Vomiting and cant pee!/updated 2/7

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Laura&Chichi (GA)

Laura&Chichi (GA)

Member Since 2014
I am starting a new thread for Chi Chi today. I increased .25 this am and fed her at 730. I get as call at 11 from mom saying she has thrown up 5 times. The first few times was the food, and then just clear liquid. I noticed her in the box this am and thought she peed but my mom said nothing in there after I left. Mom said after she threw up she was walking around and the stopped and her back end was twitching as if she was trying to pee. I came home and tested and she is 354. I picked her up and her bottom is stinky wet. Not sure what all this means! Please I need advice or thoughts on what to do. Thanks
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Take her to the vet. It sounds like she might have a blockage of some sort or something else might be going on.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Good luck at the vet Laura. They will be able to help her.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

So..tested blood and urine.No ketones or infection.he said maybe a reaction to those pure bites treats I started giving her yestetday. She is dehydrated so giving her sub q.said I should give purina dm??? Said need to bring her here for testing bg on Friday. .fasting no less..Said she's extremely high 454. This is a different Dr than she saw first time. I think he hasn't a clue!!!
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

I just brought her home and wow, that Dr. seemed stumped at everything I asked him. But basically, they tested for infection-none-ketones-none. He said since she was dehydrated that she couldn't pee, so he did sub q fluids. He seemed to think that possible dehydrated treats I gave her yesterday may have caused this. Did I overdo it? i gave her probably 6 or 7 during the 10 hours of testing. I really don't think that she peed yesterday at all and for sure not today. My mom said no large clumps yesterday and there was none this am either. He went through the whole testing thing with me on the human type meters, not being correct and asked why I hadn't been giving her 2u like the first Dr. wanted. He didn't listen when I told him she had been on 1.5 for 9 days because I wanted to increase slow. He said I was dosing wrong and should start her on 2u tonight and bring back Friday for fasting bg every week. And insist I giver her Purina dm. I was telling him everything I have been doing and it was like he had no answer to anything I questioned him about, he was fumbling for explanations. Even my mom said I know more that him. He also gave her something for the vomiting called Cerenia. I have a print out of her blood results if anyone has any questions Ill be happy to post them. I just feel like I need to watch her close so Im staying home the rest of the day.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Laura&Chichi said:
He seemed to think that possible dehydrated treats I gave her yesterday may have caused this. Did I overdo it? i gave her probably 6 or 7 during the 10 hours of testing.
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Absolutely not! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Mikey used to get about 15 treats at each test time (so like 100 treats a day) and he was no worse for wear. Yeah, ignore that vet. Sounds like he's absolutely clueless and just guessing

Cerenia should help as well as the fluids. I don't know enough about blood results to comment, but maybe someone else might be able to take a look and chime in.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

I dont know if he thinks it was a reaction of the "chicken" treats or the treats in general. She has eaten chicken and never had a problem before. He just said since thats the only change in diet, then it could be the treats and that it might be the chicken. He started explaining Lantus to me and how it works etc. and thinks Im adjusting dose too often. Well..he had my spreadsheet so if he looked at it like he says, then he would know I have had her on 1u for the first week then did 2u one dose and got low # so next dose was 1.5 and kept her there til I could do curve yesterday, which was 9 days total. I just this am increased to 1.75. I asked him shouldnt I keep her on 1.75 for a week and then if necessary go to 2u. He said "well youve been giving her 1.75 so thats not much of an increase". Duh!! I just told you today was the first 1.75 dose!!(I didnt say that out loud). Also really pushing the Purina DM, and had it up at the cashier for me when I checked out. I told the girl"dont ring that up..I am not giving her that as it is higher in carbs than she should have. I am giving FF classic less than 10% carbs and Im not changing it". I told her I have researched the food and feel she is fine with what shes eating. He also said she needs to have a curve there at the vet because all my numbers are probably incorrect due to the "human meter" Im using. I told him I know there is a +- 20%. The last thing he told me to do as he walked away was to go to Sugarkitty.com ? to read about the food choices. No thanks doc. I will stay with what Im doing(said in my head again). Sheesh!! On a positive note Im glad no ketones!
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Glad to hear Chi Chi is ok and back home.

