What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR forum?

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KPassa

KPassa

Member Since 2012
I've seen this question get asked a lot. Who better to answer than the people who actually post in this forum? So, to you, what is the difference between the forums and what made you decide to post here?

Please keep it civil as I would like to be able to post a link to this thread in the future to help new members decide which forum might be better suited to their needs.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I initially started posting in TR when I first joined here back in October/November 2012. I'm not sure how long it was before I even realized there was a "non-TR" group, but even when I finally discovered it, I still wasn't too sure I was "allowed" to post here. It wasn't until a year later, on 11/12/2013, that I moved over from TR and started my first post in Relaxed.

Some of the reasons why I moved:
  • I don't post daily (or even weekly) condos. I tried for a while, but it's just not my thing.
  • I didn't need dosing advice since Mikey only ever needed increases and I couldn't even increase him in .25u increments at a time because it would cause too steep a drop into dangerous numbers
  • Because of me having to increase his dose so slowly, it would take a week or more for each dose increase to be completed
  • I work full time and held off on dose increases until I could be around to monitor him (weekends, usually), so I wasn't immediately increasing every 3 days/6 cycles
  • There wasn't much interaction going on in my condos and there wasn't much need for me to go into other people's condos to offer support
  • There were a lot more people in Relaxed who could use my support instead
  • I crave references and links and documentation and I just didn't feel I was getting that. People would give advice but not point me to anywhere I could look it up and research it for myself
  • I wasn't really following TR at that point any more because I love "exceptions to the rules" so I would safely test out various alternatives to see if they would work (some of them did, some of them didn't)
  • Mikey was as regulated as he would ever be on Lantus so it was depressing seeing all those kitties with beautiful numbers and going OTJ while Mikey remained in the stinky pinkies for most of the time.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

When I had Spitzer and he was on Lantus, he didn't read the rule book and didn't fit the requirements of Tight Regulation. It turned out he had IBD or possibly lymphoma in the intestinal tract. When I started innovating to manage his ups and downs which didn't work with a consistent Lantus dose, it very clearly didn't fit the TR forum, so I stopped posting there.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Haha, the delay in responses on here is one clear difference - we're a smaller group and people who post less often as a general rule. As such, we don't hold it against others when they do the same!

Bullets are probably a good call, so I'll copy that formatting:

  • I work full-time and have small children. My life is total chaos and promising to get 4 tests every day was scary and seemed totally unrealistic (though I actually managed to do it pretty consistently once I got comfortable with the whole thing).
  • This group is smaller and I felt like I really know both the people and cats who are in here. I can remember the histories and situations without referring back to previous posts constantly.
  • I no longer post every day, or have interesting updates when I do since my kitty is OTJ (yay!!), but I still feel like people know who I am when I post a condo just a couple times a month because I'm not lost in the shuffle.
  • No one minds if people pop in and out.
  • No one minds if people want to be very conservative in dosing and letting them riding a little higher than TR would because you know you can't monitor regularly isn't going to result in any guilt or repetition of "you need to test more!" comments from the group.
  • I could always still get dosing info when needed from posting in TR, so I liked the tighter community here, but the more active community of dosing experts were still friendly and happy to support those questions when I needed that from the TR folks.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

atajev said:
Haha, the delay in responses on here is one clear difference - we're a smaller group and people who post less often as a general rule. As such, we don't hold it against others when they do the same!
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: So true! :lol: :lol:

atajev said:
  • This group is smaller and I felt like I really know both the people and cats who are in here. I can remember the histories and situations without referring back to previous posts constantly.
  • I no longer post every day, or have interesting updates when I do since my kitty is OTJ (yay!!), but I still feel like people know who I am when I post a condo just a couple times a month because I'm not lost in the shuffle.
Click to expand...

YES! That's another thing I love about this forum. :-D
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I'm unable to test 4 times a day, I'm lucky I get the pre shot tests in and we are working at getting a pre bed time shot in. Sometimes I feel like a failure as a cat mom because I haven't been able to get those tests in and figure out Heff's dose.

That being said my vet was THRILLED I wanted to test because most people dont, they rely on curves at the vet. I can't afford that. So I don't post often because when i do post either I get few responses or I get chastized for not testing enough. I'm doing the best I can.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

My reasons for joining the "relaxed" group are similar to many of those listed by previous posters. I never tried TR or posted in that forum, even though a member encouraged me to when I first posted on the Main Health board. I waited until I was testing and home regularly and had switched my cat to a low carb diet to join an ISG.

