Vomiting - again!

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doombuggy

doombuggy

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Came home to more vomit on my new carpet today. I have had a talk with Cedric and told him if he needs to get sick, to do it on the tile. ;-)
But seriously, this is the third time he has vomited since Friday night. I have had him 5 years and he never gets sick. He's gotten sick about 3 other times prior to Friday, and I feel that he is alergic to liver. When I called the vet to see if they can run an algery test, was told $215. Pass. I'm almost postive that he's got an alergy, as the food he had today had chicken liver as the 2nd ingredent.

I went to Pet Smart on Monday (after he vomited Friday night after I went to bed, and early Saturday, on the tile thanks) to see what food I can buy that had no liver. Armed with J&B's list, I didn't come home with much. The food that Cedric had for meal #2 today was Wellness which I now noticed the liver ingredent.

Do you think that the farther down the list, the less there is of liver? If I give it to him spread out - such as at meal #1, then maybe at meal #4, it might be ok? He likes the turkey, but doesn't like getting sick, I am sure. his BG was 53 tonight, probably because he heaved a meal.

What are your thoughts on what foods he can have that are diabetic friendly, but liver free? It seems that most seafood flavors have no liver (duh) but he needs some chicken for fiber....

Thanks, friends!

edit to add: any suggestions on good carpet cleaner? I don't have luck with Resolve, and while the Woolite pod thing is working, it's not good enough. The carpet is beige/tan.
 
Doombuggy I feel your pain.
Tom vomits (as you know)
At least a couple times a month.
Sometimes soap and water have done the trick better than the stain removers. Sometimes not.
I guess it depends on what's coming up.
Cats DO NOT opt for the liver when the kill. (how would I know that?????)
So yes, try to get liver free food.
Nothing that blatently announce liver as the flavor.
Small amounts in the ingrediants are not great...but should'nt be that bad.
Lori
and tomtom
 
Ingredients are listed in order of quantity, so farther down the list, the less there is of it.

This is a post I found when searching 'novel protein'. This was in response to diarrhea, but maybe worth a shot for the vomiting? Have you tried Evo 95?
Blue said:
Atlas had the runny-poo's for nearly 9 months. We tried everything...

Finally the vet suggested a raw food diet. Of course he wanted to give me the recipe to make my own, but well...not my cup of tea...

So we tried Nature's Variety Raw Instinct(frozen patties, canned, freeze dried). The trick with a food trial is to give it a month and it must be a unique protein source. So, that means Venison, Rabbit, and even Bison. Unfortunately it is not inexpensive to go this route of the pre-made stuff. I believe Dr. Pierson's website has the recipe for the make your own raw too.

Raw Instinct also comes in cans for cat and dogs. You can usually find the dog food in the can. The duck and the venison are 7% carb. all the others are 13% carb, but like the steroid issue you would need to adjust the insulin. Psssttt....I spoke with their rep a while back and the dog fuds...same as the cat fuds. Actually the way she phrased it...it is originally formulated for cats. ;-)

The Raw actually cleared Atlas up within a few days. Yes, a few days, after months of A/bs, probiotics, etc. WE did top the raw rabbit with fortiflora the first month to help re-establish the good bacteria in his gut.
Click to expand...
 
I was thinking that if it's further down the list, the less it was - sigh. I will be reviewing the lists today and going to the store ready to label read again.

I did buy 2 cans of Evo 95% at the local pet store (non-chain) last week - beef and venison. I gave Cedric the beef on Sunday and he took about 2 bits and turned up his nose. Put in some parmasean cheese (oh i did not spell that right...), still wouldn't help. so the venison will be going back along with the other can of wellness that has liver as #2 ingredient.

Lori, I'll try the soap and water routine. Unfortunately, the food is a shade darker than my carpet...
 
