What to feed my diabetic cat in the UK

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yesterday I ordered some Liquivite and so they normally gets his poo back to normal if it is hard this way. I just cant understand why wet food would do this to him? Its so weird. I dont even have a blender right now, I guess I can try mashing it with a fork. I tried that last night but it didnt work too well. I have a whole case of 48 pouches of Whiskas wet food with the jelly. I guess for now I will have to keep mashing it till I finally can add water and mix it up.

I am confused about something. I was reading online that if you take away all the dry food from your cat and he is on just wet food, it will quickly bring his BG (whatever that means) down low, to where if he isnt on insulin, it can cause hypoglycemia? is that true?

This is one thing I am worried about, I feel like suddenly I have to become a Doctor and I dont want to kill Moses myself by trying to help him. LOL! Not even funny I know.. but I worry I could make things even worse.
 
A change in diet always produces upset tummies. Same for us, same for our kitties.
I gave Milo a teaspoon of olive oil because he hadn't had a poo in 3 days. I regret that now, as does my lounge rug & my kitchen floor! It certainly worked....a little too well...and it also made him sick. :cry: Turns out he had a MASSIVE hairball, which I stepped in at 2am this morning. :-D

As for BG (blood glucose), it won't lower it to hypoglycaemic levels. Only insulin will do that. It should bring it down to a much more comfortable level for Moses, though.

It may take a week or 2 for a kitty to get used to a radical change in his diet. Stick at it & keep mashing!
 
Okay I took note of the last two posts and I do have some olive oil and will try that today.

Speaking of hairballs...

Also I just want to add that I have just about NO confidence in Doctors anymore. Years ago, for instance, I had this cat that came wandering up to the house and I named her Maggie Mae and started keeping her inside. One day she started being very ill and really quickly lost weight and looked like a walking skeleton. I took her to the vet and he said there was "nothing he could do for her and she would have to be put to sleep". So I said NO and took her home and started praying, since I believe in God. I asked God what to do, and just started doing some home remedy stuff on my own, just using common sense. Since she would not eat at all, I went and bought some veal baby food and an eye dropper and some powered charcoal. Every day I forced-fed her a jar of the baby food and forced a couple of eye droppers full of water down her throat, and in one of them put a little of the powdered charcoal. I knew charcoal absorbs poisons.

Anyway, in about a week Maggie Mae coughed up a gigantic hairball and very quickly started gaining weight and got totally back to normal. The next time I took her to the vet he was totally in shock that she was normal again. So that, along with the fact that I believe this other Vet place messed up my cat Moses, it all just has caused me to completely lose confidence in Vets. And this is one reason it is SO HARD for me to want to take Moses BACK to the Vet to do all these tests then have them prescribe insulin etc. I do realize this is completely different than what was going on with Maggie Mae, if Moses is diabetic however, and thats why I am here, asking what to do.
 
Morning, Claudia,

'BG' is FDMB-speak for 'blood glucose levels' . You will also see people refer to BG 'numbers'; (when we test the cats' blood on the glucose meter a 'number' indicating the glucose level will show on the little screen).

Dry food can increase BG levels, so, removing dry food and switching to wet food can lower the BG levels (in some cats quite dramatically). So, for a cat already on insulin removing dry food has to be done with great care so as to avoid the BG dropping too low and causing hypoglycaemia. For a cat NOT on insulin removing dry food is a very good thing to do! A cat NOT on insulin is not at risk from 'hypo' and lower numbers are desirable.

So, for cats not yet on insulin we always advise removing the dry food before insulin therapy begins. It's much easier that way.

I'm sorry to hear the Moses is constipated. Digestive problems are always a possibility when the food is changed. It might take his little body a little while to adjust.

In the US folks often use Miralax but we can't get that easily in the UK. We can buy it from the US but it takes a couple of weeks to get here. However, a lot of people here use ordinary 'liquid paraffin' for their pets' constipation. It's available quite cheaply from pharmacies. You can put a teensy drizzle of that on your cats food to ease it's passage through the system...so to speak.... Some people also add a tsp of mashed cooked pumpkin or squash when introducing a new food, as it has a calming effect on the gut and seems to help with both constipation and 'dire rear' (diarrhoea!). As Juliet ('Dr Schrodinger') says you can also add a little extra fat to the cats diet in the form of olive oil or a little bit of butter, but too much could cause dire-rear or make your cat puke....
 
