What to feed my diabetic cat in the UK

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I had been giving him a little of that Johnsons's hairball treatment now and then because it seems like he gets hairballs. He is an indoor cat.

But anyway, these vets seem to just want to put Moses to sleep. Its like they have it in their heads that its what is best. Because I had told the vet when this first happened that I didnt have that much money.

I was reading yesterday about a raw foods diet. And how that can make a cat get over their diabetes without insulin? But its hard for me to believe a cat could eat raw chicken. Yuck! I was reading that a recipe for that was on this site, but I cant find it?
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

I keep thinking of that one time when a cat we had taken in, which we named Maggie Mae, she suddenly went to where she wouldnt eat or drink a thing and turned into a skeleton almost overnight. I took her to the vet and he said there was nothing they could do and she needed to be put to sleep but I refused to do it. I took her home and started force-feeding her a half jar of veal baby food a day with a dropper full of water mixed with a little pure powdered charcoal to get rid of any impurities. And in about a week she coughed up a gigantic hairball, gained all her weight back quickly and before I knew it she was back to normal, playing around the house as usual. So I sort of have a distrust of Vets, anyway.

I just think that they know I dont have a carload of money and so they want to put Moses to sleep :(

That vet last night, when I asked if it was possible to get a cat back to normal with just diet and no insulin, he said no it isnt possible.
 
Hi Claudia,

Did you find out if your diabetic friend has Ketostix? As I was saying, if you could get hold of some of those then you can test Moses urine for ketones yourself and know if there is a problem there. The reason I'm suggesting this is that ketones - if present - can build up very quickly and become extremely dangerous. The condition they cause -diabetic ketoacidosis - is also very expensive to treat. So it's really, really important that you test Moses pee if you can.
 
No I checked and he said no he doesnt have any Ketostix.

But in about an hour and a half I am going to collect Mose's urine and take it to the Vet to check for that. I dont have a way to get there till then.
 
Claudia

Breathe hon....first off your vet is full of it. Yes a diabetic cat can be controlled with just diet, there is living proof sleeping on my bed at this very moment. And there are many many more on this board. Most but not all do require a little time on insulin so their pancreas can heal and take back over the job again of making their own insulin. And Moses may need a little insulin to jump start him too, but that should be no big deal.

Human meters work just fine, my own vet uses a human meter for her diabetic patients. But with your vets you may have to go in with a firm backbone and not ask but tell them how you want to treat YOUR cat. Remember the vet works for you, not the other way around. My vets are awesome but when I first started out with diabetic cats they weren't great with feline diabetes, they just don't see that many of them. But they were open minded and I was firm. I told them I wanted to treat and no I didn't need a bunch of fancy tests nor did I need them to run curves in the office. All I need was a script for their insulin, and in my case I told them exactly which insulin I wanted for my cats. I took in documentation from here to show why I wanted what I wanted, that I had done my homework. I even offered to sign a waiver if necessary stating it was my choice to treat this cat this way.

You can test for Ketones at home just like a human diabetic will, the strips are very cheap. You just simply stick them in fresh urine, wait 15 seconds and match the color on the little stick to the color chart on the side of the bottle to read.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I just posted and it disappeared!

Was just saying don't believe a vet if he says you can't control FD with diet alone - it can be possible and you may be one of the lucky ones. Could you ring around a couple of other vets and ask their opinion in principle on this? Not all vets are as clued-up as others on FD. They don't have much training in it and only some take it upon themselves to study in more depth.

I'd also suggest starting a new thread asking for support about vets, ie not just UK foods. You'll get replies from our American friends and that support may be what you need to keep going. This is a long hard road and we all need all the support we can get.

Best of luck
Diana
 
Okay MommaofMuse...

Lets see what this urine test comes out like today and I will take it from there then.

The good news, is it seems he is doing better today.

All day he has kept on wanting me to hold him on my shoulder. I get him up on my shoulder and walk around with him, patting his back and his behind, I have done that since he was a kitten. He ... as usual, was a big baby going to the vet, so I think he needed extra love today.
 
