Vetsulin dosing advice

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Critter Mom said:
How long after injection time is that, Lucy?

BTW, if you get any low numbers test with the Alphatrak for your vet instead of sticking to a set time in the cycle. That way she can't diss your data on grounds that a human meter isn't telling the real story. ;)
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Three hours, and I always use the Alphatrak numbers for the vet. She doesn't approve of using a human meter!
 
Squalliesmom said:
Three hours, and I always use the Alphatrak numbers for the vet. She doesn't approve of using a human meter!
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I was very much assuming this to be the case. The thing is your vet has asked you to give her results for a spot check pretty much at the same time in each cycle. To enable you to steward your relationship with your vet, it will very much strengthen your credibility with her if you can show her the low readings - Squallie's true nadirs - tested on equipment from which she is prepared to accept the results, and which she therefore has no grounds to dismiss out of hand.

Cats don't read vet manuals. They nadir when they nadir, not when the vet thinks they should.
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What he ate should be ok. Test at +4 and see if it slowed things down, I think.
 
Critter Mom said:
I was very much assuming this to be the case. The thing is your vet has asked you to give her results for a spot check pretty much at the same time in the cycle. To enable you to steward your relationship with your vet, it will very much strengthen your credibility with her if you can show her the low readings - Squallie's true nadirs - tested on equipment from which she is prepared to accept the results, and which she therefore has no grounds to dismiss out of hand.

Cats don't read vet manuals. They nadir when they nadir, not when the vet thinks they should.
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That's exactly what I'm doing. I 'm going to keep testing and calling with numbers and patterns until I get her attention or she tells me to find another vet!
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
What he ate should be ok. Test at +4 and see if it slowed things down, I think.
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Okay, thanks! This is making me crazy; this is the first time in three days that I have remembered to take my own daily medicine, I have been so focused on Squallie! I just worry all the time now that his BG is going to plunge too low!
 
This was my logic:
I think the 400+ you saw this morning was partially due to a bounce. He might have gone lower than you saw overnight. And looking at your spreadsheet, he has bounced before, but the numbers don't stay high for very long. So his bounces seem to clear quickly.

Dropping as far as he did by +3, it looks like if it was a bounce, it cleared really fast. So rather than you having to be in "react mode" at +4, I was hoping the food would stop him from dropping much further. You can use food to intervene before things get to the point where a crisis is happening.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Okay, thanks! This is making me crazy; this is the first time in three days that I have remembered to take my own daily medicine, I have been so focused on Squallie! I just worry all the time now that his BG is going to plunge too low!
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You really need to take care of yourself! You need to take care of YOU so you can take care of Squallie and the rest of your family. So stop, breathe, and remember your own meds.

Though we all worry about hypos, once you get a better grip on how this is all working, it will be easier.
 
Down to 75 with the Relion, 126 with Alphatrak at +4 hrs. Giving him a little Fancy Feast Pate to help offset a plunge.
 
Nice one. The Alphatrak 2 strips can be used with the grey Alphatrak meter but you need to set a different reference number on it.
 
I have to run out for a while but will try to check in on my phone. I think you're fine and you've been dealing with this scenario a lot recently, so you have it under control!

I'm also thinking even 4u is more than enough, and going forward, 2u or at most 3u every 12 hours makes sense.
 
stupid q inbound: What is an alphtatrak and why is it Differnt then a relion meter? Is it specifically for animals? Why does it read different? Why do you test with 2? (just curious).
 
BJM said:
If you've a smart phone with a calendar app, you might set timers to remind you to take your meds.
I call my phone my pocket memory!
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Lol, I've done this for years and have a tendency to ignore them when I'm busy, figuring I'll get to it as soon as I can, and of course then I promptly forget as my mind moves on to the next crisis!
 
