What dose of insulin to give?

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

horselo285

Member
Hey everyone,

I recently took on the care of my brothers diabetic cat (my brother could no longer care for him and my dad took on his care nearly 2 yrs ago. Since then he has been given insulin twice daily w/ no testing at all. He has lost a ton of weight and had issues with peeing everywhere. I took over to try and help him.)

Today was my first day testing his blood sugar. He dropped down to 38 about 7 hours after his 10:30 am dose. I did get his levels up and he was at 166 about 1 1/2 hours ago. I checked him about 15 mins ago and he was up to 258! It is now time for his night time dose but I don't know what to give. Any help would be appreciated!

He is on Humulin N and has been getting 4 Units am and pm.

Thanks,

Laura
 
The problem is since you're just now testing, there's no knowing what.dose he really needs. 4u is obviously too much, but with.the weight loss I'd worry about ketones so you.also don't want too little. I'd back off to no.more than.2 u. I'd say 1 but you.haven't managed a ketone test yet. Hopefully someone else will.respond soon-I'm new at this.
 
Hey! Thanks for the reply! Yea....I still havent been able to get him to pee in front of me. :-/ I guess i'll wait a couple of mins and see if anyone else answers and then ill give him 2. I need to go to bed eventually as I need to get up at around 6:15 2morrow am. (ugh! Im not a morning person) How long after giving him the insulin is a good time to test him again?
 
Nadir (low point) is usually 4-6 hours after the shot. You'll need to experiment to find out when he usually nadirs. At minimum, you need preshot.numbers and at least.one mid-cycle number per day.
 
Please stay with us for a min. as you will see more on here that is more experienced w/ your insulin! Hang in there. I know all about early hours and trying to do the right thing w/ our sugar babies as I was up way into the am hour and had to get up for new job at 5:30! eeeks..... He will thank you later, I promise!
goood going with the higher carb foods on hand and testing (even when he dont want you to). :RAHCAT
 
Thanks! I will wait a bit longer to see if anyone else answers...but I am already 30 mins passed his normal insulin time. Isn't it bad to get too far off schedule? Its also, of course, bad to give the wrong dose so I feel like im in a catch 22. :-(
 
When you get a chance, check out the humalin primer in the support group. It can give you more specifics on your insulin (which I'm not all that familliar with). It does get easier to manage, by the way.
 
Humulin N - I think 4u is also too high. There's no reason I can see so far. I'd go with 2 units and test at +1. It will take a little time for it to start working.

I'll post again with more info......
 
Carl suggwsted 1 or 1.5 in the other thread.

Yes, you want to stay as close to schedule as possible but you've got some leeway with the insulin you're using. Keep in mind you can't take.back the insulin once it's in the cat.
 
Dang, there's two threads going. I recommended 1, or at most 1.5 especially if you cant stay up to test
Carl
 
Humulin N is a short acting insulin. One injection affects one 'cycle' (varies by length) and that's it, it's gone. There's nothing else to work until you give another injection. Because of this, a 12/12 schedule isn't really necessary - it VERY rarely lasts that long. When his BG goes up, the Humulin has done it's work, and more must be given to work on the next 'cycle'. The longest that most people seem to get Humulin N to work is 7-8 hours. It is also unpredictable - the lowest BG may be at +4 one day and +6 the next.

We started on Humulin N but have changed to Lantus. In your case, let's see what we can do for now with the Humulin N.

You're doing great!
 
Squeaky and KT said:
Humulin N - I think 4u is also too high. There's no reason I can see so far. I'd go with 2 units and test at +1. It will take a little time for it to start working.

I'll post again with more info......
Click to expand...

GO WITH CARL'S SUGGESTION - didn't realize there were 2 threads. I'll bow out....
 
Lyresa
Thank you so much for being here! You have experience with H, while I don't. I just know 4u is too much, and unless kitty can be observed when dose amount is in question, I usually recommend a minimal dose (better than skipping). Also without a history to look back on, no idea what 2, (or even 1) will do to his BG.

Thanks again. You rock!

Carl
 
Thank you to both of you as well as everyone else for their help! I just gave him 1 and will attempt to check his levels in a while. I can't wait too long though as I need to get some sleep. I don't want to drive in the am (especially will my 11 month old son in the car) while too tired. I'll try and check him around 12...that way im in bed around 12:30 and can hopefully get about 5 hours of sleep. I will hop back on here and post his levels.

