Warren - 5/29/2000 - 7/1/2016 rest in peace my furry friend

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Rob, you've tried everything anyone has suggested, you cleaned, you've tested, you've tried every food combo out there - you've gone WAY WAY above what most people would do for Warren. I'm SO sorry this is the final outcome, I know your heart is hurting so badly right now. Prayers for you to find peace with it.

Soar high on your new angel wings Warren - you're so very loved.
 
Rob, I'm so, so sorry you've had to make this oh-so-hard decision. You and Warren have fought a long, hard fight, and you have done everything you could for him. He will live on forever in your heart.

Fly free, sweet Warrencat_wings>o
 
2 more hours. He's sitting in my lap as he always does. I keep having second thoughts, I'm a complete invalid right now. I feel like I should have been able to fix this, but I'm getting old myself. Tomorrow is my 48th birthday. My wife suggested holding off until next week but I'd back out. I know first hand there are just some things that come with age that can't be fixed. Doesn't help the way this feels though. I feel like he's the last part of me that's pre-marriage, pre-kids.... and I love him so so much. I have such a headache from crying. Crap.
 
Oh Rob:bighug::bighug::bighug:

So very sorry to hear it has come to this, but nobody could have fought harder for dear Warren than you did. He knows how much you love him and how hard you tried

Fly free sweet Warren and land softly....there will be many at the Bridge to welcome you and keep you company until the one you love most comes to be with you forever cat_wings>o
 
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Rob, I know this decision is killing you, but if you're not ready (and your wife is willing to give you more time without hassling you over it) maybe you can take a few days and even if it doesn't change the outcome, spend that time with Warren....spoil him, do everything you know he loves to do, feed him anything he wants, spend some time outdoors (if he likes that)....just make him "King of the castle"

I'd hate for your birthday to always be connected to "the day Warren left" and you have to be at peace with the decision, one way or another.

If the decision ends up to go ahead and let him go, I encourage you to be with him when it's time. I understand this is a very personal decision for each person and some just can't do it, but I can't imagine (no matter how bad it would hurt me) to not be the last eyes my China was looking into when I sent her on her final journey

Maybe ask your vet to come to your home so Warren doesn't have to go to him

Many hugs from everyone here...You know we care
 
Thanks for that link above. It's so so beautiful and painful to read, but it makes me think even more this isn't fair. He isn't suffering. He seems perfectly health and happy. I feel like he's being sentenced to death because he will not use his litter box. I feel like that's not fair. But it's also not fair to my family to have him using the house as his litterbox. I feel I have tried absolutely everything I possibly can that won't disrupt the life of the people that live here. It was my hope beyond hope that I could get him reliably using the litterbox. I was hoping it was medical and diabetes related, but now I think it's just behavior. And we've gone with cat attract litter, prozac, feliway collars, covering the windows so he couldn't see neighborhood cats through the glass, B-12 shots, probiotics..... Removing all shoes, rubber backed rugs, backpacks from the kitchen. Cleaning the litterbox multiple times a day and adding another litterbox near the kitchen. Multiple UTI tests.

The only time he will use his litterbox 100% is when he's trapped in a bathroom with it. That's no way for him to live, but we (meaning the people that live here) can't live with cleaning up after him and destroying a home that we rent. If I were a single guy, I wouldn't do this. But it's not fair to my family.

Now I'm starting to think maybe I should have another UTI test done. We've done 3 already but it's been several months and I know these diabetic guys can be prone to them. Maybe one last one.
 
Rob, I know you are struggling with your decision. Go with what your heart tells you is right for you and Warren. Please don't make a decision based on what anyone else expects, or thinks you should do. You know Warren better than anybody else in the world, and he trusts you to make the right choice for him. If you think another UTI test should be done, then do it. Squeakey and KT hit the nail on the head - "If you doubt, take the time..."
 
Chris & China said:
Rob, I know this decision is killing you, but if you're not ready (and your wife is willing to give you more time without hassling you over it) maybe you can take a few days and even if it doesn't change the outcome, spend that time with Warren....spoil him, do everything you know he loves to do, feed him anything he wants, spend some time outdoors (if he likes that)....just make him "King of the castle"

I'd hate for your birthday to always be connected to "the day Warren left" and you have to be at peace with the decision, one way or another.

