Vedco Super B Complex in bag of fluids

[Nancy and Cody]

Has anyone used "Vedco Super B Complex" in daily sub Q fluids (Lactated Ringers)?
If so, how much have you injected into the 1000ml bag?
and how many mls fluids does your cat receive ? and for what?

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Hi Nancy, Yes, I use Vedco Super B Complex in Harley's LRS bag. Since the regular Vedco B Complex was off the market the last month or two, I had to get the Super B instead. I inject 0.25ml into the bag and Harley gets 100 ccs SID. Since the Super B is more concentrated than the regular B, you want to reduce the dose to avoid giving too much thiamine. Overdosing thiamine could cause anaphylactic shock and unless you have epinephrine handy, it'd be a race against time to get to an ER. I worked the dose out with my vet to make sure we were in the safe range. I'd suggest discussing Cody's dosage with your vet too if that's an option.

Harley has IBD, pancreatitis, chronic constipation/early megacolon and also early CRF so I asked my vet if we could supplement most of his B vitamins parenterally instead of orally and she agreed.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

The manufacturers say:
0.5 to 1 mL one or twice weekly, as needed.

http://www.vedco.com/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=26

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

The manufacturers say:
0.5 to 1 mL one or twice weekly, as needed.

http://www.vedco.com/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=26

Larry, I respectfully disagree with what the manufacturer's sheet says. It does not state that the 0.5 - 1 ml for cats is the dose for administration via dillution. They are assuming you are going to give 0.5 or 1 ml straight via an injection. But unlike Vitamin B12 shots, B complex stings when administered "straight" which is why it's often diluted in SubQ fluids to minimize the discomfort, or injected into the fluid pouch after SubQ fluid administration, instead.

One has to consider the method of administration, how often the doses will be given and how many mcg of each vitamin will be administered per dose. Just my $0.02.

 

[Nancy and Cody]

Hi Laura, Thanks for the info!
Cody gets the daily fluids for long term megacolon, but since he's acro and has an enlarged heart, I only give 50-75mls LRS /day. My vet told me to put a lot more in (3ml), but it didn't seem right/safe to me, so I only put .5ml into the bag.

SID is 1x/day, right? So if I give 50ml, this should be the same quantity of B as you are giving/day. How big is your kitty?

The last 3 weeks he has received 1 1/2ml of a syringe of ??? yellow b vit (that the vet gave me to try) in his fluids. Again, she told me to give 3 mls, but I only injected half into the bag. Cody has made a rather dramatic improvement lately, but I like to proceed with caution, and I felt like maybe the vet doesn't know about the difference of Super B vs what they are probably still using at the clinic. The office manager said he hasn't ordered it for them in a long time...

So Vedco Super B replaces the previous Vedco B complex? Interesting. the thiamine thing kinda freaks me out...

I read the .5-1ml suggestion for cats (1-2x/week) and decided since it takes Cody about 2 weeks to finish 1 bag, that .5ml seemed safe.

boy it stinks!

 

[Larry and Kitties]

The dose is still 0.5 to 1 ml weekly. If you give 500 ml of the LRS weekly then you would inject 1 to 2 ml into the bag.

The manufacturers say:
0.5 to 1 mL one or twice weekly, as needed.

http://www.vedco.com/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=26

Larry, I respectfully disagree with what the manufacturer's sheet says. It does not state that the 0.5 - 1 ml for cats is the dose for administration via dillution. They are assuming you are going to give 0.5 or 1 ml straight via an injection. But unlike Vitamin B12 shots, B complex stings when administered "straight" which is why it's often diluted in SubQ fluids to minimize the discomfort, or injected into the fluid pouch after SubQ fluid administration, instead.

One has to consider the method of administration, how often the doses will be given and how many mcg of each vitamin will be administered per dose. Just my $0.02.

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Hi Laura, Thanks for the info!
Cody gets the daily fluids for long term megacolon, but since he's acro and has an enlarged heart, I only give 50-75mls LRS /day. My vet told me to put a lot more in (3ml), but it didn't seem right/safe to me, so I only put .5ml into the bag.

SID is 1x/day, right? So if I give 50ml, this should be the same quantity of B as you are giving/day. How big is your kitty?

Hi Nancy & Cody, Sorry, yes, SID is once a day. I was typing too fast and took the lazy way out. Wow, our kitties seem to have some things in common, the megacolon, the FD, an enlarged heart. I had an echo done on Harley and fortunately his heart is normal, just enlarged, so we are able to keep up the 100 ccs daily. My boy is 12.5 pounds when he's eating well so if I can get anywhere from 75-100 ccs into him a day (depending on how much he squirms) we're doing good.

The last 3 weeks he has received 1 1/2ml of a syringe of ??? yellow b vit (that the vet gave me to try) in his fluids. Again, she told me to give 3 mls, but I only injected half into the bag. Cody has made a rather dramatic improvement lately, but I like to proceed with caution, and I felt like maybe the vet doesn't know about the difference of Super B vs what they are probably still using at the clinic. The office manager said he hasn't ordered it for them in a long time...