Has she peed at all since this morning?

You might try to add a bit of extra water to her Fancy Feast canned food. Think applesauce consistency after you add the water and stir to mix it up.

So he thought the dehydrated treats caused your cat to become dehydrated?
And insist I giver her Purina dm.
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Was that the DM dry food he wanted you to feed? Makes me wonder what he thinks dry food is doing for cats, if he thought a couple of treats were causing her to be dehydrated.

He said I was dosing wrong and should start her on 2u tonight and bring back Friday for fasting bg every week.
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You could take her in for a fasting BG every week if that makes you feel more comfortable. And you can afford to do that. You are home testing though, so you can get better BG results at home.

He went through the whole testing thing with me on the human type meters, not being correct
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Well, thousands of users on this diabetic message board would disagree with him as you know. Human meters read differently for sure from lab equipment and pet meters. We have those reference ranges though, to show you what the numbers mean. Before Abbott Labs came out with the Alphatrak about 6 years ago, everyone used to use human meters, even the vets. Lots of vets still do.

Remember, the higher BG number you got at the vet was probably at least partially due to vet stress.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Laura&Chichi said:
I dont know if he thinks it was a reaction of the "chicken" treats or the treats in general. She has eaten chicken and never had a problem before. He just said since thats the only change in diet, then it could be the treats and that it might be the chicken.
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No, I don't think this is food related or related to a change in the diet. There's nothing that points to that. If anything, my first suspicion is that this is either a pancreatitis attack or a blockage of some sort.

Laura&Chichi said:
He started explaining Lantus to me and how it works etc. and thinks Im adjusting dose too often. Well..he had my spreadsheet so if he looked at it like he says, then he would know I have had her on 1u for the first week then did 2u one dose and got low # so next dose was 1.5 and kept her there til I could do curve yesterday, which was 9 days total. I just this am increased to 1.75. I asked him shouldnt I keep her on 1.75 for a week and then if necessary go to 2u. He said "well youve been giving her 1.75 so thats not much of an increase". Duh!! I just told you today was the first 1.75 dose!!(I didnt say that out loud).
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So, he wants you to increase by a full 1u and wait till Chi Chi drops too low on 2u and then decrease?? He wants you to jump around between wrong doses as you try to find the right dose and risk a hypo is basically what he's saying. ohmygod_smile

Laura&Chichi said:
Also really pushing the Purina DM, and had it up at the cashier for me when I checked out. I told the girl"dont ring that up..I am not giving her that as it is higher in carbs than she should have. I am giving FF classic less than 10% carbs and Im not changing it". I told her I have researched the food and feel she is fine with what shes eating.
...
The last thing he told me to do as he walked away was to go to Sugarkitty.com ? to read about the food choices. No thanks doc
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I googled some variations of this and either the websites are inactive or don't exist. There is a Sugar Cats blog, but there's no food choices on there. Not sure where he was wanting you to go? Maybe sugarpets.net? But that website doesn't have anything on food, either.

Laura&Chichi said:
He also said she needs to have a curve there at the vet because all my numbers are probably incorrect due to the "human meter" Im using. I told him I know there is a +- 20%. . I will stay with what Im doing(said in my head again). Sheesh!! On a positive note Im glad no ketones!
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If you're home-testing and the vet insists on doing a curve there, then that's usually a sign that they simply want to make money off you. There's a +/-20% variance for each meter, meaning you can use the same meter and test twice in the row on the same blood drop and get two different numbers that are within 20% variance of the "true" number. As to the difference between pet and human meters, it's akin to Celsius vs. Fahrenheit. BJ has a great reference chart that's floating around here and might even be in one of your previous posts.