If the decision ends up to go ahead and let him go, I encourage you to be with him when it's time. I understand this is a very personal decision for each person and some just can't do it, but I can't imagine (no matter how bad it would hurt me) to not be the last eyes my China was looking into when I sent her on her final journey

Maybe ask your vet to come to your home so Warren doesn't have to go to him

Many hugs from everyone here...You know we care
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You took the words right out of my mouth...ALL OF THEM!!! I too think it would be best to hold off...but if the decision is still yes...have the Vet come to your home. I had my Woodstock pass away in my arms...looking at me...as HORRIBLE as that was...I too wanted my eyes to be the last he saw.. I'm so sorry this is happening.... :( :( :(
 
Rob, I haven't been here in a while - too many other things going on recently. But @Kate and Kloever very kindly told me about your posts this morning. I have to add to the call to wait if you have ANY doubt at all - this isn't a decision you can take back later, so you have to be 100% certain that it's the only thing left to do. And yes, if you do have to go ahead (hopefully not today) please be with Warren at the end. I know it's heart-breaking, but it's one time when he really needs you to be with him.
 
Could he have sterile cystitis? Have you tried giving him glucosamine/hyaluronic acid (marketed as Cosequin for cats)? That, plus a cat-safe NSAID could be a good last resort.
What kind of litter do you use?
 
Dusty will pee in the tub at least once a week, I don't know why but of all the places he can "inappropriately" pee this place is just fine with me! I also have removed rubber backed rugs because he would pee on those too but now just pees in the tub, he might like the privacy. :cat:
Glad you're giving Warren more time!!
 
I've had less issues with my "problem child" going outside the box since I switched to Okocat reclaimed wood litter. For some reason, all my cats seem to prefer it over other types of liter. Pricey, though.
 
When/if it comes down to euthanasia, you should seriously considering being there with Warren. You are his person. He will be looking for you. Yes, it's horrible, but there is no reason to make it more horrible than it already is. You have provided great care and comfort to him for so long--don't let this last, extremely important moment be the time you aren't there for him.

As others have suggested, you can ask around to see if a vet will come to your home to perform euthanasia if you think that would be less stressful to Warren.

This is terrible. I have been checking on your thread for a long time hoping things would improve. I was so sure it would get better.

Just a shot in the dark, but... how much consideration have you given to confining Warren (and perhaps your other cat, too) to one room permanently? I know you said keeping him in the bathroom with a litter box was the only way he would 100% use the box and you didn't consider that a good life for him, but is there possibly another room well-suited for Warren? The estimates vary, but cats sleep for the majority of the day, so being confined to one room isn't so bad. Have a nice window to look out, a variety of comfortable beds and scratching posts, fantastic water fountains, delicious eats, and daily visits from the family for playing, brushing, and cleaning. It could be a very, very good life.

It's not a terribly unusual concept to limit pets to one or more specific rooms. Give it some serious thought.

Good luck with your decision.
 
I am so glad Warren is still with you. I have been thinking about him all day and have been so sad. I agree with the others that if you do decide, you need to be with him. He trusts you; you are his caretaker and the one that cares for him.

Another consideration that I have not read yet (I don't think) is have you thought of someone else that would take Warren? Just maybe, he may not take those litter box issues with him for some reason. It would take a special person to take on the diabetes but you have done an amazing job controlling the disease. Maybe a trial or something or a short temporary stay just to see. I don't know, am just pulling at straws to help Warren out.
 
Rob - I know everyone is encouraging you to be there if Warren has to go to the Bridge BUT you do what YOU are comfortable with. My husband can't be there either...that's all he remembers if he is. He'd rather remember the happy times.
 
Of course rule out any infection. Smokey did the same thing since he was 1 yr. He is now 17 yrs. But he has been with 4 other family members. I acquired him 1 yr ago. I really observed him. He was wetting, pooping, vomiting all over my parents house. Carpet was absolutely saturated.

So what I witnessed was this. It was behavioral most of the time. Diabetes did play a part but only because of the volume he put out.

The box he had at my parents house was way to small. It had a lid. It looked like it was never washed.

When I cat napped him. I got a very large box. No lid. It's not in a corner. It's washed and new litter scent free every week. Smokey is a large cat. Does not go in box all the way. Some he goes over the side. Puppy pads around the edges take care of the spilling. Once he uses it he won't use it again until it's scooped. He will not wet and poop in same box. So he has 2 of them. One box with just y st a puppy pad in it. He will use that sometimes. If he goes on the floor it's because I didn't scoop or clean box.

