Weight loss in regulated cat

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Waheeda said:
If the 400 is closer to 350, then the 308 closer to 250?
I Hv done +3, +6, +9 n pmps wen I first started monitoring. U can see in my SS. But I Hv increased the dosage for d evening shot 4 days ago so I guess the curve wld b different now. Do I test after morning shot or evening cos both dosages r different.
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Waheeda said:
Thks so much! Ok I'll ask my vet where to get the ketone strips.
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ALWAYS get a preshot test. You have to know what you're starting with to know what to shoot. I see you wrote 2.4 units for some shots. Does that mean you are using u100 syringes and a conversion chart? I recommend you increase the dose a bit when the numbers are over 300. And even a little when under. Let's try.

200-250 shoot 2.4u
250-300 2.6
300-350 3

Get as many mid cycle numbers when you can, and get a curve in when you can.


We wanna start seeing more blues.

The more tests you can get, the better. Vetsulin tends to peak 4-6 hours after preshot.
 
Yes we only have u100 syringes here.
My vet is so worried when I wanted to increase to 2.4 units. But I'm getting better readings with it compared to 2. She said d cat's system needs time to adjust to new dose so can only chge after a week. And she said 2.4 units is already considered high. But u are even suggesting going to 3. But then ur cat is in remission so u definitely are doing it right.
I'm just worried if I increase too much he'll go into hypo state n no one is at home.
JanetNJ said:
ALWAYS get a preshot test. You have to know what you're starting with to know what to shoot. I see you wrote 2.4 units for some shots. Does that mean you are using u100 syringes and a conversion chart? I recommend you increase the dose a bit when the numbers are over 300. And even a little when under. Let's try.

200-250 shoot 2.4u
250-300 2.6
300-350 3

Get as many mid cycle numbers when you can, and get a curve in when you can.


We wanna start seeing more blues.

The more tests you can get, the better. Vetsulin tends to peak 4-6 hours after preshot.
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s
 
Waheeda said:
Yes we only have u100 syringes here.
My vet is so worried when I wanted to increase to 2.4 units. But I'm getting better readings with it compared to 2. She said d cat's system needs time to adjust to new dose so can only chge after a week. And she said 2.4 units is already considered high. But u are even suggesting going to 3. But then ur cat is in remission so u definitely are doing it right.
I'm just worried if I increase too much he'll go into hypo state n no one is at home.

s
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Until you have more data I understand being cautious. Times when you are home and can test I do recommend you dose a little higher on those higher starting numbers.

We wanna get him out of those pinks mid cycle. We saw one high blue but you didn't test before shooting so we don't know where he started from that day.
 
Keep in mind on human meter "Normal" is 50-120. We wanna start aiming to get the nadir (lowest point) at around 100-120. It may take a little time to get there.

Dosage needs change over time.
 
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JanetNJ said:
Keep in mind on human meter "Normal" is 50-120. We wanna start aiming to get the nadir (lowest point) at around 100-120. It may take a little time to get there.

Dosage needs change over time.
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Yes I understand. I'm going for 2.4 for both day n nite jabs. N will take readings b4 shots for both. N some mid cycle if he's not too grouchy. I will try to increase on weekends when I can monitor him.
Thanks for ur advice.
So glad to meet everyone here as we "struggle" to help our babies.
 
2.4U isn't a really high dose, especially compared to some of the high dose kitty's here ;). Janet has helped many of our Vetsulin user's (and others of course) here, Waheeda :). Jebat might benefit from the sliding scale dose that Janet has left you with above. Keep getting those AMPS and PMPS tests at minimum and grab extra tests when you can, including before you go to bed tests. You should still make a note for yourself about that 114 reading, so you can remind yourself to retest if that variance happens again :cat:
 
Yong said:
2.4U isn't a really high dose, especially compared to some of the high dose kitty's here ;). Janet has helped many of our Vetsulin user's (and others of course) here, Waheeda :). Jebat might benefit from the sliding scale dose that Janet has left you with above. Keep getting those AMPS and PMPS tests at minimum and grab extra tests when you can, including before you go to bed tests. You should still make a note for yourself about that 114 reading, so you can remind yourself to retest if that variance happens again :cat:
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Hi Yong,
Ya I'm grateful for Janet's help. I'm also frustrated that the current dosage does not seem to work. I will definitely try her scale next weekend as I'm not working for 3 days.
What are the chances that the cat's pancreas start to produce insulin again and we end up with too much insulin?
 