Dr Schrodinger said:
Turns out he had a MASSIVE hairball, which I stepped in at 2am this morning. :-D
Click to expand...

A furball! Well, thank goodness he got rid of that, Juliet. That's going to make Milo feel a whole lot better! You may even see some better BGs... (Shame about your floor, though... ;-) )
 
I tried to find a can of pumpkin online at Tescos (dont have a car so I have to buy everything online now) but they dont seem to have it. I sort of forgot about it, but thanks for reminding me. Maybe since I am now staying with this friend, he can go take a look in Morrisons or one of the other stores. He usually walks to the nearby stores to grocery shop.

I had been using Johnson's hairball treatment stuff. But I read that some hairball treatment stuff can be harmful. It just says mineral oil though on the ingredients.
 
I HAVE SOME TESTING SUPPLIES NOW

Okay, now my friend here that I am staying with, who is a diabetic, gave me some of his testing supplies. So please tell me if I have all the right stuff now? (except for the Insulin and the thing to inject that with, of course)

1.8 boxes of Accu-Check Sterile Lancets --200+4 Lancets
2.Accu-Chek Multiclix Pen to prick with
3.Ascensia Contour Monitor
4.3 containers of 50 -Contour Blood Glucose Test Strips

So how am I doing now? is this all the correct stuff that I can use for testing a Cat?
 
Yes, Claudia, that looks like everything you need to test your cat's blood glucose!

Here is a link to some info and good pics that show the process in detail:
http://www.sugarpet.net/bloodtst.html

How is Moses with having his ears touched? If he's not keen on that then you can get him used to it by giving the ear a little massage and then giving him a treat. Also, some cats are perturbed intially by the sound of the lancet device against their ear. So, again, you can accustom Moses to this by clicking it near him and then giving a little treat or a cuddle. If you have any vaseline handy a teesny smidge of this on the edge of the ear can help the blood to 'bead up' (and not disappear into the fur) to give you enough for a test.

Edited to add; It's really helpful if the ear is warm (it bleeds more easily) so some people use a small pill bottle filled with warm water that they hold against the inside of the cats ear for a few moments (there is a pic of this on the link I posted above).
 
Yipee! thats good.

Now I just want to get his poo back to normal before I do this testing, I think. Because I want to make sure I can keep him off the dry food first to get the right readings.

(I dont have a clue what I am doing yet but it makes sense to me)

Someone told me about Hi Life Pate that you can get from Morrisons, and so I am looking online now for cases of that for sale. I figure if I use mostly that, since someone told me it will bring his levels of whatever down... along with the Liquivite now and then, which is basically kitty cat chicken soup http://www.liquivite.co.uk/ --that I should be all set to maintain his diet without going back to the dry food.

...Then I can start with this testing, after I look again online about how to do it, and also ask my friend to show me how to do it.

The only thing is that this site that tells how to test on the cats ear... it says to stick this thing in his ear to heat it up first, to get the blood flowing. But I am going to have to hope I can be able to skip the heating up his ear part since he has the polyps in his ear. I would rather do it on his ear rather than on the bottom of his foot, I think. I guess I will have to just try it when the time comes and see what happens.

I havent got a clue about how often and when to do this testing, but I will read up on that too. From what I gather its like 2 times a day or up to 4 times daily, using this Dr Hodgkins Protocal Tight Regulation thing. I found it online and will have to read through it again. And I was looking at the attachment that MommaforMuse has on her posts, with the chart, so when it comes time I will probably be asking you how to make the chart etc.

I know Ive been a pain but its just that I like to totally know what I am doing before I do it. Because honestly I think I have a learning disability or something, or else I am just dumb LOL! I feel like now I have to become a "Doctor" instantly... I mean I just about faint if a Nurse even does a blood test on ME... I hate needles. BUT I am going to have to forget about that and just bite the bullet so to speak and be brave for my kitty's sake. I ordered a case of Liquivite yesterday. Hopefully today I will be able to buy enough of the HiLife Pate to keep his diet consistent.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
I havent got a clue about how often and when to do this testing, but I will read up on that too. From what I gather its like 2 times a day or up to 4 times daily, using this Dr Hodgkins Protocal Tight Regulation thing. I found it online and will have to read through it again.
Click to expand...

