What food?

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Thank you BJM. Visited Rocky at the hospital tonight. They are still trying to find the best insulin dose for him. The vet gave me a sheet of over the counter diets suitable for diabetic cats. The % carbs were measured in Dry Matter basis.

The Friskies special diet you suggested was listed. It was information from 2005 though... The 2005 version says 4.67% carbs. Dr. Pierson's 2012 version says 6% carbs.

Wellness is also listed as having 6% carb, so I'm going to try to drop it to something like 3% carbs.

Rocky is also passing a lot of bad gas on the Wellness Grain Free Turkey. (But he's also on 3 antibiotics) I experienced his gas while I was there. I still suspect he also has pancreatitis as I had a cat with that before.. I'm not sure, but it could be the sweet potatoes and carrots in the Wellness that is giving him a bad time.

Dr. Lisa Pierson's food list for 2012 says Classic Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets has 3% carbs measured in dry matter. I'll bring that one to the vet and see how he does on that flavor.

Rocky might even have a poultry allergy as he is losing lots of fur around his face and two front arms.

Thanks again for your help!
 
It'll be tough with a food allergy.

With food allergy, you can try 2 months of a novel protein source, then gradually try feeding small amounts of suspect products to see what triggers symptoms.

Or, you can try rotating through different protein groups on a daily basis, to see if that reduces symptoms - chicken, venison, turkey, fish, duck, beef, lamb, repeat.

Some folks group all poultry together; this rotation alternates them with another source.
 
Hi Tina Marie 8,

I hope Rocky gets better soon. I'm new on this site and really appreciated the great help I got from everyone. Good luck with the rescue as well. Gurmit
 
Hey everyone, today was the fourteenth day of testing and Boongie's sugar levels are down. The readings today were low as well 41-65). So I guess I should be very happy. I am very thankful actuallyl. I will be testing him daily for a couple more weeks and then go weekly. One thing I am worried about though is the fact that he got more and more constipated after I switched him to the wellness food. With that Hill's high fibre stuff he was having daily bowel movements. Now he is at the third day. He had issues with constipation with the urinary food too and I used to give him laxatone once in a while at the suggestion of my vet and sometimes fed him water with a syringe for his natural tendancies were not to drink much. However, even during the worst times he might have missed a day and that was it. I gave him some pumpkin once not too long before he got diabetes. I don't want to give him stuff with sugar in it now of course. Any suggestions what I can do? I had just thought a sudden switch in food and to something with less fibre was the culprit.Now I am starting to be a little scared for it has gotten worse instead of better. Basically I do add water to his food and he gets the pure bites . Thanks, Gurmit
 
It's fine to a bit of pure pumpkin (no sugar or spices) or squash to his diet. Some people buy baby food squash as that comes in small jars. Just make sure there's no onions or garlic mixed into the ingredients. And make sure you are adding lots of water to his food. That'll help the constipation if he's not drinking much on his own.
 
Check out Feline Constipation. More than you ever wanted to know about it and how it may be treated, plus great info on the feline digestive tract and how it works.

You'll want to bookmark this as a reference for your rescue.
 
Gurmit - so how long has it been now without insulin? No numbers over 130 right?

Tina - you might want to start your own thread for Rocky. but anyway - are you planning to home test? Given he is DKA prone I would strongly recommend both blood and urine testing. Have they said what kind of insulin are they using?



Wendy
 
BJM, I will check it out again. I actually stumbled on this before seeing your message and was a bit overwhelmed by all the info, but I will look at it. Gurmit
 
Wendy and Neko,

Thanks for the info. Do you think frozen pumpkin will work? My mom made Boongie a puree from a pumpkin I bought home and then froze a bag. I have some squash baby food too and will check the ingredients.I was thinking of powdered psyllium after doing a search on this site and seeing some people give that to their cats (my parents take it like crazy. I think people of their age from India are seeing it as a panacea for various ills). Thanks again, Gurmit
 
The frozen pumpkin should work just fine. As long as there are no spices added to the pumpkin, you'll be fine to feed that. Not many people take the time these days, to cut up a pumpkin and freeze it, so that is why we suggest canned pumpkin. Frozen will work too, just defrost it first of course. ;-)
 
Thanks Deb, I started adding the baby food today for the only ingredients were squash and water. It is good to know the frozen pumpkin is ok too. Thanks, Gurmit
 
TinaMarie8 said:
....According to Dr. Lisa Pierson's cat food chart, the Friskies Turkey and Giblets has 14% carbs.. so that is out of the question for Rocky right now. I need to get his carbs down to under 10%, the lower, the better....
Click to expand...

