way to do blood test

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sun

Member Since 2010
hi,

firstly, thx for your help.

i have a question on the order of things to do, in the morning, should i do the BS test first, then feed the cat, then do the shot?
and this order is the same for also pm shot?

my vet said i should feed her first. then after 1 hr before, do the BS test then the shot, or else, it doesn't reflect the actual no.

i am confused.

thx
anson
 
here's the order and why.

First food. I think your vet wants your kitty to have food inside for the insulin. That's good but you don't want to get a false number when you test.
So no matter what time you are testing, do not give any foods for 2 hours prior to the insulin shot. That way all food is out of the system and won't give you a false number. When you feed, the food will cause a spike up in the BG number so when you test, after kitty ate an hour ago, you will get a higher number than needed to know for shot time.

To use 6am/6pm as your shot times:

1. no foods between 4 and 6.
2. you can test no more than 15min before your insulin shot, so do the BG test between 5:45 and 6:00.
3. as soon as you have that BG test, you can give foods. You can now prepare the insulin shot for kitty and shoot while kitty is eating.
 
thx, a lot. i have been doing it wrong.

so if it is a 8am/pm shot times, and every 4 hr bs curve

no food from 6-8am, test at 7:45am, feed her, and do the shot at 8am.
no food from 10am to 12pm, test at 11:45pm, then food
no food from 2-4pm, test at 345pm, then food
no food from 6-8pm, test at 745pm, feed her, and do the shot at 8pm.

am i right?

thxsssssssss

Gayle and Shadoe said:
here's the order and why.

First food. I think your vet wants your kitty to have food inside for the insulin. That's good but you don't want to get a false number when you test.
So no matter what time you are testing, do not give any foods for 2 hours prior to the insulin shot. That way all food is out of the system and won't give you a false number. When you feed, the food will cause a spike up in the BG number so when you test, after kitty ate an hour ago, you will get a higher number than needed to know for shot time.

To use 6am/6pm as your shot times:

1. no foods between 4 and 6.
2. you can test no more than 15min before your insulin shot, so do the BG test between 5:45 and 6:00.
3. as soon as you have that BG test, you can give foods. You can now prepare the insulin shot for kitty and shoot while kitty is eating.
Click to expand...
 
you are pretty close ... the only thing is that you don't have to hold back the foods during the shots.
After you give the 8am shot, you can feed whenever you want between 8am-6pm and 8pm-6am, and many people have a variety of feeding schedules plus many others just free feed.
I put food in an auto feeder for one of my cats, and the other diabetic just free feeds. I put his bowl down in the morn then go to work for the day.

The important time is that 2 hour window just before your shot. You want to empty the tank and then get a pure, true BG number. If you were to test your kitty a few times close to their shot time, you may be surprised how quickly it may see like they just run outta gas and the number rises quickly. So that 15min before shot is a good amount to give you some time to prepare the shot and put the foods in a dish.
 
thxxxx so much.

:-)
anson
Gayle and Shadoe said:
you are pretty close ... the only thing is that you don't have to hold back the foods during the shots.
After you give the 8am shot, you can feed whenever you want between 8am-6pm and 8pm-6am, and many people have a variety of feeding schedules plus many others just free feed.
I put food in an auto feeder for one of my cats, and the other diabetic just free feeds. I put his bowl down in the morn then go to work for the day.

The important time is that 2 hour window just before your shot. You want to empty the tank and then get a pure, true BG number. If you were to test your kitty a few times close to their shot time, you may be surprised how quickly it may see like they just run outta gas and the number rises quickly. So that 15min before shot is a good amount to give you some time to prepare the shot and put the foods in a dish.
Click to expand...
 
Test Feed Shoot!--That's the only way to get a true reading w/o food in the cat which raises BG in the am & Pm..
Then you can post in your subject Heading--6/10 Sun Amps 163 (for example)--Then add +3~151, and so on during the day..
This way we can see his progress all day & his numbers-OK?
You are doing great--Bg testing & shooting are the hardest to master, so you are doing just fine :mrgreen:
 
thx so much.

i have been doing the BG, but i feed before it...
mmm...
i wil correct my way.

i have written another mail to the lantus support group on siujim's problem -- pancreatitis

wish some caregivers can share their experience and i can learn more.

thxxxx again.
anson

Ella & Stu said:
Hi Sun, You've got good advice here. Nothing to add except welcome to the group.