Hi Waheeda, I was always told when kitty's BG is under 250, their pancreas is getting some healing time. There isn't a real statistic to answer the question any better. This is what extra tests can help us identify, when the pancreas is helping :).
 
Yong said:
Hi Waheeda, I was always told when kitty's BG is under 250, their pancreas is getting some healing time. There isn't a real statistic to answer the question any better. This is what extra tests can help us identify, when the pancreas is helping :).
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It's actually under 150 pet meter the pancreas heals. I think 250 was in your head because that's around where the glucose spills into the urine.
 
Yong said:
It is possible and maybe it was 200 for human meter? I have not had any :coffee: ;)
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Nope, defnitely lower than that. 68-150. that's when the pancreas can rest. 200 is still hyperglycemic. that's why we always aim for around 85-100 nadir.


and I'm ready for cup #2! lolol
 
JanetNJ said:
Nope, defnitely lower than that. 68-150. that's when the pancreas can rest. 200 is still hyperglycemic. that's why we always aim for around 85-100 nadir.


and I'm ready for cup #2! lolol
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Wow dats very low. Why are the vets always scaring me that increasing the insulin too fast will make my cat hypoglycaemic cos d pancreas will produce insulin too. My cat BG is hovering at 300+ which is so far from 100. I should ask them to learn from you.
 
Yong said:
Hi Waheeda, I was always told when kitty's BG is under 250, their pancreas is getting some healing time. There isn't a real statistic to answer the question any better. This is what extra tests can help us identify, when the pancreas is helping :).
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I don't know how much extra tests I can do. He's growling at me. He only lets my sis poke him. And his legs are getting weaker. We Hv put him on vit b12 since yesterday.
 
He'll get used to the tests. Just make sure he gets a treat, or some extra love and attention, or whatever motivates him, every time you poke him. It helps to give a positive association. The tests are too important to skip them. Getting his BG into healthier ranges will help with the weakening of his legs. Hypoglycemia is a very real concern though, particularly on an insulin like Vetsulin, so you need the tests in order to be able to safely raise the dose to get him to those healthier numbers.
 
Waheeda said:
Wow dats very low. Why are the vets always scaring me that increasing the insulin too fast will make my cat hypoglycaemic cos d pancreas will produce insulin too. My cat BG is hovering at 300+ which is so far from 100. I should ask them to learn from you.
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A cat is considered regulated when a typical cycle preshot is 300 and under and nadir is about 100.
 
Waheeda said:
I don't know how much extra tests I can do. He's growling at me. He only lets my sis poke him. And his legs are getting weaker. We Hv put him on vit b12 since yesterday.
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As the numbers start coming down and the b12 is given it will reverse. There's another reason for trying to get your numbers down... To help with the neuropathy.
 
Djamila said:
He'll get used to the tests. Just make sure he gets a treat, or some extra love and attention, or whatever motivates him, every time you poke him. It helps to give a positive association. The tests are too important to skip them. Getting his BG into healthier ranges will help with the weakening of his legs. Hypoglycemia is a very real concern though, particularly on an insulin like Vetsulin, so you need the tests in order to be able to safely raise the dose to get him to those healthier numbers.
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Thanks Djamila. He will get extra rubs after the tests.
 
Hi hi, check with everyone here. I'm using freestyle freedom lite meter meant for human. Does it matter? The sales person told me many ppl bought this for their pets.
 
Waheeda said:
Hi hi, check with everyone here. I'm using freestyle freedom lite meter meant for human. Does it matter? The sales person told me many ppl bought this for their pets.
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That will be fine. Most people on here use a human meter. They read lower than pet meters but as long as you know what too high, OK and too low is you'll be fine.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
That will be fine. Most people on here use a human meter. They read lower than pet meters but as long as you know what too high, OK and too low is you'll be fine.
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Ok thank you. Would u know why the AMPS n PMPS readings can be so different when the cat is eating the same food at the same interval ? The AMPS was yellow and gave me so much hope only to see a fuchsia for PMPs and not much drop +5 later.
 