You read the wrong Turkey and Giblets; try printing out the chart.
The Turkey and Giblets Dinner, under classic pate, is protein 41%, fat 51%,and carbohydrate 8%.
 
Gurmit - time to change your screen name from "Really worried" to "really happy and lucky" because Boongie is officially OTJ!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Tips to stay OTJ

We say a cat is in remission if the cat can maintain BG levels for 14 days between 40-120 with most of that spent under 100. However, please keep in mind that once a diabetic always a diabetic.

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

If he does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.


Wendy
 
Wendy and Tiggy,

Not time to change my screen name yet. I had a high reading yesterday, 8.2. or 147. MInd you it was when he really didn't want his ear poked (he was 94, just 22 minutes earlier which was his highest so far and I got worred and started another test. He was struggling and didn't want it being done). However, 4 hours later (I decided not to mess with him for a bit) he was 56. I had given him squash too for a couple of days. I stopped it. Today the readings were between 56-67. Also his ears aren't fully healed. I stopped using the drops for I don't want him on drops for life. I am going to the vet tomorrow for a blood test and will be talking to him about the ears too. I actually started using colloidal silver a couple of days ago and it seems to be helping or at least managing them as much as the drops were.I I'm worried about his teeth, especially now that he eats so many times a day. I haven't taken him for a cleaning for his reaction to anaesthetic was so bad during a surgery. I used to give him what was called dental treats and stuff and have tried brushing his teeth (which he hates), but will try more persistently now. This lady at Tisols told me last year not to take him for a cleaning for her friend's cat never woke up from a dental cleaning and not care if they say there is a difference between being sedation and anaesthesia. I was scared it would be the end of him if I took him and still think it could be. The constipation is still there. It is always one thing or another and I am starting to have headaches and at times just want to start crying and God gets some really sincere praying from me these days, 'Please, please help Boongie." The good things are that for the last couple of days he has been very active, jumps around a lot, plays, etc. He was lying there with his canines showing smiling and stretched out wanting to be petted by my mom when she came to see him and you could just tell he was really happy. He is getting a little fussy with his food. Jumped onto the kitchen fan and tried opening the cupboard above it to get the pure bites instead of taking the regular food. Anyway, what is your take on the one high reading in 18 days? Had he not gone right down to the 50s and been in the 50s and 60s, I would be making plans to go get the insulin from Walmart rather than using the unopened caninsulin still sitting in my fridge. So anyway, the name is still good until everything is sorted out and I continue having low readings. Thanks for listening to the rant. Gurmit
 
Feeding lightly cooked chicken gizzards is supposed to help clean the teeth, due to the fibrous nature of the gizzard. (per Cat Info.

There are many types of anesthesia - local/regional nerve blocks reduce the use of systemic sedation/anesthesia, both gas anesthesia and sedation may be used. There are reversal agents for some of the sedatives. If you go to a tertiary level (very specialty oriented) veterinary service or a dental specialist, they may be able to come up with an anesthesia protocol that will be safer for your cat. One example of a service like that is MedVet in Columbus, Ohio. Some may be available at Veterinary Colleges ... just do it before the new students come in July.
 
If you get a high reading like that try and take another one immediately. Could be just a bad reading - maybe sugar on your hands or something- I wouldn't worry unless its consistently high. And apply a thin smear of neosporin ointment on the ear after to help heal it.

Its just plain squash right? Check the label to make sure there is nothing else in it that could spike the sugar - I would also be careful of those dental treats in case they have sugars etc in them.
 
Gurmit, I just had Neko in for a dental at the West Coast Dental Services last week. They are the dental specialists in the Vancouver area. They are really good, but being specialists a bit more expensive. Your vet should be able to get you a referral to them if you want to do that. First ask your own vet if they do dental X-rays. If not, then you don't want them doing the dental.
 
BJM, I don't give the dental treats, stopped since the diagnosis. The baby food squash didn't have sugar in it at all, just two ingredients were listed. Sometimes one never knows because I didn't get a reading like that since either. Gurmit
 
Hi,

Thanks Wendy for suggesting I start a topic for Rocky. I think I really need to do so. Rocky survived the DKA but I may not survive the vet bill..