And it's great that there were no ketones! One of my biggest worry when I first read your post was that Chi Chi might have DKA.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

I asked him if he thinks no blockage, then why isnt she peeing?. He said, well, from the test there is no infection which is what we look for , but I could start her on antibiotics, if you want, but it doesnt appear that she needs them. Said just watch her and if not better than bring her back and he can start them. At least she did pee when we got home so that made me feel better. He advised not to feed til tonite to let her tummy rest. he said some other things that didnt make since to me, but cant remember everything as I seriously started tuning him out after the first 10 min. or so of bs. Now I remember why after he misdiagnosed my dog awhile back that I switched to another Dr. there. Just so happens today he was the one I got!
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Glad to hear she is peeing again!!!!

Hopefully it was only because she was so dehydrated. Here are some dehydration checks you can do at home.

Dehydration checks
Do these 2 checks first, so you can report on them.
Moderate to severe dehydration test:
- does fur at the scruff of the neck stay tented, if pulled up and released?
Mild dehydration or more:
- press a finger onto gums and release; how many seconds before it pinks back up with blood again?

If you ever see that she is not peeing again, or peeing only tiny amounts like droplets or teaspoons, it could be a partial or full blockage in the urinary tract. Painful and it can rupture so a vet visit is in order.
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Just want to thank those who posted comments today. I really appreciate you all, and so does Chi Chi, who is acting normal so far. I just did pmps and she was 314. Dosed 1.75 tonite and will hold this dose and do another curve Friday(only day possible). I will be doing amps and pmps regularly and updating ss. I am watching her close and hoping for no more episodes like today. Thanks again, Laura
 
Re: Vomiting and cant pee!

Glad to hear she's better! My cat had serious eating issues twice so I know where you are coming from. I agree with adding water to the food. I do it for my civvies still...they live it! Been using warm water since it's cold and they eat right up!

If she starts vomiting again, you can give 1/4 tablet of 10 mg Pepcid. I used to put in a syringe and dissolve in a bit of water then shoot into Gypsy's mouth. She didn't like it but pilling her wasn't an option! You can do it 20-30 min before a meal to help settle the stomach. My vet had me doing it every meal for Gypsy until I decided to stop since she was fine. Just know that's an option.

The dehydration probably was a result of the vomiting. Definitely not the treats!

Cerenia is fine. Gypsy had it when we went to the vet for her not eating. It did help.

Keep us posted!!
 
Well, I got a call from Chi Chi's Dr.(one that diagnosed her) yesterday. She called to ask how she was doing after the episode wed. and pretty much insisted I am not doing right by Chi Chi by home testing her. She insist that I am getting false readings and that I need to bring her in today at least 3 times for bg test. I agreed, but after sleeping on it and not wanting to stress her out, I decided against it. She also questioned the increased food and said she told me not to change from 2 feeding to 3 due to spikes in #s. She seemed to think I am not dosing properly and shouldnt do .25 increases as its too hard to measure. She basically said to go up to 2u( like she instructed me previously, and keep her there and bring in weekly for test. I convinced her to stay at 1.5 for now and she agreed. She said that it was highly unlikely that the low #s I got yest am were right and that there was no way she went from 454 at the vet wed afternoon, to 41-61 next am. As to the food increase, I said I thought it would help because she acted so hungry between feedings 12 hours apart and she is still dropping weight, to which she said that when a cat isnt regulated, no matter how much I feed, she isnt using the food and is pretty much starving, increasing food will not add weight. I understand all this and it sorta makes sense, and now Im just confused on how to get her regulated. I think Im gonna look for a new vet today, but how should I go about it? What do I ask if I just start calling around? By the way, she charges 13.$ for each test, not alot, so cant seem that they are wanting to make money just testing her. Any replies are appreciated. Thanks
 
Laura,

I would start looking for a new vet. My vet did the same thing to me when my cat was diagnosed. If I would have kept my cat at the dosage she suggested my cat would have had a hypo. I do not think feeding twice a day is enough.
I would call around and ask the vets if they have current patients that are diabetic and if they are familiar with treating feline diabetes.
My vet also did not want me hometesting? :roll:

Terri
 
Psht! Time for a new vet I agree. Don't let them bully you. Home testing is better since you get numbers not induced by stress. If you ever get a weird number you can retest but I never got a second number that was much different. Where do you live? Someone on here may know of a vet near you.
 
