What's going on here...?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rebecca & Charlie

Rebecca & Charlie

Member
Hello,

I'm new to this forum as my cat Charlie was only recently diagnosed with FD. Charlie just began ProZinc 4 days ago (Saturday May 26th). He's on 2 units twice per day. As you can see from the chart, his blood sugar levels are not coming down/staying down; but, rather they are going up today. I'm very concerned about his blood sugar measuring in the 500s today. Are these numbers the result of a rebound? There are no ketones in his urine---I check every day. I give Charlie his insulin shots 12 hours apart at the same time everyday. He is on a low-carb (below 10% carbs) and dry food-free diet. I feed him 4 evenly divided meals per day. Please, can someone help me understand what's going on here and if this is normal?

About Charlie:
Male, neutered
10 1/2 years old
17.11 lbs (overweight, and we are working to reduce his weight---he has already lost some since switching to low carb/wet food only)

Other Notes:
I use the g-Pet Plus glucose meter (calibrated for cats).
I'm American but currently live in Germany. Charlie's lab results are in German, and I'm not sure about some of the translations.

Thank you,
Rebecca
 
Hello and welcome to you and Charlie! First off, his BG levels...he's bouncing. He's had some low numbers (those 2 lime greens on the 27th and then the blue yesterday). Here's a great explanation of bouncing that Kris wrote:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
I'm sure that's what is happening here. It's not bad...we have lots of bouncy kitties...it just is what it is. If you look at the cycle today, you're getting those high numbers which is CLASSIC bouncing. After a low number (or lower than kitty is used to), you'll usually have a high, flat cycle. This is NOT BAD...he might feel a bit icky but really bouncing is rather common.

Since you're using a pet meter, I think you need to reduce the dose. The "take action" number on a pet meter is 68...you've been below that twice. Those lime greens tell me the dose is a bit too high. I think if he was mine, I'd drop to 1.75 and see if that helps.

I am SO GLAD you are home testing and testing for ketones. That's so important!

Please let us know what questions you have. We're mostly in the US and Canada here, so we may not be available right away, but it will probably get fairly busy around here in a few hours. I'm usually earliest on here during the week (Central Time Zone and early riser for work). Then we have some folks pop in later who are on the West Coast. We're MORE than happy to answer any questions you have. We'd love to help you and Charlie!

One thing, if you could, would you edit your title to remove the 911? We generally reserve that for emergencies where kitty is going hypo or something else that requires immediate attention is happening. We tend to panic when we see it. :)
 
Rachel said:
Hello and welcome to you and Charlie! First off, his BG levels...he's bouncing. He's had some low numbers (those 2 lime greens on the 27th and then the blue yesterday). Here's a great explanation of bouncing that Kris wrote:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
I'm sure that's what is happening here. It's not bad...we have lots of bouncy kitties...it just is what it is. If you look at the cycle today, you're getting those high numbers which is CLASSIC bouncing. After a low number (or lower than kitty is used to), you'll usually have a high, flat cycle. This is NOT BAD...he might feel a bit icky but really bouncing is rather common.

Since you're using a pet meter, I think you need to reduce the dose. The "take action" number on a pet meter is 68...you've been below that twice. Those lime greens tell me the dose is a bit too high. I think if he was mine, I'd drop to 1.75 and see if that helps.

I am SO GLAD you are home testing and testing for ketones. That's so important!

Please let us know what questions you have. We're mostly in the US and Canada here, so we may not be available right away, but it will probably get fairly busy around here in a few hours. I'm usually earliest on here during the week (Central Time Zone and early riser for work). Then we have some folks pop in later who are on the West Coast. We're MORE than happy to answer any questions you have. We'd love to help you and Charlie!

One thing, if you could, would you edit your title to remove the 911? We generally reserve that for emergencies where kitty is going hypo or something else that requires immediate attention is happening. We tend to panic when we see it. :)
Click to expand...

Hi Rachel,

Thank you so very, very much for responding so quickly! I'm so sorry about the "911", and I completely understand.

Do you know how long the "bouncing" usually lasts? Or, is this an ECID situation? If his BG continues to be really high, what should I do? I will try lowering to 1.75 units this evening. I thought with the insulin his blood sugar would return to normal rather quickly. But I have now come to realize that this probably isn't the case.

Earlier, Charlie didn't appear to feel well. But, he really seems to be okay right now. He just had lunch, and then he wanted to play; so, I played with him for about 15 minutes. Now, he's grooming and I'm sure a nap is next on his schedule. :) I hope this is a positive sign that he will be okay.

Again, thank you for your help. I am so grateful that I found the FD website and forum. I have learned so much on here already----of course, I have a lot more learning to do :).

Kind regards.
 
Hi Rebecca,

I agree with Rachel's advice. Also - I would lower his dose to 1.75 u this evening because of those lime green low numbers. It can always go up again if your BG numbers indicate it's necessary. It's common for a cat to have erratic numbers when first started on insulin.

Bouncing is very common and very frustrating! Some kitties calm down over time and some are always bouncy - my cat is. When bouncing happens you have to learn to look past those inflated numbers to see how low a dose has dropped the BG on a "no-bouncy" cycle (1 cycle That's why a few days' data at a dose is important. We can't make good judgments on only a few numbers. You're doing really well with testing! :)

It can take a long time to find the insulin dose that will regulate Charlie's BG. When we say regulate we mean pre shot BGs in the low to mid 200s and nadir BGs in the high double digits to low 100s consistently over time. This idea that regulation can take a long time is something that many people struggle with. We say here (often!) that it's a marathon, not a sprint.
 
No worries on the 911! I just didn’t want folks to panic. The forum takes some getting used to.

Bouncing is ECID. Could last one cycle could last up to 6. Over time start to figure out his patterns and know when a bounce is likely to break. With kick the reduction will help avoid more bouncing...it can be caused by too much insulin or just be a bouncy cat!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top