vomiting on empty stomach

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Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

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the past 2-3 days, Murphy has vomited a few minutes after he took his first few bites of canned food after amps and pmps. After he vomited the small amount of food, he felt good and continued eating as normal and would eat the wet food throughout the day as normal. Tonight, he ate a little, then vomited it all - this time he wouldn't go back to eating it (of course, I had already shot him full amount) - he is eating some Young Again. Murphy had a lifelong history of GI intolerance to canned food, and I was so happy I finally got the novel protein venison to work I hope this is just something temporary. I'm starting to give him pepcid- as it really was just the first few bites (when he had a completely empty stomach) but now it seems to be something more than that. Any one have any ideas? Has anyone ever used slippery elm?
 
I know I have seen slippery elm mentioned on the board quite a few times. You might post that as a question on Health to catch the eyes of those who don't use Prozinc?
 
thanks my vet friend thinks it is probably a reappearance of his ?IBD I'm only feeding YA for a few days and try to slowly introduce the venison
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Has anyone ever used slippery elm?
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Yes, many of our members have used slippery elm bark.

From Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to CKD: http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#SEB_what_is_it
Note: She says to not give Pepcid with SEB.

A thread in another forum had a good SEB discussion worth reading including 2 methods of preparation and how to store. In the thread, Marje mentions SEB should be separated from all meds by 1-2 hours: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520, +2 431 - Slippery Elm Bark question

Marje and Gracie has always been a great source of information when it comes to using Slippery Elm Bark. You could tag her or send her a private message if you have any questions.
 
Carol, I am so sorry that Murphy is back to vomiting after eating the wet. My civvie cat, Forrest does the same thing about every other week. I have started picking him up and holding him upright over my shoulder after he has eaten and turned away from his food. It has seemed to help. I had read where some animals have the reflux so badly that their beans bought or made these feeding stations where they are basically eating in a vertical position to have gravity help with keeping the food down. It seems to help Forrest when I remember to pick him up and hold him over my shoulder for a few minutes.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Carol, I am so sorry that Murphy is back to vomiting after eating the wet. My civvie cat, Forrest does the same thing about every other week. I have started picking him up and holding him upright over my shoulder after he has eaten and turned away from his food. It has seemed to help. I had read where some animals have the reflux so badly that their beans bought or made these feeding stations where they are basically eating in a vertical position to have gravity help with keeping the food down. It seems to help Forrest when I remember to pick him up and hold him over my shoulder for a few minutes.
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thanks Bobbie - I would never had thought of that - although with Murphy it seems to be lifelong intolerance and I think it is some sort of IBD type thing - but I'll definitely try this tip. I see there is a big discussion again of meters - I am sticking with the AT meter as it is calibrated to be similar to what a cat's blood draw value would be- and my brain is such that I want to know what the actual blood sugar is -not that it is actually higher by some unknown amount I get the price issue but now that I'm having a terrible time poking without him biting me.........I might try the freestyle light strips with the AT meter and see what was suggested But so so so happy the ketones are gone - what a huge relief Hang in there!!
 
