Urinary problems - HELP PLEASE!

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Marlena

Marlena

Member Since 2015
Rocky has had urinary problems for some time and the last diagnosis was FIC (Feline Idiopathic Cystitis). He was treated with Metacam, Cystophan (glucosamine supplement to soothe his bladder) and antispasmodics.
He seemed better but everything came back.
The diagnosis was based on tests which were all normal so he has a scan, blood test, urinalysis and urine culture. There was some blood in his urine but I was told it was due to the procedure which is a needle aspiration.
He is very uncomfortable and started urinating on soft items at home (he does not use litter tray so I could never observe his urine. His urine is very bloody.
I'm going to take him to the vets today but I would like to know your experiences with problems like that to make sure I get the best from my vet.
 
Wow Marlena, i'm 'glad' you caught Rocky in the act so you know now whats going on. Hope that the vet visit today will help this problem asap!
 
(((Marlena))) I'm so sorry you have this continuing worry on top of everything else. I wish I had some suggestions for you but all I can say is that I've just Googled 'feline inappropriate urination' which produces lots of sites with all kinds of possible diagnoses... not only "medical" but hormonal, behavioural, even territory-related stress and separation anxiety... only you know if any of those are remotely possible. If Rocky is uncomfortable it doesn't sound as if it's a stress thing but there may be something of that nature coming into the mix... Hoping you can have a good chat with your vet and come up with something helpful.

Hugs
Diana x
 
Marlena said:
Rocky has had urinary problems for some time and the last diagnosis was FIC (Feline Idiopathic Cystitis). He was treated with Metacam, Cystophan (glucosamine supplement to soothe his bladder) and antispasmodics.
He seemed better but everything came back.
The diagnosis was based on tests which were all normal so he has a scan, blood test, urinalysis and urine culture. There was some blood in his urine but I was told it was due to the procedure which is a needle aspiration.
He is very uncomfortable and started urinating on soft items at home (he does not use litter tray so I could never observe his urine. His urine is very bloody.
I'm going to take him to the vets today but I would like to know your experiences with problems like that to make sure I get the best from my vet.
Click to expand...
Hi Marlena,
This is exactly what my cat, Teasel, did when he had flares of his idiopathic cystitis. He would urinate (blood-stained, sometimes quite a bit) outside the litter box, in my bathtub, and on soft things like towels, bedding, etc. My vet prescribed an antispasmodic, buprenorphine for pain and glucosamine once infection had been ruled out. He ate a special prescription diet for cats with urinary tract issues for a very long time. He's had many of these bouts, some worse than others. I know the signs very well now and do a "watch and wait" now to see if a bout needs a vet visit. Teasel's are likely stress-related and I don't necessarily know what the stressor is. I suspect any major disruption of his routine is one and he's certainly thrived on all the extra attention from me as I treat his diabetes. I think that's helped too. It's hard to pinpoint specific physical causes because for some cats I think it's more psychological if that makes sense. Teasel is a very sensitive cat in that respect and I think his physiology is overly responsive to stress (and that may be the underlying factor in him developing diabetes). My vet has said he has "Pandora Syndrome". Here's a link:
http://consciouscat.net/2015/05/04/does-your-cat-have-pandora-syndrome/
 
Kris, thank you so much.
So now I'm worried that we are giving him unnecessary antibiotics as his urine culture is sterile.
I do agree that stress possibly could make things worse but my personal opinion is that doctors sometimes can not find a cause (no test is 100% reliable) and then say it is psychological! I've seen it a lot in human medicine. It is even more difficult with animals as they can not tell us the symptoms which could give some more clues.
Anyway, your post is interesting and I will discuss that with my vet.
I'm struggling with getting antispasmodic, could you tell me which one you used?
 
Marlena said:
Kris, thank you so much.
So now I'm worried that we are giving him unnecessary antibiotics as his urine culture is sterile.
I do agree that stress possibly could make things worse but my personal opinion is that doctors sometimes can not find a cause (no test is 100% reliable) and then say it is psychological! I've seen it a lot in human medicine. It is even more difficult with animals as they can not tell us the symptoms which could give some more clues.
Anyway, your post is interesting and I will discuss that with my vet.
I'm struggling with getting antispasmodic, could you tell me which one you used?
Click to expand...