Can't help with the food and vomitting issues, but.....Hydrogen peroxcide (sp?) will take a lot of stains out, just be sure to do a color safe check on an unseen spot first, as it may bleach darker colors. Also I have a Little Green Machine that I love for getting barf stains out...nothing like a mini steam cleaner. :-D Just set down over spot turn on and walk away, that is my kind of carpet cleaning...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I don't think Cedric has an allergy to just liver. Liver is an organ, and allergies are going to be to the type of animal protein like beef, or fish, or poultry, not just liver (because there's beef liver, chicken liver, etc.). So you want to find the protein source that's causing the problem, if there is an allergy. And that's done just like you're doing, by using a unique protein source like Venison or Rabbit.

Did Cedric turn up his nose at the EVO venison? You could also try Nature's Variety Instinct Lamb or Rabbit flavors, or also the Nature's variety venison or Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Pea. I'm not sure if they're on J&B list, but they are all low carb.

But I have another question--how soon after Cedric is eating is he vomiting? How many times a day does he eat? Bandit will vomit if he eats more than 2oz of food at a time because he eats too fast and aggressive. So I feed him in 4 smaller meals throughout the day. He'll also vomit if he starts running around the house like a crazy cat right after eating.
 
Doombuggy, many many cats are allergic to beef. And liver is NOT part of their diet in the wild.
Pic if you will, a cat attacking a cow for lunch?
And altho I'd always heard that cats eat muscle meat and leave behind the organs....I have first hand experience with that as Tom usually tears away and eats skin, fur, head, claws, muscle...but with surgical pricision...leaves behind heart, liver, and an almost in tact entire digestive system.
It's a truly amazing feat.
 
But I do not want to leave behind the impression (as some have shown to have) that Tom is not the Sweetest and most Charming cat you would ever want to meet.
He is a good boy.
Just cause he is a murderer who frequently make me sick to my stomach is no reason to find him unattractive in any way...
I rest my case.
 
It could also be pancreatitis, cholangiohepatitis, hepatic lipidosis, or any one of a number of other things. Be careful about assuming its food allergy, as some of these can make the cat quite ill.

For the protein source allergy testing, the elimination diet approach may be very effective. Basically you eliminate 1 source at a time, for a couple of weeks, then reintroduce it to see if symptoms return.

Another approach is to rotate through each protein source type so that the same one is not used 2 days in a row.

The fillers - corn, rice, wheat, etc - may also be sources of allergens. These are harder to eliminate unless you go to prescription food, or make your own cat food.
 
lori and tom said:
Doombuggy, many many cats are allergic to beef. And liver is NOT part of their diet in the wild.
Pic if you will, a cat attacking a cow for lunch?
Click to expand...

Liver is not a bad ingredient, though, as long as the cat likes the food. It's high in protein, and cuts down the ash content. But a cat can't have an allergy to just liver in general.

And while some cats are allergic to beef, most cats handle it just fine. Some cats have seafood and chicken allergies (seafood is by far the most common cat food allergy), but they would eat those things in the wild. So I wouldn't discourage feeding beef unless it is a known allergy for that particular cat. It's hard enough as it is to find good, nutritionally balanced cat food that your cat likes.

I'm hesitant to think Cedric's problem is a food allergy at all, since it doesn't seem to be related to a specific type of animal protein.
 
I did buy the Evo venison, but since he turned his nose up at the beef, I was going to take the venison back with out opening it. I basically threw out that 5.5 oz can of beef.
the reason why I felt that he has a liver alergy is because on the past occasions that he has been sick, he eat something that had liver on the label - for example FF tender liver and chicken feast. I used to give him 1 3oz can of FF per day along with his dry. now he gets almost twice of the canned food that he used to get, so I was thinking that my idea of an laergy was correct.

Maybe the idea of an allergy test, while expensive, might be worth it? BJM mentions some other possible causes...I want him to be a healthy boy. Even if he is a troublemaker...
I have seperated his cans into a pile that has no liver whatsoever and a smaller pile that has liver of some form as an ingredient. I bought some cans of FF classic again on Monday and want to try to work them into his diet. I plan on going back to the local pet food store (they have a great selection of "other brands" that are not usually sold at the chains) tomorrow armed with all the lists from here. I highlighted soms stuff while listening to the Casey sentancing hearing today.

Your thoughts are appreciated and keep 'em coming.

