Vet Today

[Kira & Max]

Just wanted to let everyone know Max is still low & stable on no insulin. We're going to the vet today at 3pm to discuss his numbers and the elevated liver test results noticed at diagnosis that the vet didn't want to deal with until we had the diabetes stable. I don't know what the numbers on that were, only that all three levels they test for were elevated.

Here's to hoping the vet doesn't yell at me for taking him off insulin :shock:

 

[MicheleS]

the vet won't. (at least he/she shouldn't!)

If Max was sick for a time, the liver enzymes could be a result of that. I would wait and recheck in 4-6 weeks. (assuming that he is acting fine and is eating/drinking, etc.)

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

It sounds like the liver enzymes were elevated BEFORE you started on the low carb diet and it's not just the BUN, but I thought I would share this post with you:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1921&p=17324&#p17324

Basically, liver enzymes [particularly BUN] can elevated slightly because of the elevated protein intake that generally comes with lowering the carbs in a cat's diet.

Also, IMHO the phosphorous in most food it way to high. I've debated this on this board before, but my bottom line is that if cats can deal with phosphorous levels in the "lower" range [0.5% DM - 0.7% DM] then by all means they should be getting it in that range [or as close to as possible]. Anyway... hope I'm not getting too off topic or the horse before the cart. But basically your food choices might become a little more limited [which isn't necessarily a bad thing]. Just be cautious of the prescription diets that your vet may recommend because the carb loads those diets might not be compatible with the DM.

 

[Kira & Max]

It sounds like the liver enzymes were elevated BEFORE you started on the low carb diet and it's not just the BUN, but I thought I would share this post with you:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1921&p=17324&#p17324

Basically, liver enzymes [particularly BUN] can elevated slightly because of the elevated protein intake that generally comes with lowering the carbs in a cat's diet.

Also, IMHO the phosphorous in most food it way to high. I've debated this on this board before, but my bottom line is that if cats can deal with phosphorous levels in the "lower" range [0.5% DM - 0.7% DM] then by all means they should be getting it in that range [or as close to as possible]. Anyway... hope I'm not getting too off topic or the horse before the cart. But basically your food choices might become a little more limited [which isn't necessarily a bad thing]. Just be cautious of the prescription diets that your vet may recommend because the carb loads those diets might not be compatible with the DM.

Yes, the liver levels were elevated pre-low carb food. At the time, he was eating Iams kibble. I'm looking into low phosphorus diets, too, for my oldest cat (currently on wet K/D), hoping to find one everyone can eat. Do you have a recommendation? I am steering clear of anything the vet says about food at this point, because what I've learned here has been so successful!

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Do you have a recommendation?

The link to "Home Cooked" in my signature is my "solution." I mix it 50-50 by weight with the Wellness. This may not be low enough though for you. However this is not the end of the story if prepping your own food is something that might interest you.

That recipe uses chicken breast. If one uses chicken thigh AND breast one can get the P level down even more since chicken thigh is lower in P than breast. And good news with the chicken thigh it brings up the fat content to something more average than low. I have been working on a recipe that might suit your needs, just depending on how low you want to take the P and if you think you can have rice bran [grain] or not.

Anyway, if the home prepped raw OR cooked interests you then I can help guide you more and would be happy to answer more questions. The http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com site is great, the owner is very helpful [she has one of the first cats to go OTJ from Levimir on this board] and I have custom nutrient calculators she has provided me with additional ingredients and functions that I can share with you.

 

[Kira & Max]

Do you have a recommendation?

The link to "Home Cooked" in my signature is my "solution." I mix it 50-50 by weight with the Wellness. This may not be low enough though for you. However this is not the end of the story if prepping your own food is something that might interest you.

That recipe uses chicken breast. If one uses chicken thigh AND breast one can get the P level down even more since chicken thigh is lower in P than breast. And good news with the chicken thigh it brings up the fat content to something more average than low. I have been working on a recipe that might suit your needs, just depending on how low you want to take the P and if you think you can have rice bran [grain] or not.

Anyway, if the home prepped raw OR cooked interests you then I can help guide you more and would be happy to answer more questions. The http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com site is great, the owner is very helpful [she has one of the first cats to go OTJ from Levimir on this board] and I have custom nutrient calculators she has provided me with additional ingredients and functions that I can share with you.