Let's do the math - ok $13 per test right.

That means they will charge you $13 for every test strip they use. If they mess up or get an error message they will use a second test strip and charge another $13.

If your cat is there for 3 tests that is $39, plus the cost of keeping her, feeding her, etc. not to mention mess up strips.

You are using the relion meter and strips - and a box of 50 strips is what $10 or so....

You can get 50 tests, including mess ups for $10 vs. 3 tests for $39....still don't think you are being overcharged?

My bigger concern is that they didn't really check for a blockage or confirm to you dehydration or anything of the sort.

What I did in order to ensure that Maui got plenty of water, was to add anywhere from 1/2 - 1 can of water to 1 can of food for each meal. I basically gave two main meals, with treats and leaving freeze dried raw available for grazing. This seemed to work well for my cats.

If you are planning to look for a new vet, here is a checklist that you can follow that will help:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=67982&hilit=questions+to+ask+a+new+vet

http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabe ... stions.htm

I too had a vet that actually forbade me from testing Maui and told me that if I did, she would not treat her at all. When I pushed the issue she finally admitted the reason was that if I did something wrong, she did not want to be liable or for me to sue her because she was the vet. So it really had nothing to do with the well being of Maui, rather it was all about the vet and her not being sued. Just something else to think about.
 
Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
How to use the glucose reference values chart:

When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Time for a new Vet!!! Mine encouraged me to follow all the advice and protocols on this message board, she's the one that gave the link and other info she printed out from this message board. Dusty is OJT today because my Vet was educated enough to know the information on this message board was spot on and thanks to all the wonderful folks on there that know what they're talking about and their kindness to help us all out. Get a new Vet or keep him but follow the advise given to you here. Once diagnosed what do you need the vet for really? You have the insulin, you do your own testing, you have the correct food, short of a medical emergency everything you need is right here. :razz:
 
See my signature link Vet Interview Topics for some questions you may wish to ask when searching for a new vet.

Also, if you go to Google Maps and enter "veterinarians near" plus your address, it will map offices around your address (USA, not sure if it'll work elsewhere).
 
Just got back from the vet. I know I said I was thinking of looking for another, but I thought I would try to win the Dr. over to my testing, and knew just by talking on the phone and trying to explain what I was doing wasnt good enough. I felt like she needed to see the ss and let me explain. Since I didnt make it back there this am like she had asked, I called to say I would try to bring her Tues. I left that message with the tech and soon after I got a call from the asst. to ask if I could maybe bring her late afternoon for a test before her pm shot. I said I would, and I would like to bring my meter for them to test at the same time. So I go and before I left I tested and she was 122 at +9. So when they came out to take her back, I had my spreadsheet open on my phone and showed it to the tech and she said" wow, I wish I could show that to the Dr." So when the Dr. came in she said I tested her and she was 193. She asked to look at the ss and when she did it all changed. She was very pleased and only had a few concerns, which we talked about, but then I asked if she tested with my meter and she did not. She asked if she could draw a little blood from her leg and test her with my meter(she nor I had a lancet). I tested her and she was 152, but I put the strip on a drop that had landed on the table, so she had me redo and I got 173. She was pleased and said the curve I did on Tuesday was very very good and to keep her on 1.5 and bring her in 5-7 days to repeat what we did today. She said 50 % of her FD cats come off the insulin and she thinks Chi Chi might be one of those. I am relieved that I made some headway and really dont want to change vets. For the most part, she and most of the others there are great normally and I knew from all I have read on here that sometimes we just need to convince them we know what we are doing. I am so glad Chi Chi and I have all of you to educate us. Thanks, Laura
 
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