Hi Claudia,

Regarding how often to test, we recommend that as a minimum it's essential to test before giving each insulin shot. Then, especially initially, it's important to get other test results taken during the insulin cycle to see how the insulin is working in your cat. When you get used to how the insulin is working in your cat then you will probably be able to target your testing more effectively and may actually do fewer tests thoughout the cycle (though will always need to test before giving insulin). Regular testing will help to ensure that Moses is always getting an appropriate dose of insulin. And we can help you with that. :smile:

At this stage, blood tests would be helpful just to ascertain how advanced Moses' diabetes is. Also, it would be useful to get him used to testing at this stage before he goes onto insulin.

Regarding the 'Hodgkins Protocol', that is just one way of using insulin with cats and is used as the sole way of using insulin on sites such as 'Diabetic Cat Care' and 'Your Diabetic Cat'. We don't have a set protocol here on FDMB. People use a number of different techniques. Every cat is an individual and we aim to help each cat find a way of managing the diabetes that is specific to them.
 
Elizabeth

okay, so what I'd like to ask is this then.... Should I WAIT to start doing this testing until I go take him to the Vet for the additional testing? since all they did so far was the urine test?

OR is it better to do this testing on my own first, and THEN take the test results with me to the Vets so he can see it before they do the testing?

Because I was reading online that at home, the cat will be more relaxed and that you can get more accurate tests that way.

Also when they do this, like keep him all day, so they not give him anything to eat at all? like fasting all day?

Another thing is, do I have to have a Vet prescription before I can even be able to GET any kind of insulin?

The way it looks like now, the reality of it is, that I am going to have to save every bit of money I have for the next 6 weeks before I can take him to the Vet for these extra tests. Except I have to buy cat litter and food for my kitty, of course. But I can only do what I can and so this is what I am going to have to do. Since it doesnt seem like the Vet is going to call me back with any sort of a payment plan. But at least for now I could be able to get Moses on the all wet food and do testing at home.
 
Claudia,

Switching to wet food and starting to test Moses' blood at home now would be a great plan! :smile:

In fact, if you get comfortable with testing Moses' blood at home now it is possible that your vet will be OK with you doing the necessary tests (when Moses goes onto insulin) rather than have Moses spend the day at the vet clinic... If the vet was OK with that then it would save you a heap of money AND the results you get at home would almost certainly be more accurate than you'd get at the vets, because Moses would be acting normally in his home environment. However, you would need to be comfortable with testing Moses BGs though because you'd be doing a test about every 2 hours (or maybe even one hour apart in the middle of the cycle) to see how the insulin was working in Moses' body.

Yes, you DO need a prescription from a vet to get insulin.
 
Gourmet Gold -Ocean Fish Pate

Does anyone know if that is a good food for a diabetic cat to eat?

I tried it a minute ago on Moses and he just loves it!

It would help alot with his constipation problem with the wet food, since it is all ground up, I think. The only thing is that there isn't much of it in the little can.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
...Gourmet Gold -Ocean Fish Pate: Does anyone know if that is a good food for a diabetic cat to eat?
Click to expand...
That looks fine, Claudia. :smile: I've just done a calculation using the analysis %'s on the label and it looks like about 5.1% of the calories come from carbs (for a diabetic we're looking for less than 10%).

Have you tried to get a blood test from Moses yet? I'm really wondering what his blood glucose levels are like now that the dry food is out of his system.
 
Elizabeth,

I havent yet done a blood test with Moses, I was actually thinking of doing that tonight when my friend gets home, since he is a diabetic and can show me how to use all of these gadgets for testing.

But I am kind of worried about totally cutting out dry food from Mose's diet just yet because yesterday his poo was just rock hard and has stayed that way since then till even today.

You see, because he has this wanting to drink all the time problem with thirst and I can see that his poo is so dry, almost like plastic on the outside with nothing in it... I am worried about dehydration. I know that laxatives and even something natural like olive oil, will help him go to the bathroom, but STILL it seems to me that it means that he isnt getting enough water. So I want to make good and sure that he is getting enough water before doing anything drastic.