For the vomiting, that was mostly diabetes related (gastro praises) not sure of spelling. I changed his food. His dry food was changed to grain-free. The can food was upgraded from the cheap no frills food. He did get medicine for awhile. Feed small amounts every 2 hrs around the clock for 2 weeks. Then slowly increased food and intervals. He has not vomited in 6 months. Or go on the floors purposely for over a year.

Once you get his numbers good. Really observed him. It might just be a matter of changing some things.
 
Thanks everybody so so so much for all your support and ideas, but I think we're beyond any further experimenting at this point. My wife has had it. I could see how frustrated she was yesterday when I chose to cancel his euthanasia and decided to spend another $200 on a UTI test. I have to give Warren the benefit of the doubt, but 4 straight days of pooping in the kitchen and she's going out of her tree because it's been going on for 6 months. While his numbers are much better, his litterbox behavior is probably worse if anything. I don't blame her, I don't hold it against her, I'm not feeling backed into a corner or resentful. I understand where she is coming from and I appreciate that she's given me 6 months to do everything I could, spending a boatload of $$$ to try to fix this. I'm probably over $1500 and we aren't wealthy people by any means. At some point I knew I'd have to be willing to choose family over Warren and we're there. I am praying he has a UTI. But if he doesn't, I've made my decision and as miserable as I'll be, I know that I've done everything I can for him and I'll be able to live with it. However I don't think I can be there for him at the end. There is no way I could watch my baby die in my arms and not have nightmares every night. Just the thought of it now has me in tears again. My mom did that with her cat and she was forever a wreck because of it. Maybe my wife would be willing, I'll cross that bridge when I have to.
 
I'm glad you've found our support helpful.

Even if you find an answer, it may not be one that is curable. My one cat who was peeing everywhere turned out to have a bone cancer. It had invaded the kidneys, causing them to fail, thus the excessive urination. Chemo and leg amputation were done because we thought we found it early. It had already metastasized to the kidneys, though, and renal failure was the ultimate cause of death. You just never know.

.
 
You have my sympathy--litterbox issues can really drive you to the edge.

Before you give up, might I suggest you try baby diapers? It probably sounds crazy, but it has saved my sanity. It's a last resort, but sometimes it "contains" the situation and gives you enough of a breather to think more clearly. I have an incontinent cat and he's been in diapers for around 7 years now. Out of sheer desperation, I also used them for another cat who had behavioral issues until we could work through them.

You will want to be diligent about changing the diaper when soiled and have fragrance-free baby wipes (or a damp washrag) on hand to tidy up the back end (just as you would for a baby). I use Huggies size 2, and snip a hole for the tail. I put them on so the Velcro attaches on top of his back. Many cats don't try to take them off, but you can also secure with a bit of tape if needed. I can give you lots of hints and tricks should you decide to give it a try.

I have to add that the sense of relief was immesurable once I figured this out. And in hindsight, using diapers was quite the non-event--much easier than either of the alternatives (cleaning a soiled house, euthanasia). It was a well-deserved truce after a long-fought battle. I only wish I'd happened upon it sooner.
 
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Cats are very adaptable with diapers. They don't have vanity issues like we do. :) I know this has been a very difficult, painful journey for you. You have done so much and love your cat so dearly. Please get some rest and give this some more thought. Please let us know what the outcome of the tests were. If it's not UTI, perhaps it is something else that can be treated. I had a cat that kept going outside the box and made a mess everywhere for awhile. He had a bladder infection that was easily treated. He went back to using his litter box when the infection was cleared up.
 
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JL and Chip said:
You have my sympathy--litterbox issues can really drive you to the edge.

Before you give up, might I suggest you try baby diapers? It probably sounds crazy, but it has saved my sanity. It's a last resort, but sometimes it "contains" the situation and gives you enough of a breather to think more clearly. I have an incontinent cat and he's been in diapers for around 7 years now. Out of sheer desperation, I also used them for another cat who had behavioral issues until we could work through them.

You will want to be diligent about changing the diaper when soiled and have fragrance-free baby wipes (or a damp washrag) on hand to tidy up the back end (just as you would for a baby). I use Huggies size 2, and snip a hole for the tail. I put them on so the Velcro attaches on top of his back. Many cats don't try to take them off, but you can also secure with a bit of tape if needed. I can give you lots of hints and tricks should you decide to give it a try.