Hi Marlena,

Glad I could help, even a little. I agree that it's easy to write off problems as being only psychological but the area of mind-body human medicine is growing and Pandora Syndrome seems like the cat version of same. In humans it might be regarded as a disturbance of the HPA axis (hypothamus-pituitary-adrenal). Believe me, I'm no "woo woo" fuzzy thinker - very hard core science in fact by training and mind set.

The antispasmodic that Teasel was given is Prazosin HCl 1 mg. He was to be given a half tablet every 8 hours.
 
Kris, and I hope you like thinking outside the box!
Body - mind connection is very important but has been absent from allopathic medicine for a long time, now it is gaining popularity and hopefully we will soon see more interesting research done in this field of medicine.
Rocky has been badly affected by stress in his environment (I had no influence on that) some years ago (he was badly injured by another cat and had to be stitched up few times) and since than he is not the same and does not leave his garden where his personal body guard (Bailey - Rottweiler/GS cross) make sure that all the intruders are chased away!
Thanks for the name of antispasmodic as my vet wasn't that sure what to prescribe.
Marlena:cat:
 
Marlena said:
Kris, and I hope you like thinking outside the box!
Body - mind connection is very important but has been absent from allopathic medicine for a long time, now it is gaining popularity and hopefully we will soon see more interesting research done in this field of medicine.
Rocky has been badly affected by stress in his environment (I had no influence on that) some years ago (he was badly injured by another cat and had to be stitched up few times) and since than he is not the same and does not leave his garden where his personal body guard (Bailey - Rottweiler/GS cross) make sure that all the intruders are chased away!
Thanks for the name of antispasmodic as my vet wasn't that sure what to prescribe.
Marlena:cat:
Click to expand...

Hi Marlena,
Oh, I DO like thinking outside the box for sure! The best way is to blend hard science with things that are more speculative at our current level of knowledge. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. History proves that.
Regarding the antispasmodic: I'm in Canada and have no idea if the same meds are available in the UK but it doesn't hurt to ask.
 
Oh Kris, thank you so much, my vet gave us Prazosin, no problem.
Rocky is fantastic now, his BG is normal, he peed normally without blood and he seems happy!
What a difference from this morning.
He is on antibiotics so I guess I need to continue and I need to finish the course. And he likes bupre.
I hope we will have a good night
You sound like a clever person - I like that a lot!
Best regards,
Marlena :cat:
 
Marlena said:
Oh Kris, thank you so much, my vet gave us Prazosin, no problem.
Rocky is fantastic now, his BG is normal, he peed normally without blood and he seems happy!
What a difference from this morning.
He is on antibiotics so I guess I need to continue and I need to finish the course. And he likes bupre.
I hope we will have a good night
You sound like a clever person - I like that a lot!
Best regards,
Marlena :cat:
Click to expand...
I'm so pleased I was able to help and that Mr. Rocky is feeling better! My understanding of these bouts is that if there's no infection present, symptoms are treated and the episode allowed to run its course. They can be rather like a common cold in that respect - treated or not, the duration is about the same. The main thing to look out for is inability to urinate. Bloody urine in inappropriate places is unpleasant but you see him pee at least.
 
Critter Mom said:
Another thing to consider is d-mannose. Some useful info on following thread:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/suggestions-on-urinary-health-cat-foods.146240/

Recently I started using one of the new Feliway Friends diffuser alongside Saoirse's regular Feliway diffuser. The combo does seem to have a fairly calming and soothing effect on her. Might be worth a whirl for Rocky.


Mogs
.
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Mogs, how wonderful to see you here again, always helpful, always sharing your knowledge! Thank you.
Do happen to know if d-mannose is helpful even if there is no infection with E-coli?
I will try that as well but I have to say that half of Rocky's food is hmm.... food and the other half is supplements and medication. I'm really surprised that he actually eats it all!
And thanks for the tip about Feliway Friends - I haven't heard about this one.
Drop us a line privately please as we (Eliz and Diana as well) haven't heard from you for some time.
:bighug:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Marlena,
How is Rocky doing?
Click to expand...