I did notice that his poo is slightly less dry this morning, but I am not sure whether that is due to the 1 tsp of olive oil I added to his wet food yesterday or whether it is due to giving him that more "wet" pate stuff last night, the Gourmet canned food, I mean. I would like to get a blender, but cant afford it right now... I went online at Tescos and the only was I saw was quite expensive for me. So I asked my friend if he knew of anyone who could give me a used one. I am hoping from a thrift store I could get one. I want to blend water in with his wet food. He has a pack of 48 Whiska's wet food pouches but it seems that the meat in it is so ... well, "meaty" that it makes Moses' poo get all dried out. Saying that, I just realized I can now try mixing some water WITH that Gourmet food stuff. Except my friend only got two of those yesterday and Moses liked those so much he already ate them. I gave him a can of Liquivite this morning to hopefully alleviate his drying out problem.

But anyway I guess that tonight I could, in spite of all that... go ahead and just try and do one of these blood tests when my friend gets home. Then after he shows me how to do it, I will know how to, on my own after that. Also I was waiting on this guy who did the video of sticking the thing in the cat's ear to heat it up so that when you do a blood test, it will get the blood flowing-- I was waiting on him to answer me back about that, which he did just about an hour ago. He said I can try it without doing to heating and see if it works. (because Moses has polyps developing in his ears again).

Moses does seem all purry and happy today. Of course he will probably be going, "Okay, WHY are you sticking needles in my ears?" later on tonight , though LOL! confused_cat
 
also, I have been wondering if Moses may have ANOTHER problem besides the blood sugar problem. It just seems weird that the wet food causes such problems. It USED to make his poo even more diarhea- like... then suddenly one day it started making it rock hard dry instead, which seems pretty weird to me.
 
Changes of diet can cause tummy problems, both constipation and diarhhoea. But it should settle down...

Claudia, what tests did the vet do to diagnoses Moses' diabetes?
Was it a single blood test? Urine test? 'Fructosamine' test?
And do you remember the vet telling you any blood glucose numbers at all?
 
All they did at the Vets was give me a little packet thing to take home with me and I got a urine sample from Moses.

Then the Vet called me on the phone and he said that Moses had a high amount of sugar in his urine.

That's all that has happened so far, as far as tests go.
 
Here is the information that I wrote down for today:


Moses' blood test reading on feet:

10:10 AM on Jan 13, 2012
21.9 mmol/L

Lancet device or pen setting at almost the deepest: Number 5
(Number 6 is the deepest setting)

Monitor was Contour XT and the Test Strips are Contour Next

Using these devices makes it where you dont have to scoop up the blood, it draws it in itself. My friend let me use this monitor and test strips that he uses, today.

The way that I did it was that I held Moses upside down in my lap with his head towards me... and my friend here drew the blood and put it in the Monitor. I tried it with putting him on an armchair upside down but he wiggled too much. At least for now though it gives me a way to do it... for starters.
 
Claudia, well done for getting that test! Great job! :smile:

Yes, a BG number of 21.9 (394 in US numbers) means that Moses is certainly diabetic and will need insulin to get that blood glucose level down.

The number may drop a little when the dry food is completely phased out. And it would be good to phase out the dry before Moses goes onto insulin. But he really should start insulin therapy as soon as is possible. Sorry about that...
 
Okay, I remember that when I had seen the vet with Moses the other day, he told me we had to do a urine test to start with, which I already did that and sent it in and the vet said the blood sugar levels were high and that we needed to do more tests.

So I asked him how much that would cost, and he added it up on his computer monitor and he said £130.

Now I have £34 in my account and on the 25th of January I will have £105 more, which would give me just enough for these tests plus the taxi ride to get there.

But when he talked to me on the phone the other day to let me know about Moses' urine test results and that he was probably diabetic, I was sort of in shock, to be honest... and after he kept talking I sort of phased him out LOL! he mentioned something about £300 but now I cant remember what that was all about. Maybe he meant when I get all the insulin and test stuff and syringes etc... or maybe he was talking about something else entirely.

But anyway so someone on the Private message board told me I need to get Moses in to the Vet ASAP ...

SO I just called the Vet place which is open Sundays I found out,.. from 11:00-12. And I told the receptionist all this and that I wanted to have the additional tests done and that I would have the £130 on January 25. So she told me she was going to tell Del Barker, my cat's new vet, and he would call me back on this. (He should be Del Meow instead of Del Barker) LOL!