I have to add that the sense of relief was immesurable once I figured this out. And in hindsight, using diapers was quite the non-event--much easier than either of the alternatives (cleaning a soiled house, euthanasia). It was a well-deserved truce after a long-fought battle. I only wish I'd happened upon it sooner.
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Brilliant! This seems like it might be worth trying. I know I would give it a shot!
 
I'm being intentionally silent. Every time I write something positive, I jinx Warren. Current bathroom story is available via the spreadsheet. He did not have a UTI unfortunately. I'll try to get a copy of his lab results tomorrow and share. Vet was concerned about kidneys because the last two tests he has had extremely dilute urine. He still spends a lot of time at his water bowl even when his numbers are good. No glucose in his urine. His numbers have been higher of late. Today I moved him back to 0.6 but I have to be really careful, he hit a 38 not long ago at that dosage. And that was at +12, so for sure the nadir was even lower (usually around +7-9). He also hasn't been looking too well the past week, but the higher numbers could just be taking a toll. He's been hanging out in some strange spots too. I've taken him off prozac. Didn't do anything to improve the situation after a month. Diapers are an absolute no go. My wife would have to be involved in that and she will not do that.
 
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Such hard news, I know. Easier said than done but try to take it one step at a time. Let us know the results as soon as you can. We are here for you.
 
Not knowing is the hardest. Was he tested for thyroid? How much positive interaction does Warren have with you wife? Does she ignore him, scold him when he does go, play with him? He could be looking for her acceptance.

I had this trouble with Smokey. He came from a house he did the same thing. He was in a closed room and he didn't like it, his box was wrong for him and not scooped enough to his liking.

At my house he has a much bigger box, it is not in a corner or have a cover. The litter he was used to was fresh step. Apparently the carbon irritated him. So now we use precious cat litter. It's scooped 5-6 times a day or when ever something is in it. He won't use same box to wet and poop. He now has 3 boxes. He is praised when he uses them. Smokey likes people he does not like being alone which he was for 12 years.

I used Cat Attract additive to get him to use the box. You sprinkle it on the litter. Tidy Cat also puts out a training litter I used. I don't need to anymore but took a some time to retrain him. And is 17 .

There is also a puppy pan that has a low entry side that might work. And the puppy training tray. It's flat and you put a puppy pad in or on it.

Smokey whole life changed when I acquired him right down to his water. I have well water. You can read his story in threads Hello, continuous saga of Smokey and Smokey Saga Chapter 3.

I put a plastic table cloth from dollar store on the floor and then puppy pads on top, then the box. No purposeful wetting outside of box. Occasionally he overshoots the box or will poops outside but it's because I didn't scoop. Puppy pads take care of that.

I hope you can figure out what is causing it. But something is. Smokey did it because his set up wasn't to his liking. It took time of fixing one thing at a time.
 
My wife loves him and he often sits in her lap as well. She is just going into self-preservation mode and distancing herself emotionally.

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Rob, this is a total long shot and you may already have had him tested for this (I don't remember exactly what tests you've already had done) but his USG is pretty low - my Rosa just tested at 1.015 with CKD and I was told that's low for a cat. As he's not concentrating his urine very well, it might be that he can't actually make it to his litter box on time. If you haven't already done so, you might want to consider blood work to check his kidney values just to make sure there isn't something going on there that hasn't already been noticed. Rosa's was only picked up at a check up where the vet was able to feel that one of her kidneys was bigger and lumpier than it should be.
 
To add to the won't hurt, might help list - You tried the prozac to no avail, you tried the litterbox interventions with no improvement, you've addressed UTI issues, and that doesn't seem to be it. Perhaps it's pain? My old lady cat (she's 16) has on and off litterbox issues related to pain issues. She has had flares of joint swellings in her legs since she was 4 or 5 from an accident. She also has arthritis with fused vertebra in her lower back. Her most recent bout of peeing/pooping on rugs was because she was having trouble going down the stairs. Moving the box/retraining was enough this time. Her pain isn't bad now, but vet recommended if box issues happen again, to try to treat for pain, and see if that helps. When cats are uncomfortable they will go wherever is most comfortable for them, often its on those soft carpets.

Buprenorphine is the med most here use, as the anti-inflamatory drugs are hard on cat's kidneys. If it does turn out to be something worse than arthritis, then having the pain meds on hand is a good idea anyway.
 