Here are some of my reasons:
[*] What I like about this board is that it's smaller; I feel like I can keep track of the cats and people who are regulars.
[*] I don't need much advice (since Maddy is basically diet regulated now), so posting every day isn't a priority for me.
[*] I felt that members of this forum would be more "relaxed" about me doing my best to keep my cat safe and well regulated even if I wasn't adhering precisely to a protocol.

As an aside, I just want to thank KPassa for raising these issues and for creating a space for us to articulate why "relaxed" lantus became our home. As I've been reading over the posts for the past few months, I've noticed that a lot of the regulars are (like me) relatively new to FDMB. I think it's helpful to have an occasional conversation about how the forum is meeting the needs of members and what (if anything) we can all do to meet those needs better.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

and i wanted to respond to lak99. please feel free to post here. we would love to hear from you. and you ARE doing the best you can. i am sure you are a GREAT cat mom!!!!!
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I also want to respond to lak99. I have absolutely been where you are, often feeling like I'm falling short because sometimes other things in life get in the way and make it difficult to get in 4 or more tests a day. You never need to feel like a failure! Many, many people won't even test their cats at home and you are certainly doing that which shows real concern for your kitty's well-being. I don't believe anyone here will ever chastise you. We are all feeling our way along this difficult path and want to support each other. So please post any time and if any of us can help you, we surely will. Hang in there :smile:

Christi
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Since Cedric passed away last October, I don't post on the boards much anymore, but felt I should add my 2 cents to this thread.

When he was first dx'd in April 2011, I was frantic. I did get some info in the TR forum, but I felt "lost" in the foot traffic there. I couldn't post a "condo" every day - I work 7 days a week (2 jobs) and sometimes when I work at Walt Disney World on the weekends I am there at 5am. When Cedric went back in insulin last year, we started posting here. Less foot traffic, but I felt that he would get lost in the shuffle.

I do miss you guys, so I try to pop back in when I can. :YMHUG:
Right now, I am trying to get the new kitten regulated with the little box, lol! He's got diarrea.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Jesse hon you don't need a sugarcat to post here we except civies too :-D

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

hi Jesse
good to meet you.
nadine & sweet Tibbs
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I was really glad to find this thread tonight. It could not have been more timely because I was hoping that Relaxed Lantus might be the best group for Saoirse and I to join, and I've found this thread really helpful.

SInce joining FDMB, I have mostly posted on the Feilne Health board. I did post a couple of times on the TR board because I can consistently get at least the requisite number of tests and I have been using the TR protocol dosing adjustment ranges and guidelines , and I'm feeding Saoirse mini meals.

I'd like to join this group for the following reasons (in no particular order):

  • In addition to managing Saoirse's FD, pancreatitis (and possibly IBD) I have health problems too (PTSD and injured back mainly). My sleeping pattern is erratic and I suffer badly from fatigue.
  • Saoirse's numbers are quite low and she runs lower at night. Because I can't guarantee being able to stay awake, I skip night-time doses to keep her safe and me sane.
  • Saoirse is recovering from a pancreatitis flare-up and I don't want to rush at a remission attempt. I want to give her pancreas the support of the insulin till she's doing better.
  • For the reasons outlined above, I can't follow 'Pure TR'.
  • I feel overwhelmed and a bit lost when confronted with the volume of posts on the TR board. I couldn't keep up with it.
  • Because of my concentration/focus problems, I find it very tiring to compose and type posts. I certainly couldn't manage daily condos.
  • I'm fairly OK on judging Saoirse's dosing with the aid of the guidelines in the TR protocol (she's responded well to Lantus) so I don't have many questions to ask about that at the moment.
  • I get a lot of help by reading some of the condos in TR but, being so inexperienced, I don't feel I have anything of value to contribute to them.
  • I'm too inexperienced to help others WRT TR protocol questions.
  • I'd like to learn more and maybe sometimes discuss aspects of FD other than dosing with other board members. (I like links to research stuff, too.)
  • I would very much like to ask other more experienced members now and again to have a gander at Saoirse's spreadsheet to let me know if I'm doing OK for her.
  • I'd like to be able to get to know other board members and their moggies better and to offer support where I can, even if it's only the moral variety. :smile:
  • It would be really nice to have somewhere to share Saoirse's successes and hiccups with other board members and to share in their kitties' stories too.

