wait or up dose? Asher 1/19

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donnahc

donnahc

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Hi folks:
Didn’t mean to cut out here, had to go to a funeral and do some general life stuff :shock:

The grey dude is doing well. Amazing how nice his coat has gotten and he plays and is happy and spirited.
Anyhow, we are in the process of switching Asher’s food from SD m/d to the blue buffalo low carb wet food. Tomorrow we should be thru that transition and Friday he will get no m/d.

Maybe it’s me but I am not seeing his numbers move that much, so I am guessing we are going to increase the dose. But was curious if you make a food switch how long a numbers change could take.
I know you said with some cats it can drop quickly.

Just wondered what is a reasonable time to stick with 2 units before we increase. His SS is current. He’s been in the 2-300s now for two days.

Thanks tons,

Donna and Asher
 
I would be tempted to hold onto the 2u and try to work out the night time feeding to reduce those AMPS if possible. I've noticed that it can take up to a week from the last that they touched high carb [medium carb in this case], for the numbers to just begin to reflect the changes. And it can happen immediately too. So that's a week from when they are totally 100% low carb.

How is the feeding at night thing going? It still looks like you are having the AMPS consistently higher. And in terms of fine tuning the diet thing, just in general spreading those meals out over time and evening things out I'm hopeful could help with some of the spikes too. If you are thinking about a timed feeder, I saw a PetSafe 5 on ebay the other day delivered for $30. And google shopping is another option too: http://www.google.com/search?q=petsafe+5

In general to start with [unless you have instant success] it is pretty much a process of eliminating the variability and things that can cause issues, and refining and refining. That way you get to know what works for your kitty and what does not seem to matter.
 
I am way cool to hold onto the 2 units if you guys think it’s best. I’d love him to be on the least amt of meds he needs ultimately.

Everyday seems to be different with Asher and food. Last night he acted like he was starving before we went to bed, so I felt like I needed to give him something, so he got an extra tablespoon of wet food (mixed both brands) and that satisfied him. Tonight we fed him a whole can (the equivalent since we are mixing two foods) and he only eats 3/4 of it. I put the rest in the fridge for tomorrow. He is sleeping now so my guess is he’s done eating for the night.

Generally he will only ever eat 3/4 can per feeding, he "buries it" then walks away. The variable is before bed if we are up past 10, and maybe mid day (around his +4 to +6) he’ll bug the crap out of Tom so he gets a few more chicken cube treats.

Is that feeding consistent enough to get a good reading on him?

You mention spreading meals out. Do you mean throughout the day, or just in the evening? His PMPS always seems to be lower. Could the slight bit of exercise he gets during the day account for that too?

-donna
 
donnahc said:
Is that feeding consistent enough to get a good reading on him?...

You mention spreading meals out. Do you mean throughout the day, or just in the evening? His PMPS always seems to be lower. Could the slight bit of exercise he gets during the day account for that too?
Click to expand...
Just being really detailed, I really have no idea if that is consistent enough just because I don't have the data from day to day to see how many calories that works out to etc. It comes down the the calories he consumes which is basically the weight of the food he eats - day and night then day to day. If you are the detailed oriented type you can count calories, if not then you can just try to take the total amount of food he should be eating per day and give that in portion controlled amounts since you have a hoover kitty on your hands. I would be hopeful that with 5 feedings per cycle you could get the amount per feeding down to under 3/4 cup per feeding? I have not used the PetSafe 5 I would hope you could program it for 5 feedings over 12-ish hours?

Spreading the meals out, I do mean throughout the day - AND night. I would expect that if your kitty ate less during the day he might be more hungry at night and thus allowing you to balance things out?

Exercise could easily be a reason for lower BG in the evening. Are you consistently giving him exercise during the day? If you don't give him exercise during the day then what happens?

There is also the "dawn phenomenon" too:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dawn-effect/AN01213

But the couple cats that come to my mind with consistently higher morning BGs are ones that have uneven feeding. So that's why I'm suspicious about smoothing out the diet.

Basically it is a matter of problem solving, eliminating the variables :smile: and experimenting to know what does have an effect and what does not. If you haven't noticed I tend to be a little "detail" oriented so that's one of my slants on the advice I give. :smile:
 
Well, speaking about variables (even with an auto feeder), his brother Alby comes into play. Hoover Asher will eat Alby’s food if we don’t police their feedings. One eats on top of table and one eats on the floor. (Remember, they used to be on their own and free feed all day on dry.)

I don’t think in reality Asher would eat more dramatically overall, but how would we know who eats what if we can’t be home when they eat. At least if we feed them twice a day, we know or a cat sitter would know who ate what, then the bowls go away so there is no question.

The sympathetic momma fights the feeling it is mean to not let them free feed, but maybe that’s how I got fat cats :(

I dunno, it’s a tough thing. We are home a lot now because it’s our slow work season. I am trying to create new good habits for all of us that a cat sitter could handle if we can’t be here for work reasons. I’m not even considering ever going on vacation again :(

All that being said, if the only way we can get his blood sugar down is to feed him smaller meals throughout the day and night, I guess we’ll just have to try.

-donna

ps... We don’t consistently exercise him, but try to periodically play laser or use our scratchers or play with mousies for enrichment reasons. Enriched kitties seem to get into less trouble here :)
 
I'm not sure if I have shared this link with you or not but I think Dr. Pierson has done and excellent job on her feline obesity writeup here:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity
Sorry if I'm on repeat.