Dianne,

Yes I saw two different vets there at the same office... one the first time I brought him in for this problem and another one last night and they both told me it wont matter what I feed him.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
Yes I saw two different vets there at the same office... one the first time I brought him in for this problem and another one last night and they both told me it wont matter what I feed him.
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Well, I'm afraid you may have to be a little more tenacious - try ringing other vet practices, not just different ones at the same place. Quite a few of us on this board have transferred vets to one that is better-versed in FD. I changed mine to one who would prescribe the insulin I wanted, rather than staying with my other, long-standing one who insisted Caninsulin was the only insulin suitable for cats. Sometimes vets just need educating!

Diana
 
Claudia, in the US, a bottle of 50 Ketostix or KetoDiastic from the pharmacy usually costs about half of what it costs to have a vet dip a single stick into a sample of urine. With finances being an issue for you, a test at home might be the better way to go.

But you do have other reasons to take Mose to the vet. But you were only talking about taking his urine there, so....
 
Hey Claudia,
Is he walking normally today? If he's still 'wobbly' due to his diabetes then that can be fixed.
Don't worry about having a vet with bad info. On this board there are hundreds of examples of diabeticats who have their disease controlled by diet alone.
I have spoken with 5 of them about Milo now (all at the same practice) and they all have different views. Had I followed the first vet's advice Milo would be dead now. It took me a few weeks to convince them to change his insulin & he's doing really well now. As the others of said, we can't expect all vets to be diabetes experts, because they have to see patients of many different species with many different problems.
Let us know how the ketone wee test goes?
We'll try & sort him out one step at a time.

J
xx
 
Personally if it was me, I would get the ketostixs, test Moses at home and if he is negative on ketones I would ring up the vet and tell them to apply what I just paid for a pointless urine test to a future bill for his insulin or they can refund you your money. That you have decided that you want to treat his diabetes and will not consider put to sleep until you give it a go. That they can either work with you, or you will be shopping for a new vet that will.

But that is just my 2 cents worth.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I tend to agree with Mel - stand your ground with the vet and show them how dedicated an owner you are. Sometimes vets are quite open to being educated by us mere mortals, and by doing our bit to inform them with our own experiences, they can pass on that experience/knowledge to future patients. The thing is, it is important for most of us to have our vet on side and it's true that they are the health professionals who actually see the cat, so you need one I think who you really feel you can trust and wants the best for you.

Diana
 
When they do a urine test for the ketosis do they also test for blood sugar?

I ask because last night he was looking at Moses records and commenting on how high it was with the last test about a month or so ago.

I am wondering, if they test again for the sugar and see it has dropped dramatically, they might tend to listen to me more?
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
When they do a urine test for the ketosis do they also test for blood sugar?
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if they're using the ketodiastix, then they will be testing for glucose in the urine too.

However, blood glucose gives much more information. If you can test him at home (which you can), then test him & let the vet know your reading. They will only do a blood glucose test if you pay for it.

But, if they are not listening to you, Claudia, even when you show them you can blood test at home, then you should try a different vet.
 
My problem is that I have no transportation and cant walk there because of my disability. And this vet is the one that is close. Its very frustrating.
 
Well, if you are stuck with this practice, then you are simply gonna have to be persuasive & stick to your guns, OK?

You know what's good for Moses, you've known him a long time. You know what kind of food to give him now he's diabetic, and If you can blood test, then you can give insulin, if he needs it.

The vet needs to prescribe the insulin (if/when necessary), but we can help you.

Now what's happening with those ketones?
 
I finally got Moses to go wee, and my friend had his own blood tests done today and the Doctor just called for him to come in about it, and so he is now on his way with Mose's urine to stop and drop that off at the Vet and then he will go to his own Doctor's visit.

So all I have to do now is wait till the Vet calls, after they run the test on it.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
I finally got Moses to go wee,...So all I have to do now is wait till the Vet calls, after they run the test on it.
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We're all keeping fingers and paws crossed for you about that test, Claudia.

A quick word about Moses' food:
I know he's still getting constipated and that's something that needs to be resolved. But to keep his blood glucose levels lower it is important to stick to wet/canned food if at all possible. Maybe he does just need a different type?

I'm re-posted my list from yesterday because the post disappeared. These are just some of the foods that are available from supermarkets (the ones I've had the time to do the carb calculations for).