Is there any room for a small one? @-)
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

There is always room here, no matter how small! :-D

You might also be interested in reading this recent thread about how you don't have to follow a specific protocol to the T here.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Yay! C'mon in, Saoirse. The water's fine! :-D

Thanks KPassa, I'll check out that link.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

hi there. welcome saoirse and bean. would love to hear from you whenever you feel like posting. i am new here too but i can offer support and just be here if you need anything. sorry about the ptsd . i am usually up late if u need to chat. welcome.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Welcome, welcome Critter Mom and Saoirse,
So many of the things you posted I can relate to because they are so much like how I feel. I have fibromyalgia and some days I am doing well to just function minimally. It's nearly impossible for me to post every day plus as we go through this I'm finding Noodle not to be an "average" cat (my vet's words.) He has had some of the same challenges as Saoirse. We are so glad to have you here and I really look forward to getting to know you and your sweet baby better as we all support and advise each other. So glad you're joining here and I can tell you are a great "Critter Mom"! :smile:

Christi
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

There's always room for one more! Can't wait to get you know you and your sweet girl.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Thank you for the warm welcome, Tibbs5 and Christi. It really gave me a boost to read your posts today.

Thank you, Nadine, for the offer of some company when it's stupid o'clock. That's soooooooo appreciated. Ditto if you need a cyber ear. :smile:

Christi, I'm sorry to hear about your fybromyalgia. From what I have heard about it I understand it's a very debilitating and painful condition. I think the "Every Care-giver Is Different" comment earlier in the thread is so true. Looking at a spreadsheet doesn't tell the full story of how much love, dedication, physical, mental and emotional effort lies behind the getting of all those numbers. I think you've doing an amazing job of looking after Noodle (and great to see that all his P's are good!). When it comes to being a good critter mom, I say right back atcha! :thumbup
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Thanks everyone & Welcome Critter Mom & Saoirse. :)

I managed to do my first curve (Finally!) last week and it went ok. I think I'm narrowing Heff's dose down to between 1.75 & 2 units.

I'm afraid that I'm more comfortable with Heff being in the 200's than 100s because I know he's safe when I'm not home to monitor or test. I feel like I'm manipulating his numbers with food and keeping him higher than he needs to be.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

lak99 said:
I'm afraid that I'm more comfortable with Heff being in the 200's than 100s because I know he's safe when I'm not home to monitor or test. I feel like I'm manipulating his numbers with food and keeping him higher than he needs to be.
Click to expand...
We can help you with that! A lot of people here "ease up" the dosing scale and get tests in when they can. As I mentioned in my post above, I only feel comfortable doing dose increases on days I'll be able to monitor Mikey closely because he sometimes likes to drop low. I also have to increase by "fats" and "skinnies" because Mikey is so sensitive to dose increases. There are also a lot of cats who LOVE bouncing so you sometimes need to hold doses much longer. All of these things are workable and can be done as slow or as fast as your schedule and your comfort level allow. ;-)
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I haven't updated is sheet since last Thursday, but UGH 405 this morning! I think he vacuumed under the table where the other cats eat. My one cat flings her food in the air and catches it--and in the process gets food everywhere!

I'll update tonight. I also need to order more strips--I think I'm going to try ADW and the Arkwray strips.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Sounds good! If you want us to take a look at it, you can post a new topic either tonight or tomorrow once you have the spreadsheet updated. :thumbup
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Hi everyone! May we - Misho and me his human also join your group ? I will be happy if we are not too many here. And as I am not fluent with your language as well as I haven't got the time to read all threads if there are certain basic rules I have to follow ( just in brief ) let me know please. I think that I break some of them here and there since I post in FDMB :smile: but I really do it unwittingly.
It's lunch time with us so I wish you all a happy day ahead :thumbup

P.S. I think I linked both previous threads of Misho in my signature(hopefully it worked) for those of you who are willing to know more about his story.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

welcome Di & Misho
we would love to have you join our group. i am new here too. just joined in july 2014 but one of our more experienced members will tell you about this group. there are not alot of rules here & everyone is very nice. they know all about feline diabetes & have helped me alot. i read your history with Misho and just wanted to say not to worry because your English is very very good.
nice to meet you.
Nadine & Tibbs
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Welcome to Relaxed, Di and Misho! We're still working out the details since we just got a forum moderator (thanks, MommaOfMuse!), so the only real "rule" at the moment is to simply start a post introducing yourselves here and asking any questions you might have. :-D
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

I too would like to join the Relaxed group for similar reasons. I just found this forum / group (even though Lee Lu was dx'ed 10/2013) and I work more than full time and I need a group that is supportive and encourages patience (I have minimal!) with dosing and testing. Nothing at all wrong with the TR group, I just think I would feel like a failure for not doing bg tests all the time b/c I cannot.