Carol & Murphy said:
thanks Bobbie - I would never had thought of that - although with Murphy it seems to be lifelong intolerance and I think it is some sort of IBD type thing - but I'll definitely try this tip. I see there is a big discussion again of meters - I am sticking with the AT meter as it is calibrated to be similar to what a cat's blood draw value would be- and my brain is such that I want to know what the actual blood sugar is -not that it is actually higher by some unknown amount I get the price issue but now that I'm having a terrible time poking without him biting me.........I might try the freestyle light strips with the AT meter and see what was suggested But so so so happy the ketones are gone - what a huge relief Hang in there!!
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How is Murphy today? Hope holding him upright for a few minutes after he eats helps. I am not sure if I am going with the AT2 or not, another expense especially if I switch to Lantus (very expensive) Bubba continues to rise. I shot 3 u this morning, but thinking 2.8 was a better dose at least he came down to 216 @ + 2.5 on Thanksgiving evening. I am worn out with worry .
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
How is Murphy today? Hope holding him upright for a few minutes after he eats helps. I am not sure if I am going with the AT2 or not, another expense especially if I switch to Lantus (very expensive) Bubba continues to rise. I shot 3 u this morning, but thinking 2.8 was a better dose at least he came down to 216 @ + 2.5 on Thanksgiving evening. I am worn out with worry .
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Oh Bobbie - I know about the worry and exhaustion - I am so sorry - but look, the ketones being gone are good, good, good. And you will know a lot more after the exam and complete set of blood work. So just keep a positive outlook of the very real chance that something will pop up on the blood work that will be easy to fix
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Oh Bobbie - I know about the worry and exhaustion - I am so sorry - but look, the ketones being gone are good, good, good. And you will know a lot more after the exam and complete set of blood work. So just keep a positive outlook of the very real chance that something will pop up on the blood work that will be easy to fix
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Nothing showed up in the blood work, I thought I posted the result in my thread about ketones, but maybe not. So, not sure what to think anymore. Vet thought going higher was the answer and his BG are going higher with a higher dose.....
Or she said we could try the switch to Lantus.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nothing showed up in the blood work, I thought I posted the result in my thread about ketones, but maybe not. So, not sure what to think anymore. Vet thought going higher was the answer and his BG are going higher with a higher dose.....
Or she said we could try the switch to Lantus.
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Sorry I thought you would still be waiting for other tests, like thyroid. Is he still so hungry? Are you feeding on different schedules? I still think you should bump up the calories if he is still losing weight and is so hungry. I still wish we would hear more about cases of successes from cats switched from Prozinc to Levemir or Lantus.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Sorry I thought you would still be waiting for other tests, like thyroid. Is he still so hungry? Are you feeding on different schedules? I still think you should bump up the calories if he is still losing weight and is so hungry
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I did bump up and yes he is still hungry and I am feeding him tines a day and it doesn't seem to matter; he is still hungry.....
 
Sharon14 said:
Good morning Carol, how is Murphy this AM? Is he better about testing?




Did they test his thyroid?
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Murphy is eating exclusively YA now - his stools are soft and smelly - not sure if result of IBD or YA (he had this when I first switched him to YA- it resolved quickly) I guess this will be good test of YA and if it affects Blood Glucose or not - so far his sugars have been what I would have seen on wet food I plan to re-introduce the venison again in a day or two but slowly probably in mid day because he had most trouble when he ate it on an empty stomach (at pmps and amps) How about Colin, Sharon? I see you are going to increase again.
 
Colin was very high this AM, 516 (haven't updated his SA, because it's too depressing) I've increased to 7.5 and plan to be more aggressive, I was afraid to before now, because I was gone a lot in the last two weeks. Fortunately he seems to feel fine.

Hope Murphy does well on the YA, and if he does, would you even have to go back to the canned?
 
Sharon14 said:
Colin was very high this AM, 516 (haven't updated his SA, because it's too depressing) I've increased to 7.5 and plan to be more aggressive, I was afraid to before now, because I was gone a lot in the last two weeks. Fortunately he seems to feel fine.

Hope Murphy does well on the YA, and if he does, would you even have to go back to the canned?
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I'm really sorry about Colin it does seem like it is time to get more aggressive - wonder what is causing this - thankfully he feels okay what about his weight and water intake?
good question about the canned - we'll see (I know that is heresey on this board)
 
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
You have to do what works for Murphy, Carol. You want to be sure both of you have a good quality of life - keeping him in safe numbers, but feeling well also.
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Thank you, Sue I realize this is a marathon, not a race. Hopefully I'll be able to get him back on the venison as I (of course) just bought 2 cases (@$66/case)
 
Carol, I'm glad that Murphy will eat the YA! Canned is better, but not if he won't eat it or if it makes him sick. You know?
 
Rachel said:
Carol, I'm glad that Murphy will eat the YA! Canned is better, but not if he won't eat it or if it makes him sick. You know?
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Thanks Rachel - I'm so glad you guys aren't judgmental on this Prozinc site - hope you all had a good Thanksgiving I did, but paid for it yesterday with some bad GI/headachey thing going on Better today though
 
Carol & Murphy said:
I'm really sorry about Colin it does seem like it is time to get more aggressive - wonder what is causing this - thankfully he feels okay what about his weight and water intake?
good question about the canned - we'll see (I know that is heresy on this board)
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Sue and Rachel are right, you are doing a great job with Murphy and his IBD isn't making it easy. I hope he can get back on the canned, but if not, feed him what he can eat.

Colin lost a few ounces in the last couple weeks, maybe because of the diarrhea. He's eating good and drinking plenty, so hopefully he'll gain it back.

Glad you're feeling better!
 