Butcher’s Classic, 8.8
Asda - Tiger Pouch with Chicken & Turkey in Jelly, 7.8
Asda - Tiger Foil Tasty Meat Selection Pack (higher protein pate style), 2.7
Asda -Tiger Pouch Meat Favourites in Jelly, 7.8
Felix foils meat selection, 7.2
Sainsbury's Cat Food, Meat & Fish Selection In Jelly, 2
Sainsbury's Chunks In Jelly With Salmon 100g, 2
Sainsbury's Cat Food, Smooth Pâté With Chicken & Rabbit 100g, 7
Sainsbury's For Senior Cats, Pouches In Jelly 12x100g, 2

There is also Toplife Chicken Dinner available from Asda in tetra packs. I couldn't find the protein/fat/moisture analysis for this one online but understand that it is less than 10% calories from carbs.

The Whiskas 'simply grilled' that you're feeding Moses at the moment is a tad high in carbs for a diabetic cat. According to the label it comes out at around 10.4% calories from carbs.

When looking for other foods I would suggest you avoid any cat food that has 'vegetable protein extract' on the label. In some cats this ingredient can really elevate the blood glucose.

You also asked about giving Moses raw food. It's perfectly OK to give Moses treats or snacks of ordinary raw meat if he will eat it. But feeding cats raw food as the bulk of their diet is a bit more complicated... Raw meat on it's own isn't a complete food. (It's rather like giving a cat 'fillet of mouse' rather than 'the whole mouse'...if you see what I mean...) So, plain meat needs to have other things added to it to make it a complete food. But if Moses comes to like snacks or treats of raw meat then maybe making raw food is something to consider in the future...?
 
Thanks so much I copied and pasted all of that!

The Vet told my friend when he dropped off the urine sample that they'd call either tonight or tomorrow to let me know the results, unless it needs to be sent off for further tests. I am guessing that if it needs to be sent off, that must mean bad news.
 
With a "send-off" test, I suspect that they are having a urinalysis done, which would not include a urinary ketone test.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
But its hard for me to believe a cat could eat raw chicken. Yuck!
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Its only YUCK to us humans...remember in the wild they would be eating all kinds of little critters like mice, gophers, birds, moles etc and I have yet to meet a cat that could cook let alone build a fire to do so...lol :lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously mine all love treats of raw meat, and Autumn I think would crawl over broken glass to get to a chunk of raw chicken, in fact it was what I used to reward her for being nice to the other kitties when I first adopted her, since she went so crazy for it, it was perfect thing to reward her when she would allow the other cats to approach her or when she would play nice with them.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Seriously? wow raw chicken... I might have to give that a try... and if he doesnt like it I could make chicken loaf out of it :lol:
 
And at least raw chicken doesn't come with feathers like say a sparrow or fur like a mouse...lol. Seriously cats are carnivorses so they like raw meat. And the only real difference between the kitties on our couches and lions and tigers is size.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
nailbite_smile it looks like they are not going to call me today, its after 8:00 at night here now.

I have to try and not worry

Although it could be because he took in the urine sample so late... like after 4:00 or so and it closes at 6.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
nailbite_smile it looks like they are not going to call me today, its after 8:00 at night here now.

I have to try and not worry

Although it could be because he took in the urine sample so late... like after 4:00 or so and it closes at 6.
Click to expand...

(((Claudia))), I know it's worrying. Every time something happens to Bertie I feel that it knocks a few years off my own life just through the sheer stress of it all! Cats, eh? :roll:

But the chances are that Moses will be just fine.

Give Moses a big hug, and try to get some good sleep tonight.
 
Okay I will do that :)

You know whats strange? Today Moses came and hopped up on my lap when I was sitting in my chair, which he has not done for a couple of years. He has acted like his skin bothers him for some reason. Maybe that was the onset of the diabetes. But anyway he came right up and hopped up in my lap today.

Maybe he was just happy he didnt get left at the Vets office.

Poor kitty, he has been through 4 airplane flights and moved 6 different houses since just 2007. Having to get a bunch of vacinnations to be able to come to the UK. Thats why I just hate having to take him to the vet.

But anyway it was super nice having him jump into my lap today.
 
Okay I just called them a few minutes ago. The lady at the desk said she didn't see anything on there but she would have the Vet give me a ring.
 
I just got a call from the Vet. It turns out he is an Assistant Vet that checked Moses the other night, But anyway he said the good news is that Moses did NOT have any ketones in his urine. But he said he still has high blood sugar though.