Oh wow I just cant believe this is all happening! ahhh! I actually did a blood test on Moses.

I am just going to worry about any additional expenses later, when I come to it. But if I have enough for these tests I am just going to go ahead an do it then.

I hateeee having to stick Moses at the vets all day long like they said, but I guess I just have to do it. I will tell this Vet when he calls me, what the monitor reading was.

Fortunately, because we were moving and were not going to have the internet for a whole month till BT connected us... I had bought extra food and cat food and litter from Tescos, just in case I wouldnt be able to get online to buy any, and so if I can go get these tests done, I will have enough food and what-not to get by for the time being.

Wish me luck!
 
OH man ! this really ticks me off. The Receptionist from the vets office called again, and not the Vet.

She told me I will have to come in again now for another Consultation with the Vet, which is going to cost me £14.98. And I have got to bring Moses in with me AGAIN.
And since I cant come in till after the 25th when I get some money, the earliest they have available is Jan 29th.

I asked her WHY I have to do this and it just doesnt make any sense to me at all. She said its going to be a double appointment for 20 minutes. The vet is going to go over everything with me, she said. And IF they do the tests that day, then I pay the rest of it... like I am not sure if they mean the £14.98 PLUS the £130 or what?

I do have a online web design site where I sell my home-made website templates, but I cannot do any web design anymore, until I get a back injection, because I have a degenerated disc and a pinched nerve in my back and ankles, and when I sit down too long it really bothers me. But MAYBE I can be able to manage to sell some templates and get the extra money that I might need for this.

It just irks me be cause I had specifically asked the vet the other day if I would have to pay the additional £30 for another vet visit again if he had the tests done and he said NO.

This is really frustrating and I am worried about Moses.
 
Oh, Claudia... (((Hugs)))

This must be SO frustrating for you...

OK, what comes to mind initally as an interim plan is:

1. Phase out dry food completely and ensure it's replaced with low carb wet food.
2. Get comfortable with hometesting, and especially in a way that you are able to test Moses BG on your own (because there won't always be someone around to help when you need to test). As I said in a previous message, if you become comfortable with hometesting then your vet may let Moses stay at home while the initial 'curve' is done (A 'curve' is a series of tests done throughout the day to see how the insulin is working in the cat).

Did you try to test using Moses ear? Just wondering if you tried that and it was a 'no go'.
 
Elizabeth,

that sounds like a good plan to me!

No I have only tried the one test so far with his feet.

I know he hates even having his ears touched and with the ear polyps problem I am not sure if I could even do that or not, since on the website I saw about it you are supposed to use something to "heat up" the inside of his ear.

So I figured I'd try the feet first. I was afraid I might hurt him with the ear because it says the purpose of heating up the inside of the ear is to get the blood flowing. I know I will end up trying that though, eventually. I wish that I had something to strap Moses down with LOL!

Although actually he wasnt as bad as I thought he would be. I just told him "Don't look", and held him snuggly on my lap and he was really good about it, surprisingly. Then I expected him to go run under the kitchen table afterwards but he instead went to lay down right on the floor where the kitchen and hallway join. I think he was just getting over it, but then later he DID go hide under the kitchen table.

I guess maybe the Vet is wanting to see me first since I was so definite before on the phone about wanting to just "let Moses go" and not do anything about it. But that was before I met all of you and realized this is something that is actually possible for me to accomplish. So maybe after I talk to him on the 29th, I can convince him that I really mean it, that I want to go through with this.
 
Hi, Elizabeth..

I still have your cats phone number on my mobile (your husband answered, if you remember, but his no. would have been confused with our family members)
Love to all

Mary
 
Claudia,

Are you still around?

My kitty Milo has just switched over from Caninsulin to PZI, which means I have his Caninsulin kit left over.

Do you want a VetPen & approximately 100 needles?

I also have an almost untouched cartridge of caninsulin in the VetPen. About 80 units, I think. This would be enough to get you & Moses going, depending on what the Vet says.

Let me know if you want it & I will post it off to you. Drop me a line?

Juliet
 
Hi Juliet

Yes Im still around :)

Just waiting until January 29th to see the Vet and get Moses the rest of the tests.

