Vet is telling me I can't use human BG testing stuff...

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LDB

LDB

Member Since 2013
I'm still pretty new here, and still have much to read. Today was Maui's follow-up visit to the vet. He was diagnosed a few weeks ago and they told me his blood sugar level was 352. Today, they tested him with the home kit they want me to buy (Alpha Trak 2) and his reading was 365. So...it went up :( The vet said he felt okay about him though because he is drinking and urinating less, and lost a bit of weight since switching to only canned Hill m/d 2 weeks ago. He wants me to do a glu curve with a home kit and call/email my findings in, and then he will make a determination about Maui's insulin dosage. As for now, I'm still doing the same - 1 unit Prozinc twice a day.

I've read enough of this board so far to know that you guys are using human glocuse meters for your testing, but the vet said the one they would order for me is specifically for cats, and that I can't use the human version. This kit is $130! So...please confirm for me that I can indeed test with a human home testing kit, and if there is maybe some conversions I need to make with the reading, or if I should just be able to use the results at face value. I'm confused. I trust my vet, but at the same time I think maybe he's not as informed about this as he could be.

Please help!
 
Cool another Maui on the board.My Maui is a girl and yours a boy!

First off there is no need to spend the $$$ and buy the alphatrak. It is very expensive, you can only get test strips from the vet and what happens when you run out and the office is closed? Your screwed.

90% of us here use a human meter, without issue. Relion brand (sold at walmart) is cheapest and you can always get strips when you need them.

The main difference between a human and animal meter is the high or low BG levels. You can use either meter and it's fine. But honestly no need to spend the over $200 for the meter plus the cost for the strips!

the only human meters we suggest not getting are the ones with TRU in the name (tru track, tru result) and freestyle meters (with butterfly strips) - people have had issues with them. so given the huge choice, we suggest something else - walmart brand relion, Bayer Contour, One Touch Ultra, etc.
 
1) The cost of the pet-specific test strips and monitors is out of most folks budgets. If you vet wants to donate supplies that is fine. Otherwise, you are going to use what you can afford!

2) Its like reading a thermometer in Celsius vs Fahrenheit
- both are correct, but freezing is 0 degrees Celsius and 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

3) There are established reference numbers for cats using human glucometers
- At the low end, where safety is important, the difference between these meter types is about 30 mg/dL.
- Ex you want the glucose to go no lower than 80 mg/dL on an AlphaTrak and no lower than 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer

4) The FDA allows ALL meters sold to be within 20% of what a lab would get. That means any test on any meter is somewhere between 80% to 120% of the value shown. This error range is wider the higher the glucose goes.

5) Once the glucose is higher than normal, its too high, and a specific number really doesn't help you much. You follow the insulin's protocol for dose adjustment.
 
Sorry...you guys are still a bit over my head here. I've never done the testing yet and still don't own a meter, so I've not read any of the materials that come with it, and don't know all the jargon like mg/DL yet. Once I get my meter though, I was told to test after morning food/insulin, then every 2 hours for a total of 6 results and send it to the vet.

What do I tell my vet when I do the tests and call it in if the numbers aren't what I'd see on the pet meter? Is there a conversion chart I should use to make the numbers look "correct" like they are from a pet meter?
 
LDB said:
... I was told to test after morning food/insulin, then every 2 hours for a total of 6 results and send it to the vet.

What do I tell my vet when I do the tests and call it in if the numbers aren't what I'd see on the pet meter? Is there a conversion chart I should use to make the numbers look "correct" like they are from a pet meter?
Click to expand...

Its test before you give insulin to make sure it is safe, then every 2 hours after the shot to see how the insulin works.

Use the numbers you have and give him the Celsius vs Fahrenheit analogy. He should understand that.
 
you give the numbers you see on your meter. that is all you need to give. don't worry about anything else.

just tell the vet that you will purchase a meter at the pharmacy that is more affordable. If they insist that you must have the alpha track, ask if they will donate it to you and give you all the strips you will ever need. I bet he will then be fine with you buying a human meter.

don't worry there is a lot of jargon to learn and just ask, we will help you.

if you scroll to the top of this section there is a post that reads -- Are you new and confused about our jargon? Read our Glossary
- this will help you to better understand the language

here is a link to that post

viewtopic.phhp?f=28&t=15885
 
BJM said:
Its test before you give insulin to make sure it is safe, then every 2 hours after the shot to see how the insulin works.