Ella & Stu
Click to expand...
 
I've always tested bg and shot while my cat ate. It worked for us.

You always want to get a bg test before giving insulin. A small amount of food just before testing won't affect bgs.
 
thx all of you for the info.
:-)

may i ask is there any posts here about blood sample taking technique?
usually after 5-6 days of blood taking, there are many wounds in the veins on the ears and it is hard to get the blood. and i will rest her ears for sometimes...

and she really hates to take the blood test. any tips?

thx again!!!!
anson

squeem3 said:
I've always tested bg and shot while my cat ate. It worked for us.

You always want to get a bg test before giving insulin. A small amount of food just before testing won't affect bgs.
Click to expand...
 
Hi again Anson, It helps to warm the ear first to get the blood flowing. Most of us fill a small sock with about 1/2 cup of raw rice and stick it in the microwave for 20-25 seconds. (I use a clean sock about once a week, transferring the rice from the old sock to the clean one.) Then hold the sock to her ear for a minute or so. Then, to get the blood drop to bead up, it helps to put a little vaseline or Neosporin ointment on the ear before sticking the ear with the lancet. Put a gauze pad on the other side of the ear when you poke, and hold onto the ear so she doesn't flick the blood drop. Then gently touch the test strip (which you have already put into the meter) to the blood drop and let the meter do its work (as soon as it beeps you know you have enough blood for the test and you can put the meter down). Fold the gauze pad over the ear and apply gentle pressure before you let her jump down. This staunches the blood flow. At bedtime, after the last test of the evening, I usually put a little Neosporin creme with pain-killer on the ear, to help it heal. The whole technique gets much easier as the weeks go by. I used to alternate ears, but I found that one bleeds better than the other, so now I just use that one. After the test, be sure to give your kitty a treat. They don't mind the tests so much if they know a treat will follow.
Here's a video on UTube that shows the technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Good luck!

Ella & Stu
 
HI Anson,

Just wanted to say I am glad you found your way over here. I knew you were confused and this is the place to be enlightened. ;-) Glad to see you got the answers you needed. Great bunch of people here for sure! :smile:
 
thx for the info.

i also use similar technique but i realize after too many pins, it's hard to get the blood...
perhaps i should put some cream on as you mentioned.

also, may i ask, what kind of treat will u give?
as diabetic cats shouldn't take any treat i thought...

dried chicken/salmon ok?
i was told not to give her any dry food...

thx.
anson

Ella & Stu said:
Hi again Anson, It helps to warm the ear first to get the blood flowing. Most of us fill a small sock with about 1/2 cup of raw rice and stick it in the microwave for 20-25 seconds. (I use a clean sock about once a week, transferring the rice from the old sock to the clean one.) Then hold the sock to her ear for a minute or so. Then, to get the blood drop to bead up, it helps to put a little vaseline or Neosporin ointment on the ear before sticking the ear with the lancet. Put a gauze pad on the other side of the ear when you poke, and hold onto the ear so she doesn't flick the blood drop. Then gently touch the test strip (which you have already put into the meter) to the blood drop and let the meter do its work (as soon as it beeps you know you have enough blood for the test and you can put the meter down). Fold the gauze pad over the ear and apply gentle pressure before you let her jump down. This staunches the blood flow. At bedtime, after the last test of the evening, I usually put a little Neosporin creme with pain-killer on the ear, to help it heal. The whole technique gets much easier as the weeks go by. I used to alternate ears, but I found that one bleeds better than the other, so now I just use that one. After the test, be sure to give your kitty a treat. They don't mind the tests so much if they know a treat will follow.
Here's a video on UTube that shows the technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Good luck!