If I didn't have to drive in the am with the baby, I would stay up later and keep a closer eye on his levels...but I dont want to take a chance. :-/

Is there any sort of rule for the amount of insulin to give? Like, if I test his bg 30 mins (or so) before his shot and its between 200-300 give 1? Less then 200, give none? Or 1/2? I'd just like to have an idea so I dont need to be constantly relying on you guys.

Thanks!!!

-Laura
 
Laura,
I don't want to nag.... I know people have suggested that you start a spreadsheet to keep all the numbers. I'm a fine one to talk since I never had one. I just kept it all in a notebook.
Having a record online helps everyone who is trying to advise because we can then see his entire history. But even if you only have a notebook like I did, over time it will be a great aid in determining doses for you. You'll be able to see what a specific dose has done in the past, and have an idea what it would do today.

The thing that makes your situation extra tricky is the Humulin, because like Lyresa said, it acts quick, it doesn't usually last long, and not too many people have experience with it. Many people start off using it, but soon switch to a long lasting insulin like Lantus or Levimir which are more "predictable". PZI/Prozinc is also a good choice, it is more gentle than Humulin, and lasts longer, but doesn't work the same way as the "L" insulins exactly.

In your case, you pretty much have to draw a line in the sand that says "below this number, I don't shoot." For new members, the universal advice seems to be 200. As you gather data and experience, you may find that 200 can be lowered to 150 and you can be confident that it won't push the BG down to dangerously low levels. In general, you would prefer to give at least a tiny dose rather than skip a shot, because when you are shooting every 12 hours, if you skip a shot, then he goes 24 hours with just the one shot, and his numbers will climb as a result. So yes, you need to find a "low" number that you are confident in, and above that level, shoot a small dose like a half unit. You just have to gather data sufficient to determine where the "no-shoot" number is.

I feel that you could shoot a token dose of a .5 if he is around 200, but I don't know what the absolute low number should be, whether it is 175 or 150 or where ever.
Assuming everything is okay over night, then you will know that 1 unit on a test number of 250 is okay. If that is true, then .5 on a 200 should also be okay.
I would not shoot under 175 however. Not until you can determine that it should be safe to do so. Especially at night when you have to get some sleep.
It's much easier to monitor and keep testing when these low numbers happen at the morning pre-shots. But these things always seeem to happen late a night! I think it's kitty conspiracy!

Carl
 
i'm glad to see you went with 1 :-) especially given that you need to get some sleep. life has to be factored into some of our decisions too
 
Hey guys,

I just checked his levels. He was 169. I am going to go to bed and I will check his levels when I get home tomorrow am...which will probably be around 8:30/9 am. Then I will check again before his shot. I am really trying to figure all this out...but as a result, I have slacked massively on my school work the last 2 days. Hopefully he will have an issue free day tomorrow so I can get things done. I have an essay due Monday, math HW due tuesday and a history project due Thursday. Plus my 11 month old son (my 3 year old is on vaca with grandma until tuesday), 2 dogs and an apt to deal with. lol I feel like Louie is already doing better, though...which is rewarding. And also rewarding, I was on the phone with my brother and he thanked me for taking care of Louie. He nearly made me cry....

Carl-

How do I start a spreadsheet. If someone else said to, I think I must have missed it. There has been so much info to take in and today was my first time testing, so im just trying to keep up with everything. I don't have his levels written down, but it is saved in my meter (plus I wrote it on here) so I should be able to write it all down and keep track. I will do that until I figure out the spreadsheet thing....Im relly just trying to figure out how to balance all my time. :-/

Thanks for all your help,

Laura
 
Laura,
lol, you are asking the wrong person for SS how-to advice, but I have no doubt someone will post soon to help you out. I know the instructions are found in the tech support forum, and there are lots of questions posted there specific to spreadsheets.

It's sounds like your life is very "full" right now, and all I can promise is that the "feline diabetes" part of it will get easier with time. Once you get into the testing/treating routine, it won't take up a big part of your day. At times you will feel overwhelmed by it, but that passes. We all do what we can do, and that is all you can do as well. Some people test 10 times a day. Others test twice a day. It can't take over your life, but it can be part of your life. Lots of people are doing a whole lot of juggling just like you are, and I am sure that they can share how they manage with you. Just post a new message once in a while, here or in the community forum that asks "Hey, how do you all deal with "fill in the blanks"???? and people will be happy to tell you and help you.