@pevsfreedom -

The concentration of glucose in blood differs between animals and humans. Veterinary meters such as the Alphatrak are calibrated to suit animals and give a 'truer' measure (similar to lab analyzers) of, say, cat blood glucose than a human meter . Human meters give lower readings than veterinary meters, but they are consistently lower and therefore suitable for measuring cats' blood glucose levels provided a cat-specific human meter reference range is used. For example, you will see the hypo threshold quoted on this site as 50mg/dL (2.8mmol/L) on a human meter, and 68mg/dL (3.8mmol/L) for an Alphatrak.

The human meter test strips are much cheaper so it reduces the cost of managing the care of a diabetic cat, especially if one is endeavouring to keep one's cat quite tightly regulated and therefore testing frequently.

Lucy's using two meters because the human meter's cheaper for day to day testing and the vet wants to see test data from the Alphatrak.
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pevsfreedom said:
stupid q inbound: What is an alphtatrak and why is it Differnt then a relion meter? Is it specifically for animals? Why does it read different? Why do you test with 2? (just curious).
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The Alphatrak is specifically designed for veterinary use in dogs and cats. The values are a little different, but basically a meter is a meter, as long as you know the parameters of the numbers. I only use two because I got the Relion to test Squallie before my vet told me to, and she doesn't approve of using a human meter and testing from the ear. So I bought the Alphatrak from her to keep her happy, and she is familiar with those values rather than the Relion. I only use those numbers for her reference, really. I don't think 've explained this very well, I hope I haven't just added more confusion!
 
Critter Mom said:
@pevsfreedom -

The concentration of glucose in blood differs between animals and humans. Veterinary meters such as the Alphatrak are calibrated to suit animals and give a 'truer' measure of, say, cat blood glucose than a human meter. Human meters give lower readings than veterinary meters, but they are consistently lower and therefore suitable for measuring cats' blood glucose levels provided a cat-specific human meter reference range is used. For example, you will see the hypo threshold quoted on this site as 50mg/dL (2.8mmol/L) on a human meter, and 68mg/dL (3.8mmol/L) for an Alphatrak.

The human meter test strips are much cheaper so it reduces the cost of managing the care of a diabetic cat, especially if one is endeavouring to keep one's cat quite tightly regulated and therefore testing frequently.

Lucy's using two meters because the human meter's cheaper for day to day testing and the vet wants to see test data from the Alphatrak.
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Thank you, you explained it SO much better than I did, Lol!
 
Thanks both for the explanation. Nice looking #'s today, besides what I'm assuming is a amps bounce. Luna dropped under 60 yesterday (first time ever under 100) and I used the info I've been gathering in watching Squallie's adventures and got her to surf for a few hours!
 
Squallie is at 233 at +8. There's just no way giving him 4-4-4 at 8 hr intervals is ever going to be viable. I don't think he should be given ANY insulin at +8; I'll check him again at +12.
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
I agree. I would forget the whole every 8 hours option. I think your vet is completely wrong with that idea.
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Yes, and I'm really miffed that she never called me back today after I called in numbers. Here's how that went down: I called yesterday, office was closed, left msg w/BG #s; Tech/asst called me this AM and "scolded" me for not calling in #s, I set her straight on that count and gave her AMPS #s as well at that time, also said I'd call at +3 hrs with update; called w/update, she said vet wasn't there, she would have her call re: #s; waited, called back myself, asked for info on Alphatrak test strip purchase, basically got "scolded" again for wanting to buy them online, where they are cheaper; still no call-back from vet. I'm starting to wonder if the vet ever got the messages! I am more than a little annoyed; I used to like this tech, but now I am having serious issues with her! :-( :-(

Sorry for the rant, just had to get that out of my system and share with other ears (or eyes, as the case may be) who understand my frustration and irritation!
 