If it is a litter box issue and possibly a pain thing as mentioned above, maybe a very low litter container. Ok this may be a stupid idea but here it is. My water heater went out about two months ago. I just started shopping for another one this week. You know that pan that goes under the water heater? It is big and low...maybe that would help those cats that have problems getting into the litter box. I also remember reading a great idea of someone taking one of those big tote containers (like Rubbermaid but you can find something cheaper) and cutting a side out so the cat can get in and out easier. Also for those cats that like to stand up and pee, these tote containers have high sides and it keeps everything in the box. Just trying to keep thinking of suggestions...
 
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manxcat419 said:
If you haven't already done so, you might want to consider blood work to check his kidney values just to make sure there isn't something going on there that hasn't already been noticed.
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Hi Robr, I agree with the above... in fact, this is really, really important because if you don't have a urine protein:creatinine ratio or BUN/creatinine numbers from bloodwork, assumptions about kidney issues should not be made. If these values come back normal, it would mean he doesn't have kidney issues, in which case I would immediately put him on desmopressin shots on a trial basis. My cat's urine was almost exactly as dilute as Warren's, and with the desmopressin, he started concentrating it at 1.050 within a week. In a way, desmopressin was an easy fix, and the dx was partial diabetes insipidus, which is very rare in cats, but part of that might be because most vets don't check for it. Within a couple weeks of my cat being diagnosed with it, my vet started checking other cats for it in his practice and found another case. It's worth a shot.
If you already have a UPCR or BUN/creatinine, please post those as well. My cat lived normally for almost 3 yrs after starting the desmopressin...
 
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Speckles, that's pretty interesting. The vet was supposed to give me a copy of his blood work lab results as well but looks like they missed copying that one. I'll try to get back over there Monday and get a copy. They were done back in April I think.

I don't think it's pain, he jumps into and out of my lap, goes up and down stairs no problem. He doesn't seem to have any issue getting in and out of the litter box. It's probably only 4" tall at the entry point.
On the other hand he does seem to be slightly stiff and wobbly sometimes, especially if he's been sitting for a while. Arthritis? If I break out a laser pointer though, he doesn't have much problem chasing the dot around. As I type this he just jumped off my lap down onto the floor without issue and is cleaning himself.

I will look into Buprenorphine anyway.

As always, thanks for all the ideas and support.
 
robr said:
On the other hand he does seem to be slightly stiff and wobbly sometimes, especially if he's been sitting for a while. Arthritis?
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Stiff and unsteady is how jane shows her arthritis. She still runs around and is generally active, but I know it's there. She no longer tries to go upstairs, and hesitates sometimes when trying to jump up on stuff. Still plays, still seems just fine. I know this was an issue with her box problems because it was in the basement. Sometimes during the old injury flares, the first sign would be pooping in a corner, then a day or two later, she'd have a limp.
 
SpecklesandMe said:
Hi Robr, I agree with the above... in fact, this is really, really important because if you don't have a urine protein:creatinine ratio or BUN/creatinine numbers from bloodwork, assumptions about kidney issues should not be made. If these values come back normal, it would mean he doesn't have kidney issues, in which case I would immediately put him on desmopressin shots on a trial basis. My cat's urine was almost exactly as dilute as Warren's, and with the desmopressin, he started concentrating it at 1.050 within a week. In a way, desmopressin was an easy fix, and the dx was partial diabetes insipidus, which is very rare in cats, but part of that might be because most vets don't check for it. Within a couple weeks of my cat being diagnosed with it, my vet started checking other cats for it in his practice and found another case. It's worth a shot.
If you already have a UPCR or BUN/creatinine, please post those as well. My cat lived normally for almost 3 yrs after starting the desmopressin...
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I really wish I had known about this when my Woodstock's health was failing. I just thought his kidneys were failing too when his urine had no odor... :'(
 
Rob, my old boy Squallie has some arthritis. I don't often notice it; he still plays and chases laser mice, and occasionally ambushes another kitty for a tussle, but I know it's there. He maybe doesn't play quite as often as he used to, sometimes - not always - has a little bit of indecisiveness figuring how to jump up on something (that was really my first clue), only sometimes does he have actual difficulty with it. It's very subtle; cats are so very good at hiding pain! If you don't look really hard sometimes you won't see what they're trying so hard to hide. :):)
 
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