Ella & Stu
Click to expand...
 
watched the video.
people at the vet clinic just told me to pin on the vein...
it is not on the sweet spots...

so it is better to pin at the tiny space between the vein and the edge of the ear? not on the vein?

thx.
anson

sun said:
thx for the info.

i also use similar technique but i realize after too many pins, it's hard to get the blood...
perhaps i should put some cream on as you mentioned.

also, may i ask, what kind of treat will u give?
as diabetic cats shouldn't take any treat i thought...

dried chicken/salmon ok?
i was told not to give her any dry food...

thx.
anson

Ella & Stu said:
Hi again Anson, It helps to warm the ear first to get the blood flowing. Most of us fill a small sock with about 1/2 cup of raw rice and stick it in the microwave for 20-25 seconds. (I use a clean sock about once a week, transferring the rice from the old sock to the clean one.) Then hold the sock to her ear for a minute or so. Then, to get the blood drop to bead up, it helps to put a little vaseline or Neosporin ointment on the ear before sticking the ear with the lancet. Put a gauze pad on the other side of the ear when you poke, and hold onto the ear so she doesn't flick the blood drop. Then gently touch the test strip (which you have already put into the meter) to the blood drop and let the meter do its work (as soon as it beeps you know you have enough blood for the test and you can put the meter down). Fold the gauze pad over the ear and apply gentle pressure before you let her jump down. This staunches the blood flow. At bedtime, after the last test of the evening, I usually put a little Neosporin creme with pain-killer on the ear, to help it heal. The whole technique gets much easier as the weeks go by. I used to alternate ears, but I found that one bleeds better than the other, so now I just use that one. After the test, be sure to give your kitty a treat. They don't mind the tests so much if they know a treat will follow.
Here's a video on UTube that shows the technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Good luck!

Ella & Stu
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The difference between dried salmon or chicken and dry food is substantial. In dried salmon, chicken, cod, fish flakes etc, the only ingredient in the product should be meat or fish. A dry food treat will have lots of other things like plant products, grains, flours, starches.. those things are all bad. Can you get dried fish flakes (I believe it is a soup base) where you live? Many kitties love them and they make a fine treat. Here in Asian markets, we can buy them in a large bag, so I expect if you could find that it will make a very inexpensive and much loved treat.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Can you get dried fish flakes (I believe it is a soup base) where you live? Many kitties love them and they make a fine treat. Here in Asian markets, we can buy them in a large bag, so I expect if you could find that it will make a very inexpensive and much loved treat.
Click to expand...

bonito flakes :) the bag that i have is labeled katsuobushi. at the asian store i get them from, the proprietor calls it "chai (3rd tone, if you know hanyu pinyin) yu (fish)" in cantonese. Looks like this pic.
 
dear WCF,

from the info, your cats also have pancreatitis?

would u pls share your experienced?
what are the supplements you are using, and any tips?

thxxx.
anson
WCF and Meowzi said:
Carolyn and Spot said:
Can you get dried fish flakes (I believe it is a soup base) where you live? Many kitties love them and they make a fine treat. Here in Asian markets, we can buy them in a large bag, so I expect if you could find that it will make a very inexpensive and much loved treat.
Click to expand...

bonito flakes :) the bag that i have is labeled katsuobushi. at the asian store i get them from, the proprietor calls it "chai (3rd tone, if you know hanyu pinyin) yu (fish)" in cantonese. Looks like this pic.
Click to expand...
 
thx for your of your help.
since yesterday, i started to do the right thing.

no food 2-3 hrs before the shot, do the BG test, then food then the shot.
and i now can do the BG quite easily :-)
thxxx again.

one thing though.

i realize the +4 and +6 is higher than the am/pmps.
looking backhistory, they were lower because i did it wrongly. i feed them 1-2 hr before the blood test.

what does it mean if +4 and +6, i feed her 60-90mins before the test. is that ok?
as some folks said during mid day tests, it doesn't matter whether they are on a empty stomach.

thx.
anson

Carolyn and Spot said:
The difference between dried salmon or chicken and dry food is substantial. In dried salmon, chicken, cod, fish flakes etc, the only ingredient in the product should be meat or fish. A dry food treat will have lots of other things like plant products, grains, flours, starches.. those things are all bad. Can you get dried fish flakes (I believe it is a soup base) where you live? Many kitties love them and they make a fine treat. Here in Asian markets, we can buy them in a large bag, so I expect if you could find that it will make a very inexpensive and much loved treat.
Click to expand...
 
sun said:
so we are not pinning at the vein (this is what vet told me here) but the sweet spots that is in between the vein and the edge of the ear?
Click to expand...

