vets make my blood boil...

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scissorchik

scissorchik

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So I took Basil (who was diagnosed on Monday) to the vet for his blood curve. (I'm not up to snuff yet on doing testing at home-I'm getting better at giving needles though!)

She told me he was very good, his levels were evening off and that she is dropping his dose to .5 a day. (Lancet) I asked her how I was to measure that, since he was already at the lowest measure of the needle, and she told me to eyeball it. ?

I had brought her a can of Fancy Feast Classic Ckn and the food list that compared it to their Hills Pr MD and how their's had soy but otherwise they were the same. She told me that FF only had 11% protein, and that Basil will only go into remission and go OTJ if his body composition changed, and that to do that he needs to eat a food that has at least 40% protein. I told her he barely ate half a serving of their food, and she said 'well its better than what you're feeding him and if he gets hungry enough he'll eat it'.

I am a hairdresser and wanted to say to her 'whenever you want to stop using that cheap box dye on your hair and get a good quality colour service, come see me at my shop. THAT is how you are making me feel about feeding my cat."

UGH.

From what I can tell online, Fancy Feast has just the same amount of protein as Hills. I know its low carb, and since he likes it and they both will eat it I'd be crazy not to feed it to them.

My sister is visiting from the US next month, and I was thinking of getting her to pick me up a wack of FF. Roughly how much is a can in the US. I think I paid .77 teh other day.

Thank goodness I found you guys! I feel so much more comfortable knowing I can count on your help and encouragement. I've told all my clients how lucky I am to have support from people I barely know but who make it easier to sleep at night, knowing I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks!
 
Well, the nice thing is that she won't be there when you put down the food so you just don't have to share what you are feeding. Hills MD is 46% protein with 14% carbs. Most low carb FF (5-8% carbs) run between 42- 56% protein. I don't see much difference.... On sale I can get FF at 57 cents a can. Where are you? We do have members in Europe and Australia.

To be fair, most vets have one workshop on feline diabetes and see a few FD cats a year. They can't be experts on every disease for every species. And their nutritional classes are usually put on by Purina.....

Are you using U100 syringes with your Lantus? These syringes should help with the small doses: http://steverapaport.com/jock/SyringeFineGradations/
 
I'm just finally getting into the swing of things with the needle. I am so scard of hurting poor Bas that it takes me quite a few tries to give the needle. That being said, the amount that goes in is so small the needle is in and out in the blink of an eye.

As far as testing goes, I'm spending alot of time reading all your posts and watching videos, to get comfortable with it. I have to give Bas his shot while he eats, because he's very suspicious of what you're doing to him, and I'm not sure I'm ready to do the pricking and stuff. Given that its only been 4 days since we started, I am getting braver by the day and maybe next week will give it a try.

I'm in Canada, in a small town in Northern Ontario. We don't have a great amount of resources here for pet supplies etc. I am lucky though, that my sister is willing to send me stuff if needed that she can get in New York, or bring stuff up when she visits during the year.

The vet gave me a bag of Terumo U-100 3/10cc 29G x 1/2" syringes. When we started, we were at the last notch on the needle. Now I have to give him half of that. Its kind of scary, because its so little and when I give him the shot it feels like he's getting nothing.
 
There are syringes with 1/2unit markings; your vet should know that.
You don't need to eyeball it.... ask at your local pharmacy about syringes with 1/2 unit markings. I just get BD brand at Shopper's DrugMart, the same place I get my test strips and lancets.

And forget the expensive Hills food; don't bother with the foods pushed by the vet as it's poor ingredients and the carbs are too high.
Look over Binky's list and see if you can find some foods in your area with carbs below10%
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
 
Oh jeeze your vet sounds about like mine. Trying to push RX food down my throat. Plus they wanted me to buy DRY RX food. Hello! Wake up call please!