B complex is yellow so that's most likely what they gave you in the syringe. If they'd given you a syringe with pink/red liquid, it'd be a vitamin B12 only injection. Did your vet specifically mention which B complex they gave you in the 3 ml syringe? If not, and they haven't ordered it in a long time, then it might just be the regular B complex. The Super B is more concentrated and tends to look a darker yellow. And yes they both reek, but the Super B is the stinkier of the two.

Here's the vitamin breakdown from the Vedco Web site for both products.

Regular B Complex:
Each mL of sterile aqueous solution contains…
• Thiamine Hydrochloride – (B1) 12.5 mg
• Niacinamide – 12.5 mg
• Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6) – 5.0 mg
• d-Panthenol – 5.0 mg
• Riboflavin ( B2) – 2.0 mg
• Cyanocobalamin (B12) – 5.0 mcg
• with Citric Acid and Benzyl Alcohol 1.5% w/v as a preservative.

Super B complex:
Each mL of sterile aqueous solution contains…
• Thiamine Hydrochloride - 100 mg
• Riboflavin 5 (Sodium Phosphate USP) - 5 mg
• Pyridoxine Hydrochloride - 10 mg
• Niacinamide - 100 mg
• d-Panthenol - 10 mg
• Cyanocobalamin - 100 mcg
• with Citric Acid and Benzyl Alcohol 1.5% w/v as a preservative.

(Notice that the concentration of thiamine is 8 times higher in the Super B complex than in the regular B complex.)

The above numbers can be used to calculate how much vitamin is actually being put into the entire bag and then divide by the number of doses per bag to find out how much thiamine, how much niacinamide, how much cyanocobalamin, etc. is in each of Cody's administrations. Overall the B vitamins are very safe to use. they are water soluble and any excess is excreted out of the body. The only cautionary note is for the administration of thiamine - and that one is pretty freaky. I'm not a vet and don't know at what level of administration thiamine could cause a problem or which kitties are susceptible to it etc. which is why I worked out the dosage with my vet first so that the concentration of vitamins in Harley's 0.25ml dose of Super B complex basically approximated the level of supplementation per dose that he'd be getting had we used the regular B complex instead.

I read the .5-1ml suggestion for cats (1-2x/week) and decided since it takes Cody about 2 weeks to finish 1 bag, that .5ml seemed safe.

Yes, if you get 18-20 administrations from a 1000ml bag then 0.5 ml of the Super B complex is a safe dose. To answer your question from above (finally) it's basically the same dose as I'm using for Harley.

How is Cody getting his fluids? Does he cooperate?

Did your vet go over the care and storage of B vitamins, how they need to be kept away from light and heat, etc?

 

[Nancy and Cody]

8x higher- what on EARTH were they thinking???

I was too lazy to look that up so thank you!

I'm seriously tempted to alternate days of with and without vitamins.

Cody is almost like treating a stuffed animal that purrs. He is the easiest most laid back cat- he lets me do ANYTHING to him.... without as much as a meaow. He gets biweekly enemas, followed by a bath and hairdryer and he just lays there, like OK mom, I like to smell good. I'm very spoiled. I worked at a kennel for a year, but was sadly disappointed to find out other animals aren't like that lol. both of mine were so ....

I stuck my bottle in a an old black sock and stuck it in the back of the fridge drawer. I do not keep the fluids cold however...

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

8x higher- what on EARTH were they thinking???

But isn't it supposed to be SUPER B complex? :razz: :lol:

Cody is almost like treating a stuffed animal that purrs. He is the easiest most laid back cat- he lets me do ANYTHING to him.... without as much as a meaow. He gets biweekly enemas, followed by a bath and hairdryer and he just lays there, like OK mom, I like to smell good. I'm very spoiled. I worked at a kennel for a year, but was sadly disappointed to find out other animals aren't like that lol. both of mine were so ....

Oh I am sooooo jealous of you! Cody sounds like such a wonderful boy! And he sure lucked out to get the best mamabean ever. Harley is in a permanent bad mood due to 3 enemas at the vet and anyone, including me, who tries to groom him or even touch his rear end is in danger of losing their eyesight. And he's really the sweetest most loving kitty, but no touchy of the hiney.

stuck my bottle in a an old black sock and stuck it in the back of the fridge drawer. I do not keep the fluids cold however...

Great idea putting the bottle in a black sock - I need to try that. I just hide my bottle in the back of the kitchen cabinet that's crammed full of all the non-refrigerated kitty meds. I've heard that some people fridge the fluids and then some also warm them too to bring them up to kitty body temperature before serving. But I've done neither. Once the B's are injected in the bag the bag needs to be stored out of light and not be subjected to extremes in temperature. I hang my B-injected fluid bags from a coat hanger and cover with a button down black sweater and hang in the back of the closet. When it's time to serve, I just bring out the fluids and unbutton the sweater.

 

[Nancy and Cody]

Laura, just an update. I did open a new lactated ringers and alternated vitamin and non vitamin fluid days, but I feel like I'm losing that "perk up" that I saw when he got the first two bags that had 1.5ml of the old B complex.... so i'm going to "b vitamins fluids" only now, and hoping he perks up again. I'll let you know.

It really did make an incredible difference- I really thought he had days/weeks to live, he was getting so lethargic; and then after the b complex he seemed better than he had in months... I had been giving 1000-2500mcg methocobalamin daily, but subQ seemed dramatically different. Walking better etc

Hey thanks for the help!