@Sharon14 have you used slippery elm? How do you use it? make it into a liquid or the powder.
Murphy's insulin requirements may go down with the YA vs canned - he's been at 70 all afternoon
 
What great numbers Carol. YA may be the right food for Murphy. I haven't given the SEB to Colin, I've just taken it myself and I used capsules. I would probably just mix the powder in the canned food for Colin, but I'm not sure if Murphy would eat it on the dry, so maybe do the slurry thing.
 
Sharon14 said:
What great numbers Carol. YA may be the right food for Murphy. I haven't given the SEB to Colin, I've just taken it myself and I used capsules. I would probably just mix the powder in the canned food for Colin, but I'm not sure if Murphy would eat it on the dry, so maybe do the slurry thing.
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I've been reading such good things about it - I wonder why it isn't used more widely? it seems so safe
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Awesome numbers today, Carol! How much YA did you give him at a time and how often?
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I feed Murph 1/8 cup at amps and 1/8 cup at pmps and split another 1/8 cup between am snack and pm snack that = 225 calories - sometimes I give him a little more - I'm just sorting this out as he was on wet food until 2 days ago - will restart that slowly today I had to give him some Evo and some Royal Canin Glycobalance kibble (to steer him out of 70 at +6) His nadir is usually at +7 or so - these are AT numbers so hypo on AT starts at 68 - how's that for cutting it close? Bobbie - you have room to push Bubba up on the prozinc
 
First of all, I love reading all you all conversations. I learn a lot of the things that you all have tried, things that work, things that don't, etc. So, I have a question for you all regarding YA dry. My parents have a five year old cat. I am petrified that she is going to get diabetes. This is kind of mean but I told them that I would not be able to take care of her (they would no-way be able to test or give shots due to their age) nor would any of my brothers would be able to if anything should happen to them or if she should get diabetes. They LOVE their cat whose name is Pumpkin. I have tried and tried to get them to change food. Right now, she is eating Purina Pro Plan Adult dry food which I think it is 34-37 carbs. I have bought FF for them, had them read catinfo.org and told them many, many stories about diabetes and dry food. I think one reason is that it is hard for them to open cans however they have not mentioned this to me. The reason why they won't change they say is because Pumpkin likes her food and she likes to graze all day. So if they will not change from dry to wet, maybe they should consider YA since it is dry and low carb and she can still somewhat graze. What do you all think? If so, how much should she get? She weighs about 10 lbs and is at a good weight. Is this the kind to get? https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/zero-formula.html
 
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Carol & Murphy said:
I feed Murph 1/8 cup at amps and 1/8 cup at pmps and split another 1/8 cup between am snack and pm snack that = 225 calories - sometimes I give him a little more - I'm just sorting this out as he was on wet food until 2 days ago - will restart that slowly today I had to give him some Evo and some Royal Canin Glycobalance kibble (to steer him out of 70 at +6) His nadir is usually at +7 or so - these are AT numbers so hypo on AT starts at 68 - how's that for cutting it close? Bobbie - you have room to push Bubba up on the prozinc
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That's awesome that you got such great numbers today! About the Prozinc, I am just so lost with it. I pushed him up to 3 and the numbers seemed to get worse. Tonight, it seems better, right when I thought I needed to go back down to 2.8. If you look at his SS, he had a better cycle on 11/26 at PM on 2.6 units. Mind bending......
 
Sharon14 said:
Colin was very high this AM, 516 (haven't updated his SA, because it's too depressing) I've increased to 7.5 and plan to be more aggressive, I was afraid to before now, because I was gone a lot in the last two weeks. Fortunately he seems to feel fine.

Hope Murphy does well on the YA, and if he does, would you even have to go back to the canned?
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Sharon, I am so sorry that Colin was so high this AM. I was wondering earlier this AM when I peaked at the SS and nothing was there yet. Here' s hoping tomorrow will be better. I feel your pain....
 
Merlin said:
First of all, I love reading all you all conversations. I learn a lot of the things that you all have tried, things that work, things that don't, etc. So, I have a question for you all regarding YA dry. My parents have a five year old cat. I am petrified that she is going to get diabetes. This is kind of mean but I told them that I would not be able to take care of her (they would no-way be able to test or give shots due to their age) nor would any of my brothers would be able to if anything should happen to them or if she should get diabetes. They LOVE their cat whose name is Pumpkin. I have tried and tried to get them to change food. Right now, she is eating Purina Pro Plan Adult dry food which I think it is 34-37 carbs. I have bought FF for them, had them read catinfo.org and told them many, many stories about diabetes and dry food. I think one reason is that it is hard for them to open cans however they have not mentioned this to me. The reason why they won't change they say is because Pumpkin likes her food and she likes to graze all day. You all know the story. So if they will not change from dry to wet, maybe they should consider YA since it is dry and low carb and she can still somewhat graze. What do you all think?
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It would be a great alternative for them. It is pricey but an average cat about 12 lbs only needs 1/3 cup all day. As far as the can and them not being able to open them, the FF are pull tops, very easy for older arthritic fingers.
 