I will send you a PM
 
Claudia,

Moses' present is in the mail. I have sent it First Class recorded delivery so you may get it tomorrow. More likely to be thursday, though, I would think, knowing what the Royal Mail is like.

You have syringes as well as the VetPen & insulin, so you can try different ways of injecting him 'til you're both comfortable. Maybe go through the VetPen manual with your vet when you see them on the 29th?

Good luck!

Juliet

cat_pet_icon
 
Okay thanks so much, Juliet, I really do appreciate your help so much! Ive told Moses about his present, so he will be waiting for it LOL!

Claudia
 
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to update you on how Moses is doing.

Because of my circumstances, I have not been able to get Moses to an appointment with the Vet. My friend who I am staying with, had to get changed from Employment Support Allowance to Job Seekers Allowance, and the payments were delayed for a long time. Tomorrow he should get his first payment from JSA. Then I too will have enough money, with his back payments as well, to be able to make another appointment with the Vet for Mose's tests, finally. All he has had so far was the initial urine test.

If you might remember, back around January 10 or so (cant remember the exaxt date... about a month ago) I gave Moses a blood test and it was 21.9

Well Juliet sent me a private email and told me I should test Moses again, and guess what? I did that a few minutes ago and now he tested at 12.2

WOW! I can hardly believe this, and only with a change of diet from the dry food to the wet food!

Anyway now I am thinking that perhaps it was a GOOD thing it took so long for me to be able to get Moses to the Vet because now his readings will be more fitting, for his change of diet. And we will be able to start out at 12.2 or thereabouts instead of way up at 21.9

I dont know much about this but is this really good?

I am hoping maybe they will just get Moses on insulin for a little while, enough to sort of kick start his body into producing insulin again? They he will hopefully go into remission?

Or is this what usually happens? Do all cats so dramatically reduce the numbers just from eating the wet food and the change of diet?

What I have been doing is leaving out the bowl of dry food at all times, but I give him like maybe two or three pouches of the Whiskas wet food, plus about 2 cans of the Gourmet Gold, and about half a can or a whole can of the Liquivite, to make sure he has enough liquids, because I am always afraid he might get dehydrated.

Probably day after tomorrow I will make an appointment to do Mose's tests.

Claudia
 
Yes many cats drop dramatically when switched from dry to wet, in fact if you would elimate the dry altogether he may drop even further and perhaps even become diet controlled. Some cats even one or two pieces of dry food will spike their gluclose.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Yes many cats drop dramatically when switched from dry to wet, in fact if you would elimate the dry altogether he may drop even further and perhaps even become diet controlled. Some cats even one or two pieces of dry food will spike their gluclose.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Click to expand...


Okay thats it for me then, absolutely no more dry food for Moses!

I cannot understand though, what is it about the dry food that makes their diabetes worse?

Does it have sugar in it? or is it that its so over-processed and takes the nutrients out? or what?
 
Almost all dry foods contain some form of starch that raises BGs if you look at the label probably on of the first ingredients is either corn or wheat. Cats are obligated carnivorse, the only grain their bodies are meant to eat should have been processed by a mouse or a bird first...lol.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Hi Claudia,

Dry food is typically very high in carbohydrates and cats simply can't process them. Cats are obligate carnivores and need meat. It is also thought that cat's bodies don't actually recognise carbs as food, and so even when they've eaten enough calories they keep on eating because it is the meat content in their diet that tells them when they've eaten enough. I think that is why dry food predisposes cats to obesity. Dry food also causes problems simply because it is, well, 'dry'! Cats have evolved to get most of their water from their food (which in the wild would be small prey animals) and they generally have a low thirst drive. Cats on dry diets could suffer from chronic low level dehydration.

You may want to look at the following link for more info.
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

You're seeing some great results there from reducing the dry food in your cat's diet. :smile:
 
Thanks so much for that information. WOW it is still so much of a surprise to me! I chucked my kitty's dry food in the garbage can for good, a few minutes ago!
 
Nice one, Claudia!

This is really good news! dancing_cat

Yep, kitties should be on the Atkins diet (or the Catkins diet!). As few carbs as possible, and high protein.

Give him a few days to get used to not eating any dry food at all, and test him again to see if his blood glucose drops any further?

Yay!

Juliet
 
Dr Schrodinger said:
Nice one, Claudia!