And the part about your brother almost making you cry? Trust me, you'll cry at some point. We all have and continue to. Even me! Most of them will be joyful tears though. But any time you need to vent or need someone to boost you up, just post here and it'll happen.

The 169 is a good number. He'll be fine tonight. Let us know how things are in the AM!
Carl
 
Hi,

Ok, so I am worried that the meter I was using is inaccurate. Long story short, the strips that came with the meter in the newbie kit was missing the number to insert into the meter. I was using my dads meter yesterday (he is diabetic...ironic huh with the lack of care for Louie.) But he does not want me to continue using it, so I decided to go out a buy a walgreens Trueresult meter as it was on sale and I found the test strips cheap on amazon. That is what I used last night for his tests.

Well, this am I went to check him. I got a prick on his ear, which bled enough that I decided to test w/ my dads meter as well. The trueresult was at 169 (or something along those lines) my dads meter was at 330!!! I tested the Trueresult again (still the same prick on the ear...its was still bleeding as I had put no pressure. I actually got this done within a VERY quick period of time.) at it said 153. I did a control on both meters and both claimed to be accurate. My dads meter is a Bayer Contour. I am assuming that the bayer is more accurate?

My dad has agreed to try to share his strips with me (if he has enough) and in that case, I will return the Trueresult (and complain about it) and buy an extra bayer, so I dont need to keep using his (hopefully I can find it for a good price.) that is, assuming that you guys agree that is the correct decision?

In the meantime, I have no idea what to give him for insulin at 10:30. I can try to get another test before then, but I am also trying to feed my 11 month old son, which makes it a bit complicated. Louie is pretty sick of being pricked...but is still coxable as long as chicken is involved.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!

-Laura
 
I use two different meters with my two diabetics....Musette's is the Bayer Contour, and yes it is a great meter, so I would trust the results off the Bayer. Don't know anything about the Trueresults but I remember someone else saying if it has True in the name it isn't ...lol. However, Walmart does have an awesome meter for $9 called the Relion Micro, that is what I use for Maxwell...strips are dirt cheap as well $20 for 50. I have compared both the Contour and the Relion side by side and they are always within just a few points of each other. So if you can see if Walmart will let you exchange the Trueresults for their Relion Micro.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Hurray for Laura and Louie!!

What a great mommy bean to stay up and get that last test and the number was not so bad at all! good goin Louie boy! I can say as well that this situation -fd- will become a part of your scheduled day and will not be such an overwhelming thing! The sugar dance you will do will help your boy and who knows? just maybe go into remission.

Have you considered changing insulin? Sugar Bean was on PZI and it worked great for her.

You deserve biggg hugs and special thanks from your brother, and btw....let those tears - happy - frustration - whatever, flow.... they will make you feel better... and just take a look at your new buddy, he WILL show you how much better he will become and that is really all us mommy/daddy beans need to know for all the time and effort we have put into making them better. It took Bean about 4 wks to start looking better and about 1 wk to act better. I remember the first time she played with one of her toys....I sit and watched and cried happy tears for her! She weighted almost 12 lb. before dx and at the time of dx, she was barely 8~ eeeks. Now we are finally to 9.6 (mommy bought a baby scale). THEY WILL GET BETTER!

The pix of Louie you posted, he looks alot like my Bean. what a cutie
Watching this thread closely and wishing you happy furry thoughts today!
:RAHCAT :dizcat :RAHCAT :dizcat :RAHCAT :dizcat :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
I now use the relion from w.mart as well, from the advice here and many who use it... very cheap.... I would retest w/ dad for now
 
Thanks guys!!!! My dad does not use all his strips so im thinking getting another bayer might be the best idea. I did not realize it isnt coded (he thought it was) which means I can just use his extra strips...no issues! :-) Which is awesome! Even if he cant give me a ton, I won't need to buy as much!! ANd considering the fact I literally have NO money atm (im running up my cc on his stuff so far) that sounds like the best idea. :-)

Any ideas what I should give him for insulin this am? Assuming hes around 330? Hes supposed to get it now but I have no idea what to give.

And yes, I would like to switch his insulin, but I need to get the money together for a vet visit (or get a hold of my moms friend who is a vet). My mom may be willing to help with the money (*Cross fingers) but she is away until Tuesday night....so I cant do anything until then.

Thanks,

Laura
 
I have no experience w/ that insulin and very little w/ PZI as Bean went into remission so quickly - 6 weeks - but just hang a min. and someone will help you. I would do that before I did the 4 units. Did you also post on the humilin board too?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top