Kris, Rocky seems to be well at the moment.
I don't give him bupre as he does not seem to be in pain. He was so funny after injection at the vets: he was a bit spooked out but kind of happy, very purry and active, maybe even unsettled. I think the vet gave him quite a hefty dose of bupre.
 
Marlena said:
Kris, Rocky seems to be well at the moment.
I don't give him bupre as he does not seem to be in pain. He was so funny after injection at the vets: he was a bit spooked out but kind of happy, very purry and active, maybe even unsettled. I think the vet gave him quite a hefty dose of bupre.
Click to expand...
I'm very happy to know he's doing well. Not surprising that the bupre made him a bit odd. It's an opioid narcotic I believe and some vets are reluctant to release it to owners. Some of these meds can have paradoxical effects - ie., make them more agitated rather than dopey. I hope he continues to do well.
 
Marlena, have you tried Slippery Elm Bark? I've read that it can help sooth the urinary tract. Might be worth checking out.
 
Marlena said:
Do happen to know if d-mannose is helpful even if there is no infection with E-coli?
Click to expand...
It's only supposed to be of benefit when there's an e. coli problem, Marlena. I don't know whether it's of benefit generally. I have read that some people give a small daily maintenance dose of d-mannose (presumably for prophylactic reasons) but I've not tried that myself so can't comment.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Mogs, thank you.
Yes, I thought that it is very good for E-coli infection but some people use it anyway even if there is no E-coli detected and report good results.
Another thing I'm considering is that no test is 100% accurate and sometimes the bacteria burrow themselves deeply into bladder's nooks and corners and it is impossible to detect it in urine culture. That's why some people and animals have good results with d-mannose even if diagnosis is idiopathic cystitis. So it is worth trying.
Rocky's severe symptoms indicated bacterial infection (in vet's opinion) so we're treating him with antibiotics first. Another indication of possible infection is pH of urine - his was 7 so just slightly too alkaline.
In the meantime Rocky is feeling well and is on the mend.:D
Marlena:bighug::cat::bighug:
 
I'd be very interested to hear about how Rocky responds to the d-mannose, Marlena; I hope it helps him. I'm very glad for both of you to hear that he's feeling much better now. :)

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Rocky's BG is higher tonight - 11.
He seems to be all right although very quiet and he continues licking himself under his tail, lower abdomen and thighs.
I don't give him painkillers at the moment because it is not obvious that he is in pain but something is not right.
I'm very frustrated.:(
 
Marlena said:
Rocky's BG is higher tonight - 11.
He seems to be all right although very quiet and he continues licking himself under his tail, lower abdomen and thighs.
I don't give him painkillers at the moment because it is not obvious that he is in pain but something is not right.
I'm very frustrated.:(
Click to expand...
It might be better to go with the pain relief, Marlena. Pain causes stress which in turn could trigger cystitis/exacerbate bladder/urinary tract inflammation. Pain meds are key to breaking that cycle. If it is still UTI/cystitis then lack of pain meds could prolong the episode.

I do hope Rocky feels better - and stays better - very soon. Sending another consignment of hugs for you both:

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Hi Marlena,
I agree that Rocky might need pain meds. One sign that Teasel shows when an attack is brewing or when he's uncomfortable during an attack is restlessness and vocalization. He also visits the litter box frequently and does a lot of licking of his nether regions. His episodes can last 2+ weeks sometimes and will wax and wane within that time frame. It's rarely onset, crescendo, resolution with him.
 
Hi....
I just wanted let you know I have used D Mannose when there was "no reason" for a urinary issue and for the majority of cats (mostly rescues) it has helped and it won't hurt....
If you are open to it I know a wonderful woman named Meg who makes flower essences....
If your interested here is the link -- I met her in Katrina when we were rescuing the animals and I have used these with my own pets as well.
She can help you with which ones to use and in what order--good luck!
http://www.blackwingfarms.com
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
I just wanted let you know I have used D Mannose when there was "no reason" for a urinary issue and for the majority of cats (mostly rescues) it has helped and it won't hurt....
Click to expand...
What positive signs did you observe about how the treatment benefitted them, Jayla?


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
What positive signs did you observe about how the treatment benefitted them, Jayla?


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
The cats that drank the water with the D-Mannose in it seemed to become less consumed with licking and other behaviors indicative of a urinary issue-(frequent trips etc...) also.... (some cats were given capsules as they seemed worse off with symptoms)
After we saw improvement it was added to most of the water dishes.