Anson,

Yep thats right. It's between the vein and the outer edge. Sometime I hit the vien by mistake, but thats ok. Use a piece of folded tissue for support on the opposite of the ear when you do the prick. First off I think its easier to prick the ear with something held behind it, and than after you have gotten the blood you wrap the tissue over to the other side and apply a little pressure for about 10secs or so. That helps with the bruising a lot.


Than it would'nt hurt to put a little antibiotic lotion on the spot. You can use the one with the pain releif in it also.

Hope this helps. I can hardly tell on my cats ears anymore.

Good luck. :smile:

jan and sara
 
sun said:
dear WCF,

from the info, your cats also have pancreatitis?

would u pls share your experienced?
what are the supplements you are using, and any tips?

thxxx.
anson
Click to expand...
yes, meowzi has chronic pancreatitis (cp). the two known cp flares that she has had that were confirmed with bloodwork were in 9/2008 and 9/2009. the 2008 flare started around Sept 21, '08. we could not get pain meds for her till Oct. 3, and you can see the effect of no pain meds for that duration on her BGs in our spreadsheet.

in the 2009 flare, which started on the evening of Sept. 20, '09, i recognized it right away and started her on pain meds the very same night. She's already on fluids for her kidney disease, but we raised the amount of her fluids for the duration of that flare. she also had a concurrent UTI (confirmed by urine culture) so it was a horribly miserable time for her. yet you can see from our spreadsheet that her BGs stayed mostly below 200, even dropping below 100, this entire time, even though this flare was much worse than the one she had in 2008 in terms of clinical presentation. i firmly believe that pain meds and fluids made the difference in keeping her comfortable, and it shows in her numbers.

i'm emphasizing pain meds here because of your thread in the whole cat health group, where the use of pain meds for pancreatitis seems to be questioned. pain control is very necessary. if you are not comfortable with conventional pain meds, please, talk to your vet about acupuncture or other treatments they may offer that can effectively alleviate pain from pancreatitis.

as for supplements, i use most of the ones suggested in jojo's thread. the WCH group has offered some good suggestions on how you can source them in HK.

cornad's thread, which he'd linked for you on 6/11, has some pretty extensive thoughts on cp treatments. i posted links to a couple of papers in that thread; incidentally, i think both of those papers (i know the idexx one does) cover supplements too. there is also a yahoo feline pancreatitis support group that may be able to offer additional help and suggestions.
 
thx a lot.
siujim's BG is getting lower after taking sam-e, vit e, coq10.

also, i talked to the vet and she said it is better only feed two meals per day.
or else, it is hard to tell teh mid day reading.

but siujim is use to have 4 meals per day, because she is old and her teeth is not good. so she usually eats less and more meals.

now i do the BG, then feed, then do the shot at 7am/pm to 720am/pm
also feed at 1pm and 11pm.
or else, she will cry for food. and i don't want her to feel unhappy and walking around the place crying...

what do you folks think?

thx
anson



WCF and Meowzi said:
sun said:
dear WCF,

from the info, your cats also have pancreatitis?

would u pls share your experienced?
what are the supplements you are using, and any tips?

thxxx.
anson
Click to expand...
yes, meowzi has chronic pancreatitis (cp). the two known cp flares that she has had that were confirmed with bloodwork were in 9/2008 and 9/2009. the 2008 flare started around Sept 21, '08. we could not get pain meds for her till Oct. 3, and you can see the effect of no pain meds for that duration on her BGs in our spreadsheet.