I'll post a new thread intro'ing myself if that is OK with y'all. I still need to convert my curve tests and tracking to a Google SS for my signature.

Thanks!
Amanda
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Please do Amanda we'd love to meet you and your extra sweet kitty. :-D There is always room for more.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

hi Amanda & your sweet kitty. welcome to relaxed lantus. this is a great group of people. glad you can join us.
nadine &tibbs
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

hi Kay
are you alright?
:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

For the above reasons you have all so eloquently described,would it be alright with you guys if Bailey & I called by occasionally?We don't post on a regular basis,but reading this condo made it feel just right for us.
KPassa this is going to be an invaluable info sticky for new members,well done.

Diane & Bailey
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Hi Diane and Bailey
We would LOVE to have you join us whenever you can.
Welcome.
Nadine & Tibbs
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Hi Diane,

Looking forward to having you here. :smile: The TR forum is so busy it makes my befuddled noggin spin so I haven't been able to keep up with how you and Bailey are getting on. You are in my thoughts so often. It will be great to read Baliey's progress reports as and when you post them.

Sending some scritches for your beautiful boy ---> cat_pet_icon
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Good morning to you all and thankyou for your warm welcome.
BJM thankyou,it is good to know you are around with your experience and wisdom.
Nadine,thankyou for your kind words,it will be good to get to know you and sweet Tibbs
Aine,hello again,thankyou,I hope you and your darling Saoirse are both well.
For no apparant reason Bailey has been throwing the odd stinky pink onto his ss over the past few weeks,but apart from that mostly yellows and blues so we can't grumble,this is such a unpredictable illness,I fail to understand it!,so as long as his demeanour is OK and he is doing his catty routine I try not to get too stressed out,and take it a day at a time.
Hope you are all having a peaceful weekend. Diane & Bailey
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Good Morning Diane

Of course you are welcome to post here. No one ever needs permission to post here or anywhere else that they like, but we always love having new faces around here.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Hello Mel,nice to hear from you,hope Maxwell and the fur gang are all well. X
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

gosh have just read all of these posts and can relate to all of this!
my boy is so hard to regulate, we switched to levermir which has set him back so back on lantus and climbing up the dosing scale.
I test all the time which is why I joined TR but I cant post every day or do the changes as per protocol as I work shifts. somes days 3am-11am,some days 1pm-9m,some days 7am-4pm,8-5 with a lunch hour which is why I do my shots at 1am/pm cos its the only time I know im home but I cant increase when im out for a 8/9 hour shift!
im having a nightmare at the mo with my boy,hes suffered neuropathy which I got back on track but feel like hes heading back to that after being on lev which just didn't suit him.
im so glad ive been guided here too.xx
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Anna, you're the first person I've heard of who did not have success in switching to Levemir. If you could, would you please share your experience with Levemir on this Think Tank thread? Even negative experiences will help us build more data about Levemir and how it works (or doesn't work in your case). :thumbup
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

it could've been my fault though for not raising his dose past 5.5 bu then wed had decent numbers on 5.25 on lantus but because his demeanor changed.i.e hiding out under the radiator.not wanting to know. I could progress or raise the dose anymore. my boys a one off. tests for EVERYTHING for high dose conditions and more but nothings come back yet at the mo on 6.5u of lantus.scary really!
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

KPassa said:
Anna, you're the first person I've heard of who did not have success in switching to Levemir. If you could, would you please share your experience with Levemir on this Think Tank thread? Even negative experiences will help us build more data about Levemir and how it works (or doesn't work in your case). :thumbup
Click to expand...
KPassa, if you're looking for how Lev works (or doesn't work) you might want to spend some time researching in the Lantus TR group. Beginning in 2007, we've had more Lev users posting in the group than have posted anywhere else on the FDMB. At times we've had roughly half Lantus users and half Levemir users. I haven't kept count for quite awhile now, but there for awhile we had about 30 lev users and 30 lantus users posting daily. The lev users stats for remission follow close behind those of lantus users when starting the tight regulation protocol with levemir within 6 months of diagnosis. If memory serves me well the research from Roomp and Rand indicate 84% for Lantus to 81% for Levemir.

We've had several users switch back to lantus from levemir. I also vaguely recall a few members switching back to PZI from levemir. It's too bad all we have left now is data from 2009. we lost so much information when we switched to this server and format.