And, Lori, we know Tom is a good boy. ;-)
 
As BJM said, there is no allergy test for food allergies. You just have to change the diet and try that changefor at least a month.
 
DB, how much are you feeding him at each meal? How many times does he eat per day? If he's puking almost immediately after eating then it could just be he needs smaller, more frequent meals. Is puking the only thing out of the ordinary, or are there any changes in behavior or energy?

Again, I don't think the liver or a food allergy is likely the problem. I think it's a coincidence that liver was on the label after he puked (All non-seafood Fancy Feast classic flavors have liver in them). A cat can't have an allergy to just liver. It would have to be an allergy to the animal where the liver came from.
 
Another thing to note: just because 2 things seem to be related, this does not necessarily mean that 1 causes the other. (In statistician lingo "correlation is not causation"). There could be a another factor causing both or it could just be random.

If you're willing to do some data collection, at each feeding, list the ingredients in the food fed (each ingredient gets its own column), with a date and time next to them. Also record if & when he vomits. Then see if a chart of food element by date/time overlaps vomiting by date/time and if there is a predictable lag between feeding and vomiting.
ie
date, feeding time 1, food element 1 - food element N, vomiting before next feeding (yes/no), vomiting time 1 .. vomiting time N
date, feeding time 2, food element 1 - food element N, vomiting before next feeding (yes/no), vomiting time 1 .. vomiting time N
and so on

Or send me the data & I'll run real stats on it. ;-)
 
Julia & Bandit said:
DB, how much are you feeding him at each meal? How many times does he eat per day? If he's puking almost immediately after eating then it could just be he needs smaller, more frequent meals. Is puking the only thing out of the ordinary, or are there any changes in behavior or energy?

Again, I don't think the liver or a food allergy is likely the problem. I think it's a coincidence that liver was on the label after he puked (All non-seafood Fancy Feast classic flavors have liver in them). A cat can't have an allergy to just liver. It would have to be an allergy to the animal where the liver came from.
Click to expand...

OK, maybe you are right. Friday pm and saturday am he vomited Wellness beef & salmon (1/4 can of a 5.5 oz can at each meal). Ing: beef, salmon, salmon broth, beef liver, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc (guar gum is in there).

When he vomited last, I am pretty sure his meal was wellness turkey, ing: turkey, chicken liver, chicken, chicken broth, carrots,natural chicken flavor, sweet potatoes, squash, zucchini, cranberries, blueberries, guar gum, etc.

He's been perfectly fine. I guess because he rarely gets sick, I have always attributed it to food. Since he's eating more of the canned now, he'll be more sensitive to it (if that is the right phrase). I fed him Innova today, and after checking Karen's list, I think it has grain in it (but no kind of liver). He really liked it, but if it's not grain free, forget it!

BJM, I'll try your idea (hopeing of course, he doesn't get sick).

He's sitting by the sliding glass door, as there is something outside cawing or something - it sounds more like a barking dog, but i know it's some kind of bird. He's licking his chops, as its about time for his last meal of the day (I feed him 4 meals a day of 1/4 of a 5.5 oz can, although if I give him FF, that's a little more). I'll go feed him at the enxt commercial - I am watching a special on the space shuttle program. The last flight is supposed to take off tomorrow morning. :cry:
 
Bandit puked up his dinner tonight because he ate too fast. He just does that once in a while. 1/4 of a can is not a lot of food, but if he's snarfing it down fast i wouldn't be surprised if that was the problem. If I catch Bandit eating too fast, I take his dish away for about 5 minutes, and then give it back. I left the room tonight though!

If he's a slow eater, then I would say that's not the issue. But the fact that he's doing it each time immediately after eating different types of food makes me think that it's the case. I think it's unlikely he's all of a sudden developed an intolerance for both Beef and chicken.
 
If you use a wide flat plate, you could smear the food across it, which might slow him down.

Alternatively, take a heavy mug and place it upside down in the plate center. (suggestion from my vet to prevent the scarf 'n' barf behavior)
 
I've heard that putting a golf ball in the bowl with the food makes the cat slow down when eating. I've never tried it but it sounds like an interesting idea.
 
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