I'm glad you managed to get some rest, Lucy. I remember going through this last year. It's tough. :bighug:

Squalliesmom said:
Squallie is at 233 at +8. There's just no way giving him 4-4-4 at 8 hr intervals is ever going to be viable. I don't think he should be given ANY insulin at +8; I'll check him again at +12.
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I get the sense that you're still dealing with a bit of a dilemma between choosing whether to do what the vet is asking you to do, or instead to listen to what Squallie's body is telling you he needs.

I don't really stick my neck out when it comes to dosing, but I feel I need to this time. I've seen Squallie's data and I also think your vet is completely wrong about 8-8-8 dosing. I think your vet is completely wrong about a lot of things when it comes to treatment of feline diabetes. (Your vet has already given you dangerous dosing advice this week.)
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If I were you I would drop the alphatrak meter completely, along with the strips and stick with the relion meter, and go with dosing based off of peoples experience here along with your home testing #'s, and basically ditch the vet completely except for required testing & prescription type stuff.. it's your right as a consumer to shop around and this vet has given you horrible advice many times. I would visit and communicate with them as little as possible.
 
I showed my vet where I buy stuff and he said he's gonna start buying there because it's cheaper then where he gets the stuff! No scolding, in fact he said it's a great idea to shop around as FD is expensive and the more money I save the better I can take care of Luna. That's what a vet should say.
 
I know that driving to a closer vet is more convenient and easier on the wallet in terms of gas not to mention the time involved, but in your shoes I personally would be done and looking for another vet option. It may be farther away but it would be more than worth it to me to keep my furbaby in competent medical hands. You don't have to put up with this treatment by the tech or the "howling" bad directives and lack of response by this vet in just the past couple of days. What happens when there is something going on of a really serious nature that you can't handle?? Make no mistake about it, you are the one who saved Squallie this week not once but a few times. It's worth thinking about...
 
Critter Mom said:
I'm glad you managed to get some rest, Lucy. I remember going through this last year. It's tough. :bighug:



I get the sense that you're still dealing with a bit of a dilemma between choosing whether to do what the vet is asking you to do, or instead to listen to what Squallie's body is telling you he needs.

I don't really stick my neck out when it comes to dosing, but I feel I need to this time. I've seen Squallie's data and I also think your vet is completely wrong about 8-8-8 dosing. I think your vet is completely wrong about a lot of things when it comes to treatment of feline diabetes. (Your vet has already given you dangerous dosing advice this week.)
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Agreed!!!
 
Jan Radar said:
I know that driving to a closer vet is more convenient and easier on the wallet in terms of gas not to mention the time involved, but in your shoes I personally would be done and looking for another vet option. It may be farther away but it would be more than worth it to me to keep my furbaby in competent medical hands. You don't have to put up with this treatment by the tech or the "howling" bad directives and lack of response by this vet in just the past couple of days. What happens when there is something going on of a really serious nature that you can't handle?? Make no mistake about it, you are the one who saved Squallie this week not once but a few times. It's worth thinking about...
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I know, this has occurred to me before, as well. I just don't know. Even if I continue taking Squallie to her, what, as you say, would I do in a dire emergency?!? I don't think she is equipped to deal with it!
 
Squalliesmom said:
I know, this has occurred to me before, as well. I just don't know. Even if I continue taking Squallie to her, what, as you say, would I do in a dire emergency?!? I don't think she is equipped to deal with it!
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Personally I would use her for testing and prescriptions, and that's about it. I would also be very, very firm with her. Tell her you have done your research and you know what she needs. If you require routine care I'd see if there's ANYONE else to try, and I'd also look up a 24 hour emergency vet hospital if anything goes seriously wrong (which she probably would not be able to handle). I'm lucky in that I have like 45,000 vets in a 10 mile radius lol.
 
I had to go out for a bit so I'm a little late in dosing tonight. I just tested Squallie, his BG is 383. Just wondered what you all thought for his PM dose; not sure I want to give 4 units as he seems to have such a sharp drop in the first 3-4 hours. I gave 2 units last night and he was pretty high this AM, I wondered about maybe giving him 3 instead?
 
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