Then I told him that I had been going to an online forum and talking with people who have dealt with many diabetic cats and many of them had gone into remission.

I said that some of them had been able to do their own tests at home and bypass the tests at the Vet so that the cost went down. And I asked if I could be able to do that. I said that Ive got £80 now, and in a couple of weeks I would have about £180. And I wondered if I could be able to make payments. Because, I said... Moses still plays with me, and I feel really badly, I dont want to put him to sleep if its possible to get this diabetes under control.

He said he understands and that he was just an Assistant but that he would email Del, the main Vet there that had seen Moses the first time about his problem. He said he would ask if we could set up a payment plan.

He said that they would still have to do all the tests, because they have to do that, because if he's got other problems then it could be more difficult to get things under control, but that they have to check him for various problems.

So how's that? He doesnt have ketones in his urine, and I became more assertive with him about everything. :)
 
I forgot to add that also, Moses was limping this morning. He does that once in awhile since this all happened to him. But he didnt throw up this morning, and I told the Vet all of that.

I also told him what I think now is the problem. I said, I think it is because when this first happened. Moses kept losing alot of weight. But then recently I have been feeding him alot of food, and he has been getting really fat in his belly, he looks like he is having kittens any moment, but his body frame, his bones are like a skinny cat. And I think its hard for him to carry around his belly like that, and that I think the nutrients are not being absorbed properly into the rest of his body.

He said I was probably right about that.

Then I said, that is why I want to talk to you about something and ask a question... because I think if he could just start on the insulin and start absorbing his nutrients into his body properly, he might be alright... then I started asking about a payment plan etc..
 
Way to Go!!! Sounds like things are starting to move in the right direction for you and Moses...and we will all be here cheering you on. Not sure you saw this recent post http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88994 but perhaps you could either print it out and take it to your vet or talk with Milo's mom and see if her vet will talk to your vet about them. It might be better received from a peer by your vet. Or even offer your vet a link to our site as well as Moses spreadsheet so they can track him along with you...Who knows you and Moses may also help to broaden their horizons for future diabetic kitties in the UK.

Best of Luck and cheers from across the pond.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Hi,

Moses is doing okay. I had a loan person come to my house yesterday and she will come back today. I am seeing about getting a loan so I can pay for everything, doing the tests, etc. And right when she was going out the back door, my mobile phone rang and by the time I got to it, there was just a message and it turns out it was from my Vet... the main one. He said he would call me back today. So hopefully its to discuss with me about making payments.

So I will have to see what happens today.
 
Claudia, it's good to hear from you. :smile:

Is Moses just eating low carb canned/wet food now? No dry food at all?

And have you managed to get any more blood test results from him?
 
Yes he is eating all wet food now. I cannot do another blood test or anything on him at the moment. He is mad at me. I tried to brush his teeth the other day. (with no luck)

His breath is awful and I think he may have a sore tooth. Two years ago he got his teeth cleaned and two teeth removed.
 
Hi Claudia, I'm sorry to hear Moses may have a sore tooth - dental problems are not at all uncommon in cats and sometimes can contribute to high BGs, so something else to take into account. Maybe you can mention this to your vet so he is aware of the overall situation - it will help him to help Moses if he knows these things.
I know it's a lot to take on board, both emotionally and financially, and I really sympathise. I can only say that a sympathetic vet should understand and do his utmost to help you.
Good luck
Diana
 
Hi,

The Vet never did call me back and neither did the Loan Company.

I am starting to wonder about everything now. I worry about Moses because of his ears. He had polyps in his ears and it was driving him mad and he had an operation to remove them. Now they are coming back. The Vet had told me before, that even if they can manage to get the diabetes under control that when his polyps come back he would need to have another operation.

The cost of all of these tests plus another ear operation, plus his teeth getting cleaned, is just out of this world for me. I called the other day and it is £150 just to get his teeth cleaned. Its well over £300 for all these tests. Then £300 for his ear operation. I only am getting £200 a month. Right now I am spending alot of money like £27 for a case of Liquivite, and £30 for a case of Gourmet Gold, and £14 for a case of Whiskas wet food, plus £12 every two weeks for his cat litter. I barely have anything left for myself to live on.