in the 2009 flare, which started on the evening of Sept. 20, '09, i recognized it right away and started her on pain meds the very same night. She's already on fluids for her kidney disease, but we raised the amount of her fluids for the duration of that flare. she also had a concurrent UTI (confirmed by urine culture) so it was a horribly miserable time for her. yet you can see from our spreadsheet that her BGs stayed mostly below 200, even dropping below 100, this entire time, even though this flare was much worse than the one she had in 2008 in terms of clinical presentation. i firmly believe that pain meds and fluids made the difference in keeping her comfortable, and it shows in her numbers.

i'm emphasizing pain meds here because of your thread in the whole cat health group, where the use of pain meds for pancreatitis seems to be questioned. pain control is very necessary. if you are not comfortable with conventional pain meds, please, talk to your vet about acupuncture or other treatments they may offer that can effectively alleviate pain from pancreatitis.

as for supplements, i use most of the ones suggested in jojo's thread. the WCH group has offered some good suggestions on how you can source them in HK.

cornad's thread, which he'd linked for you on 6/11, has some pretty extensive thoughts on cp treatments. i posted links to a couple of papers in that thread; incidentally, i think both of those papers (i know the idexx one does) cover supplements too. there is also a yahoo feline pancreatitis support group that may be able to offer additional help and suggestions.
Click to expand...
 
feeding twice a day is not recommended. What we like to suggest is several small snacks thru the day/evening.

In your area, take a look around for a automatic timed feeder - not sure if the PetSafe 5 meal feeder may be available where you are, but check it out - it's handy to have while you're at work or sleeping.

I feed my kitties breakfast/dinner and at least 3 small snacks in between, for both day time and evening.
the only time you dont want to feed while using lantus or else it will affect the preshot test is the 3 hours before insulin shot.

I would stick to what you were doing, small frequent meals.
Some kitties BG can spike if they dont have access to snacks for a while, mine is like that.

no whiny kitties allowed :lol:
 
Hi Anson!

I also have a kitty who seems to do much better with multiple feedings throughout the day. I make sure to wait two to three hours after any feeding before testing.

Basil is now off insulin thanks to the help of the wonderful people here, but when he was on it, we tested, then fed, prepared the shot and have it to him while he was eating.

As for the testing, at first, we were AWFUL at it, but the calmer and more soothing we became, the easier it got. And one you find that sweet spot, that should be the end of lots of bruises.

Good luck!
 
i also think so.
i realize this vet is not so experienced in dealing with diabetes...

and especially when it is something an old cat has been doing for many years, it is NOT good to change her practices, or else will stress her out. and push her BG.

thxxx for your advise.

i feel so much better when knowing people doing the same and are safe...

sometimes, vet really scares us...



Ronnie & Luna said:
feeding twice a day is not recommended. What we like to suggest is several small snacks thru the day/evening.

In your area, take a look around for a automatic timed feeder - not sure if the PetSafe 5 meal feeder may be available where you are, but check it out - it's handy to have while you're at work or sleeping.

I feed my kitties breakfast/dinner and at least 3 small snacks in between, for both day time and evening.
the only time you dont want to feed while using lantus or else it will affect the preshot test is the 3 hours before insulin shot.

I would stick to what you were doing, small frequent meals.
Some kitties BG can spike if they dont have access to snacks for a while, mine is like that.

no whiny kitties allowed :lol:
Click to expand...
 
In addition to the other tips you got on getting blood, I found that I only liked one type of lancet - the Bayer Microlet. Don't know why but I didn't seem to do very well with the others. Also, if the kitty gets really squirmy, you can sort of scrape the blood off onto the top of your fingernail and test it there.

I remember being frustrated to the point of tears initially when I thought "if I have to poke this poor cat one more time and not get any blood, I'll scream". The two things that helped the most were getting his ear really warm with the rice sock (I used two - one on top and one on the bottom) and then putting vaseline on the area so the blood wouldn't soak into his fur. I used the device to hold the lancet but I always did it freehand. After a while, I could just barely touch his ear with the lancet and get blood every time. I sort of folded his ear back onto my thumbnail for a stable surface to poke onto.

I remember so well how hard it was initially. Good luck - you'll get such great advice here!

Donna
 
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