Merlin said:
First of all, I love reading all you all conversations. I learn a lot of the things that you all have tried, things that work, things that don't, etc. So, I have a question for you all regarding YA dry. My parents have a five year old cat. I am petrified that she is going to get diabetes. This is kind of mean but I told them that I would not be able to take care of her (they would no-way be able to test or give shots due to their age) nor would any of my brothers would be able to if anything should happen to them or if she should get diabetes. They LOVE their cat whose name is Pumpkin. I have tried and tried to get them to change food. Right now, she is eating Purina Pro Plan Adult dry food which I think it is 34-37 carbs. I have bought FF for them, had them read catinfo.org and told them many, many stories about diabetes and dry food. I think one reason is that it is hard for them to open cans however they have not mentioned this to me. The reason why they won't change they say is because Pumpkin likes her food and she likes to graze all day. You all know the story. So if they will not change from dry to wet, maybe they should consider YA since it is dry and low carb and she can still somewhat graze. What do you all think?
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Hi Cindi - I don't know if I would give it to a 5 year old - although they have a mature and a formulation for a younger cat. Why do you think this cat will get diabetes? Are those FF cans really hard to open? (I am temporarily living with my 95 year old mom so you don't have to answer that- no way could she or my sister ever deal with this) I guess two suggestions - feed one 5 oz can (half in am and half in pm) and for the rest of the day, feed Evo or Young Again. One bad thing with both Evo and Young Again is that they are VERY high in calories - so one cup = 600 calories. Depending on the size of the cat, they wouldn't be able to eat very much of it or they would get really fat and then really have diabetes.
 
Hi Cindi, the YA people tell you to feed free choice and that the cats don't eat a lot of it because it's so concentrated, but I've read, on this forum, to watch that they eat enough, because some cats don't like it and haven't eaten enough and end up with problems from that. My cats all love it, so far, but I don't free feed(can't afford that with this brood!)Evo is another possibility
 
Bubbaa would eat a bowl of it if I let him. I couldn't free feed because of his hoggish ways. You can call them Cindi, they have great customer service and will answer any questions you have. The owner of the company called me back 3 times to get me started. They are really nice people in based in MN.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
I don't know if I would give it to a 5 year old - although they have a mature and a formulation for a younger cat. Why do you think this cat will get diabetes
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Thanks Carol. What do you mean that you don't think I should give it to a 5 year old? Is it for just older cats? I guess after reading stories from this site, I am afraid all cats will get diabetes because of eating dry food. I know that is nonsense but after being here for two years and that is all you read, I just afraid for all cats. I have been able to convince all my other relatives who have cats to change their cat food but not my mom and dad.

Is this the YA cat food that you buy or is there another one that you suggest? https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/zero-formula.html Where do you buy it? Do you have a link for the EVO low carb dry?

Bobbie And Bubba said:
It is pricey but an average cat about 12 lbs only needs 1/3 cup all day.
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Thanks Bobbie. 1/3 cup per day isn't that much however this cat doesn't eat that much anyway. My dad has said that she drinks some water but nothing at all excessive.

Sharon14 said:
YA people tell you to feed free choice and that the cats don't eat a lot of it because it's so concentrated, but I've read, on this forum, to watch that they eat enough, because some cats don't like it and haven't eaten enough and end up with problems from that.
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Thanks Sharon. That makes sense regarding watching what they eat and will have to watch the weight. I will take Bobbie's suggestion and call the company see if they will send samples. Maybe I will try that first.

Thank you all for your suggestions.
 
I meant that I am wary of feeding just one product to a cat for a lifetime - especially a cat that is so young. I'm always wary that they will be missing some essential nutrient I am a fan of variety - so I think YA is fine but I would mix it up a bit with something else The big drawback would be the calories and the small amount they could eat, but if the cat is okay with that, sure - go for it. I think it seems like a very reputable company that really cares about its' products.
 