I wanted to see if I could kick-start Rocky's pancreas to work again so I want to feed him the lowest carb food possible. I am now feeding him the very expensive canned Instinct Venison. According to Dr. Pierson's food chart this one has ZERO carbs.

I have been giving Rocky very little Lantus insulin since he has been home. It's like 1 and 1/2 dose, I think, 2x a day. I was checking him for three days every three hours when he first came home and he was within a normal range, even dipped to 50 one night. The BG reading scared me but he was acting normal. I decided to feed him 1/2 a can of the Instinct and then I called the vet afterwards. They told me to give him the corn syrup but I told them that I had already fed him. In 3 hours his BG was back up to over 100.

So, tonight I'm doing the BG 12 hour curve and I'm very bummed out. It's a little after 1AM here and I'll be taking his BG every 2 hrs. His BG was at 364 at 8PM, already high, before he ate dinner. I gave him the insulin after he ate and then retested again at 10PM. It went down to 325. I tested again at 12AM and it was at 409. I called the vet because it was so high but they told me not to worry about it and to keep testing. Rocky was even being playful at this high level.

One thing I noticed with Rocky is that the third eye comes up a little when his BG is high. And, he starts scratching a lot and his fur comes out in patches. It started doing this again a few days ago. At first I thought this was from a food allergy but I do not think so now. I think it is from having a consistently high BG.

I would consider Rocky a "new" diabetes patient. I don't think he developed it until around November 2012. He was a tame cat who was eating mice out in a field, and eating some dry food that feral feeders were giving to him. He then went through the T-N-R program and ended up at my friend's house. My friend fed him nothing but Venti sized Starbuck's cups of dry MeoW Mix for a few months.

I give Rocky (1) Zobaline 2x a day. It's Vitamin B12. It won't hurt him and it makes him hungry enough to eat the deer meat. (Venison Instinct) I don't think it would have an impact on the BG, do you?

Really disappointed that I'm feeding him a a strictly ZERO carb canned food and his BG is still so high. I'm not so worried anymore about feeding him chicken or turkey as I think the fur coming out is related to the high BG and not a food allergy.

I'll look around here, but where should I post Rocky's case? I would like more help, especially in how to talk to vet's about how I want to handle Rocky's diabetes.

Thanks, Tina
 
When you say 1 and 1/2 dose, do you mean 1.5 units? Or 1 unit am and 0.5 units pm?

Lantus works best given at the same dose, every 12 hours. You have to hold the same dose a minimum of 5 days for the first dose amount and a minimum of 3 full days for any later amounts.

It is possible that the amount is too high and what you are seeing as high levels are a result of going too low or dropping too fast. Either of these can trigger compensatory hormones which release stored sugar (glycogen) and bring up the glucose level.

Can we get you to record your numbers on a spreadsheet that can be seen by those with the link? The instructions are here.
AMPS = morning pre-shot
PMPS = evening pre-shot
Units =units of insulin given
+1 = any tests done 1 hour after the shot
+# = any tests done # hours after the shot
 
Thanks BJ,

Yes, I can start recording it on a spread sheet. I need to create the spread sheet. I do not want to muddy this topic of 'What Food' so I'll move that information over to the Lantus group. (Will you come there please?) Rocky was getting 1.5 units with the 3/10 monoject syringe. It's a very tiny amount. The vet just had me increase it this morning after the 12 hr BG Curve last night showed continued readings in the 400s and his BG was still at 409mg before feeding at 8AM.
 
TinaMarie8 said:
Thanks BJ,

Yes, I can start recording it on a spread sheet. I need to create the spread sheet. I do not want to muddy this topic of 'What Food' so I'll move that information over to the Lantus group. (Will you come there please?) Rocky was getting 1.5 units with the 3/10 monoject syringe. It's a very tiny amount. The vet just had me increase it this morning after the 12 hr BG Curve last night showed continued readings in the 400s and his BG was still at 409mg before feeding at 8AM.
Click to expand...

I do come over to Lantus occasionally, though I would not consider myself an expert on it. There are a number of folks there who are significantly more knowledgeable than I.

If you follow the link I gave you to the spreadsheet instructions, it should take you step by step through the process. If you can't quite get it, report numbers as AMPS, or PMPS, and any mid-cycle tests as +# - test result. That'll help us help you.
 
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