Use the numbers you have and give him the Celsius vs Fahrenheit analogy. He should understand that.
Click to expand...

OK...now I'm a bit concerned because the instructions his assistant wrote down for me specifically say the first test is 2 hours after eat/insulin, then every 2 hours for a total of 6.
 
You test before the shot of insulin to make sure the number is high enough to give the insulin in the first place. Always do this pre-shot test please. We use a 200 shoot/no shoot threshold here for those starting out.

If you vet is asking you to do a curve, that is every 2 hours over a 12 hour period, starting with the pre-shot test.
If your vet is asking you to do a mini-curve, that is every 3 hours over a 12 hour period, starting with the pre-shot test.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure what you vet is trying to determine by asking for tests 2 hours after the insulin for 6. Was that for a total of 6 hours or a total of 6 tests? Maybe you should call the vet office to clarify.

By the way, I had to censor myself in responding to your vets telling you human glucometers could not be used with pets. They certainly can and are used. Quite successfully I may add.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Was that for a total of 6 hours or a total of 6 tests?
Click to expand...

It is for 6 tests.

Deb & Wink said:
By the way, I had to censor myself in responding to your vets telling you human glucometers could not be used with pets. They certainly can and are used. Quite successfully I may add.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was a little surprised he said human ones can't be used. It sounds like from what you all are telling me that I can test with the human one and just let him know that this is the kind of tester I used so he'll understand the results. I'm assuming he will, anyway...
 
So 6 tests every 2 hours is a full curve. Your vet simply had you do the first test 2 hours after the shot. That would make your last test the PMPS test. The PMPS is the evening pre-shot test.

Yes, I was a little surprised he said human ones can't be used. It sounds like from what you all are telling me that I can test with the human one and just let him know that this is the kind of tester I used so he'll understand the results. I'm assuming he will, anyway...
Click to expand...
Yes, just let him know you prefer to use a human glucometer and he should be able to interpret the results just fine. Many vets, only use human glucometers on their own clients to test.
 
Yes, please test every cycle before food and insulin. We like to see a non food influenced number, so if you can remove the food 2 hours before the pre-shot tests, that is ideal.

The morning test is called the AMPS (AM or morning pre-shot).
The evening test is called the PMPS (PM or evening pre-shot).

Now, you can wait until next week to learn how to test from your vet, or you can look at these tips and tricks and videos

This article talks about the psychology of testing, making your cat more accepting of the process.

p.s. Thanks for the signature info. It will help us to help you better. Your cat Bruce is what we would refer to as a "civie" civilian or non-sugarcat.
 
Yes,
Our standard practice, primarily for safety, is to test before every shot. At some point, you will see a low number at shot time, and you will ask "is it okay to give insulin on this number?" In many cases it is okay, but sometimes, you're going to hear "no, skip the shot" or "you should stall without feeding, and then test again in 30 minutes". At first, until you have collected data for a bit, the "no shoot" number is 200 for new members. The more data you have at your disposal, the more likely it will be that you will be able to safely give insulin on a BG number under 200.

Our primary concern is the safety of your kitty. That's why we believe in "always test before giving insulin".
 
I wish I could remember the year when Abbott came out with the AT because I had my vet at the time get me one at his cost as soon as available to do some comparison meter testing. I came on FDMB in Fall of '98 and at that time all kitties were being tested with human meters. Heck, we even had to put the blood on the strip, no sipping at that time with the strips. Several years later Abbott wised up to people testing their cats and got on the bandwagon and designed their animal calibrated meter. For years cats did fine with human meters and they are still doing fine years after the AT came out. Way too expensive. I pay more than majority because I love my OneTouch Ultra, redesigned FastTake meter which I had first started out with. I still have the AT but won't use it. No need for that expense. I don't add or subtract numbers from what my meter reads to total in my mind what the AT would be. I go with my meters numbers.
 
Thanks all. I'm still not 100% clear on the difference though between human and cat meters (besides cost). If my cat tested at 365 on the cat one, would that number be different on a human one? And if so, is this number difference significant? I don't want any chance of confusion where my cat might end up with the wrong dosage of insulin.
 