You can also visit this page that she links to that is another visual representation for overweight nor not:
Purina body condition system - visual description of over, under and ideal weight for cats

I have a SS for calculating how much cats should eat too if you get to that point just ask.

Getting a hold on the weight issue is another thing that might help Asher. I would kind of rate that as a mid to longer term goal but something you can start working on currently. Just like with humans, obesity is a problem for cats with diabetes.

If you can be lucky enough to free feed it is ideal. And maybe someday you can get there once they get back into fighting shape. Fat cats can come from the kibble too. Weighing the cats is a good way to know the progress [or lack of it] you are making. And I do recommend working with your vet [if possible] if you decide to pursue a weight loss diet. It's important that they not lose weight too fast.

One idea is to use 2 timed feeders and place them in different areas of the house and have them go off at the same time [if possible]?? Again I've not used one so I'm unsure of their precision. Some cats tend to claim certain areas of the house so you could put the feeders in each's domain.

And lastly I'm hopeful that the food change alone will help smooth things out. So I'm just kind of throwing a lot of things out there for you and you can work on them as you see fit.

I've not had to deal with on overweight cat and diabetes so I'm hoping you might get some input from others that have. Our problem was not enough weight.
 
We have seen positive changes already in both cats since switching to wet food. First off their dandruff got WAY better, almost non existent. And their coast are more silky. And that is just in 3 weeks.
Asher did loose some weight when he was peeing a lot before he was diagnosed. Currently he is about 16 lbs. He is a big kitty overall, big paws, long, etc., but I know he should loose more weight.

As soon as the budget allows I want to get a scale for them. I don’t know if I want to get my vet involved in weight loss right now. She told me the science diet would help him loose weight. I just don’t want to get into food with her again and have the science diet book and sales pitch crap come out again.

I stumbled on that food link at catinfo.org the day I found you wonderful people. The link is in my diabetes folder :) I was pretty amazed to say the least.

I really think I have to keep the feeding times as close to twice a day as I can right now. Mostly so they can be policed. I just think Hoover kitty Asher will take over the food here and that won’t be good for either cat.
But I am keeping all these suggestions in mind as we progress. As things evolve, what might not be good now may be good later.

Wonder if we feed the kitties earlier in the evening would help? Might be rough fending off Asher for snacks later, but would a few chicken snacks later be better than all his evening food at 6 or 7?

Thanks Gator. You are always a wealth of info :)

-donna
 
Charlie was overweight (20#) till a couple years ago. On a restricted calorie diet fed 5 times a day (with the help of an auto feeder) he lost 5 pounds. Unfortunately the diet kibbles he was eating (we pulled him off all wet food and just fed diet kibbles at the vet's instructions) most likely contributed to his diabetes. When he was diagnosed in September he was down to 13# which was too skinny, cuz he's really tall and really long. Since going on insulin he is back up to 15#. But we still have to restrict his food intake. I truly believe he'd be back on the path of obesity if we didn't because he is a total Hoover. We use the petsafe feeder. We have 2 kitties, too, but they don't get along anymore, so they live in separate sections of the house. So that isn't a variable for us- we know exactly who eats what. Don't misunderstand-- I'm NOT recommending separating your kitties. It breaks my heart that my sweet Charlie and Darla don't get along anymore. But I guess now it's for the best since I'm sure he'd eat all of her food if they were back together.

I just weigh Charlie with me on our human scale. I know it isn't precise, but i at least gives me some idea of where he is.
 
That’s a good idea to weigh them with you on a scale Claudia.

I am really sure the kibble we used to feed these guys contributed to Asher’s diabetes and both of them being overweight. Wish I had known earlier :(

I really couldn’t separate our dudes at all the way our house is. We only have one room with a door here. So I have to try to make this work keeping them together.
They are brothers and have been together their entire lives and we just can’t change that. They are so sweet together, when not stealing each other’s food ;)

I jinxed it when I said earlier that Asher might be done eating for the night. I hear him peeping downstairs in the kitchen, which means "more fud mom!”
I am gonna try to ignore that for right now :)

-d.
 
Our fatty cat, Scooter, used to be a dry food eating machine. Since we switched everyone to a low carb canned diet, Scooter has lost almost 2 pounds. Just wanted to throw that out there. lol

I agree with sticking with the dose, especially as you switch the food over.
 

"Maybe it’s me but I am not seeing his numbers move that much"
There's a large difference between the blue and red numbers you're getting.

What you want to see are less dramatic swings in the numbers. What you try to do is find a dose that's neither too much nor not enough and stick with that until you see it level out for 5+ days.

Asher's still bouncing and it can take days after you find a 'good' dose for that to work itself out. I'd stick with the 2.0 as long as you have pink and high yellows.

As for what to shoot on a high blue number or low yellow.... someone with a lot more experience than me needs to advise you on that. Perhaps 1.4, 1.2? I'm not a fan of skipping a dose (unless PS is green) especially at this early stage.

I'd definitely not up the dose. If anything, you may be getting to the point of a lower dose.

You are doing really, REALLY well for only only 16 days!

PS... keep in mind I'm an old newbie. We need to get the 'pros' advice! :smile:

BTW.. Do you have a hypo kit and the instructions printed out in a handy place yet?
 
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