Thanks. I'm on info overload at the moment and still looking for a local supplier for Wellness. I've been looking at food for a couple days now and honestly am a little daunted by cooking for my cats, but I want long-lived healthy cats, so probably I will end up cooking. I'll check out your links this evening, when my brain has less racing around in it

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

In the interim the Wellness Turkey or Chicken [grain free] are not a horrible option. And there is the P binder option too. But my feeling on the P binder thing is that it a very imprecise way to handle the P. I understand about overload :shock: . I was a mess trying to figure everything out when all of our stuff first went down. I don't suggest being a mess. :smile:

 

[Kira & Max]

Remission is now vet-certified official! Or at least, diet-controlled remission :razz:

The vet was very surprised at our numbers, and concluded that the control had to have been achieved with diet. He wanted to know where I did all my reading, and I happened to have brought a FDMB flyer with me He didn't try to get Max on an rx diet at all, in fact, he told me to not switch away from what I was feeding. I don't think the doctor had any idea diet played such a huge part in diabetes.

I am so thankful for everything I've learned here! Bet Max is, too! party_cat

 

[Kira & Max]

In the interim the Wellness Turkey or Chicken [grain free] are not a horrible option. And there is the P binder option too. But my feeling on the P binder thing is that it a very imprecise way to handle the P. I understand about overload :shock: . I was a mess trying to figure everything out when all of our stuff first went down. I don't suggest being a mess. :smile:

I'm going to hunt up Wellness foods this week. I know a local place carries dog stuff, but not sure about cat varieties. Thanks for your info!

 

[Joanna & Bix (GA)]

I'm going to hunt up Wellness foods this week. I know a local place carries dog stuff, but not sure about cat varieties. Thanks for your info!

Glad things are going so well!

Did you already try the Wellness website? I think they may have a feature where you can look up stores in your area that carry it...

 

[Kira & Max]

Glad things are going so well!

Did you already try the Wellness website? I think they may have a feature where you can look up stores in your area that carry it...

I did--there was one local but they mostly only carry the dog side of things Looking at Pet Food Direct now.

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

$15 off $85 from PFD in supply closet:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5627

I looked earlier on retailmenot.com for coupons to PFD for you and did not see anything that looked promising. But you can check it too - maybe the expired ones aren't really expired?

I think you can buy online from petco.com - and they might have coupons too. And I'm sure there are others.

Sure would be nice if you could get Wellness to send you some samples before your bought and had a bunch shipped in. Or maybe Wellness would pay for the return shipping for any that did not make the cut? I've not dealt with the food by internet so I don't know the tricks there.

 

[Kira & Max]

$15 off $85 from PFD in supply closet:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5627

I looked earlier on retailmenot.com for coupons to PFD for you and did not see anything that looked promising. But you can check it too - maybe the expired ones aren't really expired?

I think you can buy online from petco.com - and they might have coupons too. And I'm sure there are others.

Sure would be nice if you could get Wellness to send you some samples before your bought and had a bunch shipped in. Or maybe Wellness would pay for the return shipping for any that did not make the cut? I've not dealt with the food by internet so I don't know the tricks there.

I can get some varieties to try the next time I'm in Ft. Worth--there's a Petco there. It's about thirty miles away, but out here, that's not as far as it sounds! But yeah, that's a lot of food to buy online if I don't know if they'll like it, and I bet it would be a pain to return, even if you could.

 

[Sherri & Stash (GA)]

I can get some varieties to try the next time I'm in Ft. Worth--there's a Petco there. It's about thirty miles away, but out here, that's not as far as it sounds!

HeeHeeHee... Here in West Texas we measure miles by drive time... 30 miles is really "oh, about 15 minutes away"... but in the Metroplex, 30 miles is more like 45 minutes!

 

[Kira & Max]

I can get some varieties to try the next time I'm in Ft. Worth--there's a Petco there. It's about thirty miles away, but out here, that's not as far as it sounds!

HeeHeeHee... Here in West Texas we measure miles by drive time... 30 miles is really "oh, about 15 minutes away"... but in the Metroplex, 30 miles is more like 45 minutes!

LOL, I know what you mean. Usually for me, a mile works out to a minute, from here to the west side of FW anyway. Anything east of that, 30 is more like 45! I've lived in several large cities and I absolutely do NOT miss it!

 

[Sherri & Stash (GA)]

Kira... are you clairvoyant?

I ask, because you've joined FDMB in the future...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[Kira & Max]

Kira... are you clairvoyant?

I ask, because you've joined FDMB in the future...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I know, and every day that date goes forward? The day I signed up it said March 3, and now it's the 18th? Weirdo glitch I guess

 

[Sherri & Stash (GA)]

Kira... are you clairvoyant?

I ask, because you've joined FDMB in the future...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I know, and every day that date goes forward? The day I signed up it said March 3, and now it's the 18th? Weirdo glitch I guess

What I'm seeing is the MEMBER SINCE: 01 MARCH 2010

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