Anywho, I feed Fancy Feast too. I'd just tell them you aren't going to buy their food regardless of what they say. It's not their business what kind of food you want to feed. They couldn't even control you if you wanted to feed your cat the worst food ever. That's your right to do so, though I do hope you stick with the good stuff XP

Ear prickings are pretty daunting at first. I know. You might have to restrain him the first few times but they do get used to it. Plus give him a treat every time and he might just come running at test time! I get a treat called Vitakitty by Catswell. Don't know if they have it up there where you are but it's pretty much chicken jerky with some vitamins added. It's pretty bland too (Yes... I tasted it... I'm weird) but my cats love it! I know theres a list of other low carb options around here somewhere for treats. But I thought that might help :3

About syringes, do you have a Walmart nearby? They carry their store brand syringes (ReliOn) with half unit marks. Haha, at least I know you have Walmart in Canada. Short of sending my boy (He's in Ontario too) to do research at drug stores up there I can't provide any other possible locations to find them.
 
nothing Relion available in Canada I don't think; the Relion meter is OK and the strips are very cheap but not sold in Canada.
Just go to the pharmacy in Walmart or Shoppers or any other that has diabetic supplies and tell them you need syringes with 1/2 unit markings .... because your dosing could be 1/4unit changes, and it's better for Lantus to be consistent doses, you need to do better than just eyeballing it.

If your vet gives you a problem about the rx food, just say that it's way too expensive, BUT if your vet will give it to you free, then you will give it a try. And if your vet gives you free rx food, just give it to some stray cats as they may benefit from it.
 
There is nothing wrong with feeding fancy feast. I used to give it to my cats, until I needed to change to something lower in phosphorus. So, now instead of FF, I use Friskies. It's the same stuff - both made by Purina and while yes, overall it's less quality level food, it's still good food to give to the cats.

Return the prescription to the vet, get a refund and continue using the FF. At least with FF, you have lots of flavor options to choose from.
 
we use fancy feast and i can already tell the cats are healthier on it. our non-diabetic cat had what seemed to be irritable bowel syndrome - that's gone. her fur is perfect and soft and her tummy is obviously happy. they were on prescription dry food from the vet before - the civvie had "easy on your intestines" and punkin had "easy on your bladder." I suspect it's also helped punkin's bladder that the food is wet and i mix it with even more water.

i'd encourage you to bite the bullet and home test your kitter. you're not hurting Basil, you are helping him when he is unable to help himself. i totally didn't want to do it and there were a lot of tears in the first 2 weeks, but like anything, we've all learned it and it's not a big deal now. last week i even tested him while i was talking on the phone - so one handed! woo-hoo! i've got 3 kids and you have to make your kids do what is good for them and this is exactly the same thing. Basil will get over being mad at you for it, and he will be safer. there are lots of tricks to make it easier and people will give you suggestions over and over again til you can get it. really! your kitty is at risk of going hypo if you are giving him insulin and not testing him.
 
Hi Fellow Canadian and welcome to FDMB. You are in a terrific place.
Most vets will poopoo the Fancy Feast but that is all I feed my 4 kitties.
My Max is a diet controlled diabetic (off insulin 1 year ago today) and all he
has been eating since nov/09 is Ff.

Sadly the variety here in Canada is low, none of the beef flavours are available so maybe
you sister can bring some up, but be careful at the border because they don't allow
the beef through.
Walmart here sells a can for .68 and last week in New York they were .47 a can.
We also imported the Relion meter and strips from walmart US as they are very economical.
Maybe she can bring some for you too and stock up on a lot of strips.

Are you free handing your poking or using a lancet device?
Some people prefer one over the other. i could only use a lancet but a trick Iused was to
put a cotton ball on the inside of the ear which gave me support in poking and did not end up poking myself.
 
It may help your vet to know that the patent holder for Purina DM (Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM) tells her own patients to feed FF. There's nothing magic about the Rx foods - they are just low carb. They have no more protein than the grocery store ones, and the protein source is not good quality (too much chicken liver, for one thing!)

In Canada, I think that we actually have a good selection of grocery store brands that are low carb. The Compliments (Sobeys/IGA) and President's Choice (SuperStore, LobLaws) have canned foods that are good choices (especially in the FF/85g size cans). One big bonus is that the PC and Our Compliments cost less than FF, and several of them have better ingredients. There are several PC flavours that are low carb- like duck - which FF doesn't even carry.