Yes the numbers would be different....also the scale and range of what would be "danger zone" numbers and "good blood glucose" numbers are different.....

Just like the two sides of a ruler...the centimeter and inches side.....2 inches makes a lot of centimeters but they're both the same length.....

AlphaTrak gives one number, Human BG meter gives another number.....but it's the same measurement you just need to make sure you're looking at the right scale when assessing how well your kittie's doing.

Vets use AlphaTrak numbers....most of the people on this board, use human meter numbers (because it works just as well and is much cheaper)....so much of the advice in the pasted topics on the top of each board, use human meter numbers in advice for the BG (blood glucose) you'd like to have, and the BG that's
too low (hypo) that is dangerous etc.
If you choose the Alpha Trak.....every time you ask a question on this board....make sure you post in big bold letters that you're using the Alpha Trak so you get the correct advice.

Hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, keep asking....we'll get it straight :-D
 
For what it's worth, my VET uses a human meter in his clinic! He was using exactly the same human meter and strips that I bought in the beginning, the OneTouch Ultra.
 
This is all helpful. Thank you! The only thing I still keep getting hung up on is the fact that Maui's vet told me that I couldn't use a human meter and it concerns me that he is lacking knowledge of how to interpret my test results if I use a human meter. Maybe I'm just being a worrier. I guess I need to try and get in touch with him and see what he says about this so I can feel comfortable about this. It's a bit frustrating! I just want my kitty boy to have a healthy life.
 
Some glucose reference ranges for decision making using a human glucometer

< 40 mg/dL
- Treat as if HYPO

< 50 mg/dL
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50.
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned

50 - 130 mg/dL
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol
- Off insulin - normal numbers

> 150 mg/dL
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol

180 - 280 mg/dL
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine. Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL, especially if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and in danger of DKA and hepatic lipidosis
- Test for ketones; more than a trace, go to vet ASAP.
 
Just to add to what BJM wrote:

In a human meter 50 is considered the magic number for a dose reduction. With Alpha Trak, I believe that magic number is 70.

Once you choose a meter, human or animal, stick with the meter and do not try to compare it to any other meter. There is an allowable 20% or so variance between meters and if you try to do the what if and compare one meter to a "pretend" meter, you are only going to get frustrated and even more confused.

I did this to myself when I had two different brands of human meters that I was testing with and one gave me wildly different numbers than the other.

A very wise person told me - pick one meter and toss out the other. Don't get caught up in trying to compare meters. It doesn't work and just unnecessarily complicates things.

So, I did that - used One Touch Ultra (OTU) for Maui and when I ran out of strips and she was OTJ, I got some free Bayer Contours and have been using that ever since.

I also was told that I had to use the Alpha Trak by my former vet and I had to pay her $200 for the meter. This is also the same vet who forbade me from home testing. Go figure.

But because it was being pushed on me, I too questioned the validity of using that meter as opposed to a human one and even went so far as to call Abbott Labs and talk to a doctor there about the Alpha Trak. The only thing he could tell me is that animal blood is different from human blood and you must use the animal meter. When I pushed him on it and asked about their human meters that they make, he talked in circles, made no sense and I shared the conversations with this board that generated lots of discussion.

I decided to forgo the cost, try the human meter and if it didn't work, then I could always buy the AT.

I never did buy the AT and when I discussed the home testing and results with the new vet, she never suggested that I needed to get the AT meter at all.
 
Actually, with Lantus Tight Regulation, it depends on if the cat has been diabetic for over a year or for less, so you are both partly correct. This probably applies to the other insulins too.

Thus:
If diabetic less than a year, going below 50 mg/dL human glucometer and 80 mg/dL AlphaTrak/pet specific meter earns a dose reduction.
If diabetic more than a year, going below 40 mg/dL human glucometer and 70 mg/dL AlphaTrak/pet specific meter earns a dose reduction.
 
My 2 cents is that I use the Relion Micro. I have a One Touch Ultra that my endrocrinologist gave me, but the test strips are a bit more expensive. since Cedric is back on insulin, I stick with the Relion. Vet would prefer the One Touch, since the numbers would be closer to his Alpha Trak, but he understand and doesn't push. Frankly he's more happy with Cedric's number on Levemir than I am (I want him to drop some more) and I had to push him to write me the script!

Good luck!
 
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