From seeing the results it seems to me that the D-Mannose eliminates more than e coli and helps clear the urinary tract system of other bacteria that may be brewing. This was my observation and I have no proof-some cats were already on AB but many were not.

I am not a fan of the cranberry treatments -
 
Hi Marlena
This may be superfluous to requirements, but I've just been reading some useful info about feline urinary issues on www.catinfo.org - happened to see a post on the FD page on FB (I joined the group a couple of months ago out of curiosity) and a member there was asking about sterile cystitis.

I'm sorry I can't link the actual page for you here (never worked out how to do that on an iPad) and you may have read it anyway, but if you'd like to see it give me a shout and we can work it out!!

Hope Simon is better now, by the way?

Hugs
Diana

PS just clicked on the link above - if you do that it takes you to the home page and there's a menu on the right hand side which you can click on for 'urinary issues' - that's the page I was referring to.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Hi Marlena
This may be superfluous to requirements, but I've just been reading some useful info about feline urinary issues on www.catinfo.org - happened to see a post on the FD page on FB (I joined the group a couple of months ago out of curiosity) and a member there was asking about sterile cystitis.

I'm sorry I can't link the actual page for you here (never worked out how to do that on an iPad) and you may have read it anyway, but if you'd like to see it give me a shout and we can work it out!!

Hope Simon is better now, by the way?

Hugs
Diana

PS just clicked on the link above - if you do that it takes you to the home page and there's a menu on the right hand side which you can click on for 'urinary issues' - that's the page I was referring to.
Click to expand...
Diana, Simon is better, many thanks.
Thank you for the link - it's very good.
I have few points: Dr Pierson is very strong advocate of lots of water for cats which I do so extra water in Rocky's raw food which is already 75% water, I make sure he drinks a lot by giving him bone broth between meals.
Regarding testing for bacteria in urine - it looks like it was not done properly by my vet because results were given too quickly. But the choice of antibiotic looks good if it was a bacterial infection but we can not be sure. If it wasn't a bacterial infection then giving antibiotics is wrong but I have to finish the course. I have a feeling that it was not bacterial as other test did not show inflammation either. It is difficult to argue with the vet as you are under enormous stress and your kitty is suffering and you want to make them better as soon as possible. Also the vet said that diabetic cats are very prone to UTIs (I stand for infection here), more than healthy cats so I agreed to antibiotics. Rocky is better but his BG is a bit higher then it should be.
I think we will have to repeat the tests after treatment. That's best I can come up with.
Thanks for being here for us.
Hugs to everybody.
 
Hi Marlena,

I was revisiting a site for info on using slippery elm bark (SEB) for digestive upsets (Saoirse has diarrhoea for the last few days) and I thought the article might be helpful to you. It includes info on the benefits of SEB for treating urinary tract issues so there might be something there to help Rocky.

I hope that Simon, Rocky and yourself are doing OK.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Mogs, thank you so much.
I have used SEB recently for Rocky's upset stomach due to antibiotics (I think).
Now I'm going to use d-mannose and see how things are.
Rocky just finished antibiotics and he seems to be well (anti jinx)!
I'm also using Cystophan for his bladder.

We are ok, Simon is recovering slowly.
I'm "enjoying" my new job, at least I'm not freckling out about Rocky's BG when at work because Simon is at home and can monitor him. Rocky is having better response to insulin at the moment and I think we're pretty safe as the insulin is a bit old and might be not as strong as it used to be. I'm hoping that I will not need another bottle when this one is finished (soon). The vet might possibly want to change him to ProZinc, I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
I'm going to test Rocky at +3 after injection to see what his BG is like after food. Do you happen to know what is an acceptable level of increase in BG after food? I remember one member suggested that Rocky still needed insulin after his BG after food was too high when others were saying that I should stop insulin. I decided to carry on with injections as he was going too high without. If he is improving the way he is now I feel positive.

I wonder how things are with Saoirse at the moment. You said she has diarrhoea. Do you know the reason? I always like to use probiotics in situations like that. Did you see my post about probiotics for kitties some time ago?
Sending lots of hugs and healing vines for you and your children :bighug::):bighug:
 
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