This is really good news! dancing_cat

Yep, kitties should be on the Atkins diet (or the Catkins diet!). As few carbs as possible, and high protein.

Give him a few days to get used to not eating any dry food at all, and test him again to see if his blood glucose drops any further?

Yay!

Juliet
Click to expand...

Juliet,

dont you mean the CATkins Diet? :)
 
okay I will test him in a few days with NO dry food whatsoever?

How do you know if and when he is in remission?

More than likely, will he probably just have to have insulin for awhile at least? and then hopefully get off of it, by the looks of things?
 
EMERGENCY QUESTION NOW


wow! I was reading on that link the following:

Many cats that are in a diabetic state no longer need any insulin when they are finally fed an appropriate low-carbohydrate diet.

Others will always need some insulin but the amount necessary to maintain proper blood glucose levels is nearly always significantly reduced once the patient is on a low carbohydrate diet.

Please re-read the previous two paragraphs carefully.

If you change your diabetic cat's diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage. He may also immediately go into 'remission' and not need any insulin at all.

If this warning is ignored, you may very well end up with a cat in a hypoglycemic crisis (dangerously low blood sugar) which can result in death, or brain damage.

If you take only one point away from this page, it needs to be the understanding that if you stop pouring carbs into your cat by switching to a low-carb canned food diet (or even a dry food diet with lower carbs than you have been feeding), you MUST be aware of the probable immediate and significant impact on your cat's insulin needs.

If I could shout this from the rooftops, I would.

On a weekly basis, I hear of reports of cats that ended up near-death - or actually did die - from insulin overdoses because lay caregivers and veterinarians did not understand this basic concept.

---------------------

So my question is this...

since Moses has had his levels drop so dramatically, should I perhaps WAIT a while before even taking him to the Vet again?

Because he didnt even seem to think it even would matter if I changed his diet, when I asked him... he said it wont matter!

So should I just keep testing him with absolutely NO dry food for awhile and see if he drops down on his own to normal levels and perhaps I wont even NEED to take him to the vet again at all?

I dont want the Vet giving him an overdose of insulin.

and how exactly do I test him the right way? I mean is it like for 1 day? or more? and every 2 hours or what? I mean to be able to know if he really doesnt even need insulin, once I get him completely off the dry stuff for a week or so, I mean?
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
EMERGENCY QUESTION NOW
So my question is this...

since Moses has had his levels drop so dramatically, should I perhaps WAIT a while before even taking him to the Vet again?
Click to expand...

Yes. Wait until he has 'settled in' to having NO DRY FOOD whatsoever. A few days to a week, maybe?

ClaudiaThompson said:
EMERGENCY QUESTION NOW


So should I just keep testing him with absolutely NO dry food for awhile and see if he drops down on his own to normal levels and perhaps I wont even NEED to take him to the vet again at all?

I dont want the Vet giving him an overdose of insulin.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It may be that Moses doesn't need insulin at all, but we don't know this yet.

ClaudiaThompson said:
and how exactly do I test him the right way? I mean is it like for 1 day? or more? and every 2 hours or what? I mean to be able to know if he really doesnt even need insulin, once I get him completely off the dry stuff for a week or so, I mean?
Click to expand...

Test him first thing in the morning before he has any food. That way you can see what his baseline blood glucose is like.

One of the more experienced board members might be able to give you an idea of what numbers indicate remission...

J
 
okay so first thing in the morning before he has any food. Is it important that I should give him his food at the same times each day?

I had just been giving him food any time he wanted it. Plus always leaving out the dry food, but he didnt seem to even touch that any more.

Many times, he seems to have gotten the habit of, when I get up about 3:00 in the morning, he will stand down at the bottom of the stairs and meow at me, so that I will give him some food.

So is it ok to give him food like that but just make sure to test him in the morning when I get up, before feeding him? I mean like when I actually get up at 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning.
 
Test him when you first get up before he has eaten, then test him again about an hour after eating and then again about 3 hrs after he has eaten...that will give you his baseline, how much the food brings him up and then if he drops on his own again how much his own pancreas is taking over and producing his own insulin again.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
okay, I will wait for about a week, when he has been completely off dry food. And then I will do this baseline testing thing and come back here and tell you what the results were.

