound good, you really should not use distilled water for drinking. The reason lies in the fundamental nature of water. Water and solutes (molecules and particles) move by osmosis and diffusion, respectively. You might remember these from high school chemistry class! Basically, water moves by osmosis from where there is more of it, to where there is less of it; and solutes diffuse from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. Distilled water contains zero solutes, so when it enters the intestines, diffusion will actually pull solutes out of the body. Drinking only distilled water can ultimately cause deficiencies in sodium, potassium, and important trace minerals. It also becomes acidic when exposed to air. It may contain higher levels of volatile compounds such as benzenes, trihalomethanes, and trichloroethylene, as well as highly toxic “disinfection by-products.” In people, exclusive consumption of distilled water is associated with high blood pressure and heart arrhythmias. While distilled water can be valuable when used for a short-term process of detoxification, it’s not safe for long-term consumption.

 

[SHK]

Just a tiny recommendation -- I wouldn't give your cat distilled water as his only source of water. You'd be better off using purified water (e.g., water that's through a filter like a Brita).

The following information is from Little Big Cat and written by a vet:

Distilled water has been purified so that it does not contain any particles at all. While purity may sound good, you really should not use distilled water for drinking. The reason lies in the fundamental nature of water. Water and solutes (molecules and particles) move by osmosis and diffusion, respectively. You might remember these from high school chemistry class! Basically, water moves by osmosis from where there is more of it, to where there is less of it; and solutes diffuse from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration. Distilled water contains zero solutes, so when it enters the intestines, diffusion will actually pull solutes out of the body. Drinking only distilled water can ultimately cause deficiencies in sodium, potassium, and important trace minerals. It also becomes acidic when exposed to air. It may contain higher levels of volatile compounds such as benzenes, trihalomethanes, and trichloroethylene, as well as highly toxic “disinfection by-products.” In people, exclusive consumption of distilled water is associated with high blood pressure and heart arrhythmias. While distilled water can be valuable when used for a short-term process of detoxification, it’s not safe for long-term consumption.

Whoa, that's kind of scary, but thank you for that information! Does that apply to only diabetic cats or to all cats? EQ gets distilled water added to his food because the vet said it was best for his FIC - less trace minerals to irritate his bladder, among other reasons. I used to add filtered water, but I noticed a decrease in his urinary troubles when I switched to the distilled. This was before the diabetes diagnosis, of course. I also have a fountain, but I use water from the Pur filter for that.