When I took him in the other night, when I thought that he was getting ketosis, it cost me £50. The Assistant Vet told me over the phone the other day that its going to be £40 a month for his insulin.

What I am worried about is that I would actually manage to get him on insulin and him get ketosis, and me not have the money to even take him in for emergency treatment.

I am wondering if ... realistically, he would be better off if I just left him on this wet food diet and left it at that. He seems well enough off and happy.

One of the reasons I am worried also, is that this friend of mine who I am staying with, who is a diabetic, he is on insulin and they checked his blood the other day and its up to 20.0 or more, I cant remember the exact reading. Thats as much as Moses was at, when I first checked him. So I worry I will get Moses on Insulin and if it does the same thing, that his levels could get right back to where they were, when he is already on insulin, and then he would probably worse off than he already is now.

I just wonder that if he gets on insulin, he would be dependent upon that, and if his levels raise anyway, if this would make it get so far out of control that there would be nothing I could do about it.

I just dont know enough about all of this, and honestly, I wonder if I would be making things worse for Moses by trying to get him on insulin, when perhaps I wouldnt have the money to be able to follow through on it all. Then I worry if I got him on insulin, if something happened and I couldnt afford to keep him on it, and what would happen then if he is suddenly taken off of it.

Plus the ear polyp thing as well. Seriously, I would do just anything for this cat. But now I am wondering if I would only make things worse for him. Because my money situation plus his ear problems, etc... makes his situation unique.
 
Also, I would like to look into this raw foods diet, to see if I couldnt perhaps get Moses all better just using that. It would make me feel more at ease with the whole thing that way.
 
Also, I really do believe it was the ear operation that caused this whole thing. Because it was soon after that, that Moses started having the diarhea and then the thirst, and then the
wee-ing all the time. They gave him antibiotics.

So I am just trying to be realistic about things so that in my love for him and my zeal for him to get better, I dont actually end up making things worse for him.
 
Hi Claudia,

My heart goes out to you. I know that you love Moses very much, and fully understand that your limited income is making things really difficult.

But there are things you can do.

I believe that the single most useful thing you can do for Moses right now is to get more accustomed to testing his blood glucose. And, given that your friend can get supplies for you, this shouldn't cost you anything at all.

It would be SO helpful to know what Moses' blood glucose levels are like now the dry food has been removed. Knowing this will give us a much more accurate picture of how advanced Moses' diabetes is.

Yes, it may be that Moses does need to go onto insulin. But that might only be for a short time. And if you can hometest this will save you a lot of money in vet's bills. If Moses does need to go onto insulin then the sooner that happens the better his chances of not needing insulin in the future.

Regarding insulin, am I right in thinking that you have some Caninsulin that Juliet sent you? That should reduce your initial cost. And it's possible too to buy some supplies online too and save money that way.

If Moses is on insulin it is far less likely that he will get ketosis.

Regarding ketones, if you PM me your address I will send you a tub of Ketodiastix so that you can test Moses' pee at home for ketones and glucose ongoingly.

We really want to help you, Claudia.

Hugs to you,

Elizabeth

PS. Regarding raw food, I suggest you try Moses with tiny bits of raw meat to see if he will actually eat that. If he does eat the little bits of raw meat then maybe it's possible to look at feeding raw meat as a larger part of his diet. If it looks like being a possibility, we can help you learn how to do that.
 
Claudia,

It is possible to buy insulin online with a prescription from your vet. The vet can charge for a prescription (up to £15 I think) but even including the prescription cost it could save you quite a bit of money. I just looked online at Medicanimal. Their price for a 10ml bottle of Caninsulin is currently £13.49. So with the prescription charge that would be £28.49. And if I remember correctly the Caninsulin lasts a lot longer than a month. I'm sure my bottles lasted well over 2 months if stored properly in the fridge. And if you are hometesting you will know if the insulin is losing potency.

Yes, there is the cost of syringes too, but these can also be bought online.

I'm pretty sure this can be done for less than £40 month!

The link to Medicanimal is here:
http://www.medicanimal.com/product/...B8F9D653823944FA3E35AC846502C8E.jvm1#pp_tabs3

Edited to add: Just did a quick calculation and the cost of 2 boxes of 30 syringes and half a bottle of Caninsulin could come to around £31 per month.
 
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