Waheeda said:
Ok thank you. Would u know why the AMPS n PMPS readings can be so different when the cat is eating the same food at the same interval ? The AMPS was yellow and gave me so much hope only to see a fuchsia for PMPs and not much drop +5 later.
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The only way to know is to test to see what's going on in between. On your next day off you should plan on doing a full curve - test BG every 2 hours between AM and PM shots.
 
Another question. Do we need to test against any control solution? Cos d set doesn't come with any so I assumed everythg has been preset properly.
It's so strange that now at 2.4 units d readings is still so high. Last wk, it was high at 2u but much better in 2.4u but I don't see improvements wen I chge to 2.4u. I know I Hv to do d curve but I can only do that on sat n these 2 days readings r so depressing.
 
Waheeda said:
Another question. Do we need to test against any control solution? Cos d set doesn't come with any so I assumed everythg has been preset properly.
It's so strange that now at 2.4 units d readings is still so high. Last wk, it was high at 2u but much better in 2.4u but I don't see improvements wen I chge to 2.4u. I know I Hv to do d curve but I can only do that on sat n these 2 days readings r so depressing.
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Without mid cycle numbers you really can't tell how effective this new dose is. You have to see how low it's going. The preshot numbers aren't going to come down much until the mid cycle numbers come down into the healing range (under 120).
 
Waheeda said:
Another question. Do we need to test against any control solution? Cos d set doesn't come with any so I assumed everythg has been preset properly.
It's so strange that now at 2.4 units d readings is still so high. Last wk, it was high at 2u but much better in 2.4u but I don't see improvements wen I chge to 2.4u. I know I Hv to do d curve but I can only do that on sat n these 2 days readings r so depressing.
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I only used a control solution a grand total of two times. Once the first time I used the meter, and one other time that I got an unusual reading.
 
JanetNJ said:
I only used a control solution a grand total of two times. Once the first time I used the meter, and one other time that I got an unusual reading.
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I Hv never used it cos it din come in d box n d sales person didnt mention about it. Is my reading still accurate? Do I need to buy d control solution ?
 
JanetNJ said:
Without mid cycle numbers you really can't tell how effective this new dose is. You have to see how low it's going. The preshot numbers aren't going to come down much until the mid cycle numbers come down into the healing range (under 120).
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I did +5 last nite n it was 362! I was expecting a lower number. Will do +4 later.
 
Waheeda said:
I did +5 last nite n it was 362! I was expecting a lower number. Will do +4 later.
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I offered you a sliding scale recommendation a few days ago. You should try it.

200-250 2.4
250-300 2.6
300-350 3
350-400 3.2
400+ 3.4

You wanna get those mid day numbers down to around 80-110.
 
JanetNJ said:
I offered you a sliding scale recommendation a few days ago. You should try it.
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Janet I am thinking that a sliding scale may not be the best approach yet until she is able to get more mid cycle tests. Without knowing just how low a dose is taking Jebat it is hard to say whether a dose needs to be increased or decreased. Just my thoughts.
 
JanetNJ said:
I offered you a sliding scale recommendation a few days ago. You should try it.

200-250 2.4
250-300 2.6
300-350 3
350-400 3.2
400+ 3.4

You wanna get those mid day numbers down to around 80-110.
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Yes will definitely do this weekend.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Janet I am thinking that a sliding scale may not be the best approach yet until she is able to get more mid cycle tests. Without knowing just how low a dose is taking Jebat it is hard to say whether a dose needs to be increased or decreased. Just my thoughts.
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So far I don't even see any low number! I did +5 yesterday n it was high. I'm sure +4 tonite will b high too. Mayb this vetsulin works at +2-+3?
 