Also, if you're interested in seeing how Levemir works since Roomp and Rand researched both Lantus and Levemir... take a look at Alex's spreadsheets. Alex was on and off Levemir since 2009. Her spreadsheets have been pretty well documented. With the exception of when she was having p-titis flares, liver & renal failure, etc., etc. she was probably one of the best tightly regulated Levemir kitties you've ever seen... if I do say so myself. :lol:
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Perhaps you might like to share your experience with Levemir on that post as well, Jill. It will help replenish the data that was lost as well as add more current experiences in one easy-to-find location.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

KPassa said:
Perhaps you might like to share your experience with Levemir on that post as well, Jill. It will help replenish the data that was lost as well as add more current experiences in one easy-to-find location.
Click to expand...
I thought your Think Tank thread was looking for caregivers who switched from Lantus to Levemir because they weren't thrilled with their results from Lantus. That doesn't apply to me. Therefore, I didn't think I could share what you were looking for. You see, I was very, very happy with Lantus. In 2006, after 3 months on Lantus Alex enjoyed almost 3 years OTJ. Can't beat that!

I simply replied here on this thread when I saw you mention, "Even negative experiences will help us build more data about Levemir and how it works (or doesn't work in your case)" to suggest where you might find tons of existing data on how Levemir works if you or anyone else is so inclined. I know Mikey was only diagnosed a couple of years ago so Levemir use may be relatively new to you, but a lot of us have been quite successful with it's use for many years now.

The only reason I even tried Levemir when Alex fell out of remission in 2009 was because there were so many Lev users in the Lantus TR ISG at the time. I wanted some hands-on experience in order to better help others. Alex took to Lev like a duck to water, but I do think when anyone switches to Lev (or any other insulin) caregivers are *usually* more successful simply because of the insulin experience they already have under their belt. They're not so nervous, scared and overwhelmed the second time around. I know I wasn't. It's not like being a newbie shooting insulin for the very first time. I think that prior experience is often overlooked when switching insulins is discussed. KWIM? Don't get me wrong. I love Levemir, but I love Lantus, too. Alex went OTJ on both Lantus and Levemir and her BG numbers were very well controlled the last several years of her life on Lev.

Yes, we lost the early Lev users experiences when we lost the old, old board. It's too bad. So much was lost beginning with Steve/Jock's initial Levemir experiences... basically starting from scratch and then followed by all that we learned about Levemir from the German-Katzen Board. Heck, the German-Katzen board was so good at what they were doing with Lantus and Levemir that Jacquie Rand threw out the TR protocol she had developed a few years earlier to team up with the German board. Together they researched Levemir and Lantus use. This joint venture resulted in the Tight Regulation Protocol... to my knowledge, the only current published research and TR protocol using Lantus OR Levemir for diabetic cats. The good news is there is plenty of Lev experience documented on this board and it's there for the taking! Luckily, there's no need for current and future Lev users to wear themselves out re-inventing the wheel thanks to all the Lev information you'll find in not only the Lantus TR ISG (starting with the Stickies), but on the Lev forum itself.
 
Re: What's the difference between the Relaxed and the TR for

Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I thought your Think Tank thread was looking for caregivers who switched from Lantus to Levemir because they weren't thrilled with their results from Lantus.
Click to expand...

It's for anyone who has used Levemir to be able to share their experiences with it, both bad and good. As I mentioned in the Think Tank thread, there isn't one location where "testimonials" for/against Levemir are collected, which is why I started it. As we all know, ECID and sometimes the TR Protocol doesn't work for certain cats for various reasons (part of the reason why the Relaxed Forum exists as mentioned by several people above). And some insulin doesn't work as well as other insulin in certain cats, either.

I'm sure people so inclined with the time can sit and browse the TR forum for Levemir users over the last four years, but that defeats the purpose of having information that is easily accessible to everyone, even those of us with limited time. There are plenty of people willing to re-share their Levemir experience in one location so it's worth taking advantage of that to help others who might be in similar situations. Plus, spreadsheets don't always tell the full tale. As is often said, our cats are more than just numbers and if there is a personality or pysiological difference (as seems to sometimes be the case with Levemir), that's not always noted on the spreadsheet.

Sorry, everyone, for getting so far off-track. Please continue to share your reasonings for joining (or wishing to join ;-) ) the Relaxed Forum. :thumbup
 
Since we have a brand new board, I wanted to bump this up to help bridge the gap and explain what Relaxed used to be to all the new members of LL. Most people already know what TR was but very few people seem to realize what Relaxed was.
 
This seems obsolete now since both those forums are closed permanently and there is only one new forum for everyone to post in. Maybe you want to start on new post on what you believe to be the difference between the two protocols, not the two forums? Since those forums are both gone.
 
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