Yikes! My friend here told me a bit ago today that I was wrong, he is getting his first JSA payment tonight and so tomorrow I probably would have gone ahead and made a new Vet appointment if it were not for Juliet sending me a PM and suggesting I test Moses again today. Then I come to find out that you can overdose your cat on insulin and even cause their death.

wow! I am really happy she emailed me.

But anyway I will be back in about a week.

It is funny, I have Moses lying on his back aagainst me with his head on my lap and my friend does the test on his foot pad. And I tell Moses to "look away, dont look" and he turns his head the other way. He is surprisingly good about it!

just one last question and I am done. If I DO manage to brush Moses' teeth, since I might not even be taking him to the vet and I might end up having to brush his teeth... this tooth paste is the enzymatic kind where it says you do not have to rinse. Is THAT harmful for a diabetic cat if he swallows it?
 
I just looked it up online on one of these ask your vet question things and this is what they said,

Hey, Doc. I took my cat Potter to the vet and the told me he was diabetic. I now have him on a very low carb wet food diet. Since he has stopped eating dry food his teeth don't have anything abrasive enough to keep them free of plaque. I noticed that his breath has down hill too. So, I bought C.E.T enzymatic toothpaste for cats . I have been using it a few times a week for the last month but I noticed that one of the active ingredients is glucose oxidase. Wouldn't that be bad for a diabetic cat


Thank you for your question, I'm Dr. Dan and I'll try to help you.

It is true that through the name "glucose oxidase" it does contain glucose. How ever all food that is eaten will be broken down into glucose by the body for use in the cells so this is just starting out in it's pure form. If your cat ate the entire tube of the tooth paste then yes it could significantly affect his blood sugar. However, the minimal amount in an individual tooth brushing episode will have no effect at all in Potter's over all blood glucose. If you want to be on the safe side brush his teeth right after he eats and near the time he receives his insulin (assuming he is on insulin). This will cause any of the glucose in the paste to be dealt with appropriately by his body. That is being overly cautious in my opinion as I've never seen a diabetic cat have any significant blood sugar control issues from tooth paste. I'm glad you are taking this very seriously however! Keep up the good work.

Dr. Dan
 
Oh I cant believe it, I am so discouraged. Tonight my cat sudden was walking and his back legs were giving out on him, it appeared to me. So I took him to the vet just before they closed. It was a different vet there.

He said it might be ketones or whatever you call it. And he wants me to bring in a urine sample tomorrow. He acted like they really dont want to do anything for Moses except put him to sleep. He told me it is going to be £300 pounds. I told him the other vet told me £130. But then he said well that was to just do the additional tests and if nothing was found to be wrong with him. Then he started in on saying they couldnt even guarantee they could cure Moses. Then they charged me £50 for the visit. So there went much of the $130 that I had saved back for the tests.

He also told me using human tests strips are a bad idea because they dont give accurate readings.

Moses seems so thirsty. I dont think I am going to be able to continue with this all wet food thing. Or I am at least going to have to get rid of the Whiskas. It just seems to make him more and more constipated.

I was all happy, thinking that he was doing well. He said I need to become prepared for when I need to think about putting Moses to sleep. Tomorrow I am going to have to do a urine sample and turn it in. He is checking for the ketone things. When I took him in there the vet put him on the floor and he started walking pretty normally.
 
(((Claudia))),

OK... Take a couple of really deep breaths, and try to remain calm...

Does your diabetic friend have 'Ketostix' or 'Ketodiastix'? These are little test strips that are used to dip into the urine to test for ketones. (Ketodiastix also test for glucose in the urine). If your friend doesn't have them then they can be bought from a pharmacy fairly cheaply. If you can get these then you can test Moses pee yourself first off to see if ketones are likely to be the problem. Does Moses use a litter tray? You need to dip the strip into fresh pee before it disappears. Some folks put a bit of cling film in the tray to try to catch the urine: Some use fine gravel so the urine doesn't get absorbed: And some catch it with a long handled spoon! Anything higher than a 'trace' reading is a reason to go to the vet ASAP.

Claudia, I'm going out now, but will be back in a couple of hours and will talk about your other points then. Only quickly pausing to say: Human glucose meters have been used by people on this forum for donkey's years, and they work just fine. And have you tried adding a little liquid paraffin to Moses' food to help with the constipation? It is bought from pharmacies and is cheap.

Back soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top