Not all PC brands or OC brands are carb-free, but most are pretty low. (Anything under about 7% is my own personal guideline). And, of course, there are several of the "pate" variety Friskies (158 g size) that are extremely good, as well - Shoppers Drug Mart had them on sale last week at 3 cans for 99 cents.

My guys like the PC and the Our Compliments just as much as Fancy Feast. Janet has added a section of PC foods to her international food list if you want to check it out. The OC ones aren't on yet because we can't get the "as fed" analysis of the food. Also, WalMart makes a small tin (85g, same as FF) called "Special Kitty" and LOTS of those are also low carb, and cheaper. Janet has quite a few of those listed. Just make sure you are checking her non-US charts.

If they are not in Janet's list, the next best thing is to label read- avoid obvious grains (wheat, rice, corn) and other carbs (potatoes, peas) and things called "food starch".. which I assume is cornstarch, but the "starch" part says "stay away" to a sugarcat.
 
I agree with what everyone has already said about sticking with FF. Also, I think Karen is right on about President's Choice and Our Compliments. No Frills is owned by Loblaw and often have PC products at lower prices than Loblaws.

I do have a question about PC on the food charts. Are the values for the regular "PC" or is it "Finicky Cat" or whatever they call it? I am thinking about trying them because they have lower fat content and Oscar needs to lose some weight. Thanks!
 
Hello and welcome! I love your comment about your vet's hair! They make syringes with .5unit markings, I have a box here almost full of the u-100 29g 1/2inch with .5unit markings, I posted on the supply closet forum but if no one there needs them I will send them to you! (if you want) I also have a brand new meter and test strips if you want. Home testing is really important. It is definitely nerve racking but I found with Julius that he was so sensitive to insulin that if I had been dosing him without testing him I could have killed him! He had days when he got really really low! Once you get comfortable with home testing you can do your own curves ( I do) and save a lot of money at the vet's office. I used this board to help me get Julius OTJ, my vet was impressed! You will get the diet worked out, its good you have your sister to help you get food and send it! Some of us make our own food too. I started because I was tired of the racket by the vet I used to have over RX food only. If FF becomes hard to find or you can get a consistent supply you may want to consider making your own food, there are a ton of recipes out there, it will give you total control over what you feed and your carb to protein ratio. Good luck! If your interested in the syringes or meter let me know!
 
scissorchik said:
So I took Basil (who was diagnosed on Monday) to the vet for his blood curve. (I'm not up to snuff yet on doing testing at home-I'm getting better at giving needles though!)


From what I can tell online, Fancy Feast has just the same amount of protein as Hills. I know its low carb, and since he likes it and they both will eat it I'd be crazy not to feed it to them.

------------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, my cat is off insulin and I attribute it to the switch from dry food to nothing by canned FF pates.

As to shots: when I was giving insulin, I would set his food down, and he was so busy eating I could grab that neck skin, make that tent, and in went the shot. He never knew a thing.
Click to expand...
 
My vet also shoved Rx dry food down my throat and I fought her all the way.
In the end she wanted to know exactly what I did to get Bear into remission. We use FF wheat gluten free varieties and I pay about .52 a can. I don't think the vets we have seen have a good hold on nutrition when it comes to FD.
 
The percent of calories from protein or carbs cannot be found on the cat-food-can label.

You MUST use Binky's charts, or go through a complicated math calculation using
the DRY MATTER basis of the food.

Can labels state the 'not more than' or ' not less than' amounts of protein, carbs,
fat, etc BY WEIGHT. That's not the same as calories.

Your vet may be reading the label on the can, when she should be understanding the
difference between content of the can by WEIGHT and what it translates into
for % from calories by dry weight analysis.
 
Hi Basil and Scissorchik,
I live in Canada as well (Saskatchewan) and just the other day i was at Walmart and bought a case (24) of fancy feast, it was on sale for 0.50 cents a can.
 
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