Merlin said:
First of all, I love reading all you all conversations. I learn a lot of the things that you all have tried, things that work, things that don't, etc. So, I have a question for you all regarding YA dry. My parents have a five year old cat. I am petrified that she is going to get diabetes. This is kind of mean but I told them that I would not be able to take care of her (they would no-way be able to test or give shots due to their age) nor would any of my brothers would be able to if anything should happen to them or if she should get diabetes. They LOVE their cat whose name is Pumpkin. I have tried and tried to get them to change food. Right now, she is eating Purina Pro Plan Adult dry food which I think it is 34-37 carbs. I have bought FF for them, had them read catinfo.org and told them many, many stories about diabetes and dry food. I think one reason is that it is hard for them to open cans however they have not mentioned this to me. The reason why they won't change they say is because Pumpkin likes her food and she likes to graze all day. So if they will not change from dry to wet, maybe they should consider YA since it is dry and low carb and she can still somewhat graze. What do you all think? If so, how much should she get? She weighs about 10 lbs and is at a good weight. Is this the kind to get? https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/zero-formula.html
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Let them see and read Dr. P's info about dry food and urinary issues like blockage. And maybe this is mean, but ask your dad "how do you think THAT would feel, Dad?"
I think the long term kidney, bladder, UT problems caused by dry food are a bigger risk than a kitty getting diabetes from dry food. Every cat I ever had before Bob got FD was free fed dry food, as much as they wanted. Only Bob got diabetes. At least 20 others didn't. However, three of them suffered later in life from urinary problems. Until I saw Dr. Lisa's site, I never connected the dots. No vet ever told me dry was bad or caused problems. Most said it was "good for their teeth" and we all know that's a crock of crap.
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
Let them see and read Dr. P's info about dry food and urinary issues like blockage. And maybe this is mean, but ask your dad "how do you think THAT would feel, Dad?"
I think the long term kidney, bladder, UT problems caused by dry food are a bigger risk than a kitty getting diabetes from dry food. Every cat I ever had before Bob got FD was free fed dry food, as much as they wanted. Only Bob got diabetes. At least 20 others didn't. However, three of them suffered later in life from urinary problems. Until I saw Dr. Lisa's site, I never connected the dots. No vet ever told me dry was bad or caused problems. Most said it was "good for their teeth" and we all know that's a crock of crap.
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I think if he was fed a mixture of wet and some YA, that would be fine especially if it is mostly wet
 
I think it can be a necessary compromise - if Murphy is going to vomit after every meal and if your parents can't manage the wet. My compromise for both would be to continue to look for a wet novel protein that Murphy will get and to see if your parents, Cindi, could open the pop top cans at least part of the time. I suppose you could also go the frozen route with them? Put a bunch of frozen pucks for them when you visit so they just let them thaw a little and then feed them?

I agree that wet is always best. But I also know that people have lives and are already struggling with multiple issues, whether it is getting older or having a diabetic cat or digestive issues. My theory is that you do the best you can with what you are given...sounds like something my mother would probably have said.
 
Hugs to Carol, Sharon and Bobbie! Y'all have had some upsetting days and I know how worrisome this is. Rupert did pretty well with my care giver, but had some numbers in the 500's. Not sure why, seems to feel fine, acting normal. Numbers better yesterday and so far today. Hang in there my friends and here's hoping for better numbers, good eating and no vomiting! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thanks Lynn and right back to you. Maybe Rupert got into some pumpkin pie. :cat: I am going to start Bubba on Lantus hopefully tomorrow evening after I talk to the vet. No progress on ProZinc and after two day on 3 units he steadily went up. His lowest numbers last night were the Pre shoots and he was the highest during the onset. Doesn't make sense. It's scary to try a different insulin and wishing that @Sue and Oliver (GA) and @Rachel and @Merlin would move to the L and L with me........ and Carol. Let's start a new forum called " Formerly Prozinc" Lower numbers for everyone. :bighug:
 
I think a new "Formerly Prozinc" forum is a great idea, Bobbie! It's not so bad on the L & L forum, there are some really good, helpful people on there. I was scared, but really didn't need to be. You will do fine! Sharon and I will be there to help, if we can! I think your decision to switch Bubba is a good idea, I know you have given PZI a good run and you are doing all you can to get Bubba better. Best of luck if you do decide to switch! We will be batting for you! :bighug:
 
Good luck Bobbie and Bubba as I am sure you are going to do just fine. You are taking so much knowledge with you and I am betting that it will be just a small adjustment for you two. I can't wait to see the positive results that Bubba will bring you.
 
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