Doing a curve will be useful, as long as Jebat is not bouncing. Some kitties can drop a lot in the first 2-3 hours with Vetsulin. others don't drop until 4 or 5 hours after, so it would be good to get a better idea how Jebat is reacting to the insulin. If Jebat does drop a lot in the early hours then it is possible that he could bounce up into higher numbers later in the cycle. Or is may be that he needs a higher dose. A curve will give better information on what is happening,
 
JanetNJ said:
Ok more conservative approach...


225-275 2.4
275-350 2.6
350-425 2.8
425+ 3
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Oh 2.6 a bit tough to get accurately cos it's between 2 lines. I Hv to estimate. Ya I'm a bit nervous to go too aggressively. At the same time, I'm also getting impatient.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Doing a curve will be useful, as long as Jebat is not bouncing. Some kitties can drop a lot in the first 2-3 hours with Vetsulin. others don't drop until 4 or 5 hours after, so it would be good to get a better idea how Jebat is reacting to the insulin. If Jebat does drop a lot in the early hours then it is possible that he could bounce up into higher numbers later in the cycle. Or is may be that he needs a higher dose. A curve will give better information on what is happening,
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I Hv a feeling he drops a lot in d first few hours. Cos last sun he dropped abt 100 points in first hour. D tests I've done at +4, +5 or +6 r always high. If it drops only in first few hours then it means he's beyond d gd range most of the times.
 
Waheeda said:
I Hv a feeling he drops a lot in d first few hours. Cos last sun he dropped abt 100 points in first hour. D tests I've done at +4, +5 or +6 r always high. If it drops only in first few hours then it means he's beyond d gd range most of the times.
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Doing a curve will help to show if this is what is happening. If he drops too low then you may need to lower the dose, but that will need to be seen. Since each kitty reacts differently to insulin getting to know how YOUR kitty is responding is a good step to figuring out a good dose.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Doing a curve will help to show if this is what is happening. If he drops too low then you may need to lower the dose, but that will need to be seen. Since each kitty reacts differently to insulin getting to know how YOUR kitty is responding is a good step to figuring out a good dose.
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That wld b the somogyi effect rite?
 
Waheeda said:
That wld b the somogyi effect rite?
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Some people and vets call it the somogyi effect. Usually on this forum it is referred to as "bouncing". When a kitty drops too fast or too low the body releases stored glucose which causes the numbers to "bounce" up higher. If a dose takes a kitty down too low, then reducing the dose would be needed. But the more data you gather, the easier it will be able to see what is happening.
 
Definitely try to get a curve done on your next day off, Waheeda :). Great job steadily getting the AMPS and PMPS :D.
Enjoy your evening!
 
Hi all, can u combine the readings of a few days for d curve? Shld b ok rite as long d pmps is about d same? I did +1, +2 today n already Hv +4 n +5. So if tmr I do +3 n +6 I wld Hv at least touched the lowest point?
My readings for +1 n +2 r still high so I don't thk there's any somogyi effect.
 
Waheeda said:
Hi all, can u combine the readings of a few days for d curve? Shld b ok rite as long d pmps is about d same? I did +1, +2 today n already Hv +4 n +5. So if tmr I do +3 n +6 I wld Hv at least touched the lowest point?
My readings for +1 n +2 r still high so I don't thk there's any somogyi effect.
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Unfortunately, I do not think so because the dose on another day / another cycle could do something different. You want to do a test ever 2 hours after his shot, until PMPS. Readings at +1 and +2 may still be food influenced, which is why we say no food 2 hours prior to pre-test time :)

During the curve you will maintain feeding schedule.
 
Yong said:
Unfortunately, I do not think so because the dose on another day / another cycle could do something different. You want to do a test ever 2 hours after his shot, until PMPS. Readings at +1 and +2 may still be food influenced, which is why we say no food 2 hours prior to pre-test time :)

During the curve you will maintain feeding schedule.
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So only the pre-shot will not be food influenced. Other than that it's ok ? Cos I feed him every 2 hrs so when I'm doing the curve every point will be food-influenced. Or I Hv to only feed him after taking the tests? Plse bear with my tons of questions ya. Cos I read from a website that said u can combine results over a few days to get the curve so as not to stress the cat. I didn't manage to get the pmps today cos he was growling and hissing. Bad mood today.
 
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