Updated Signature Chart-

Leigh B

Leigh B

Member
Hello! I finally updated my chart for Murphy.
A few notes: He was on Lantus until 11/5/18- from that date forward he's on Prozinc. ALSO, until this point, I was feeding him Purina DM. I had both wet and dry food in that brand. He was free feeding with the dry, and I was feeding wet when I dosed him. It was not until my second vet pointed out that I need to be sure to AVOID free feeding and stick to wet food that I stopped that. So, some of the higher numbers before 11/5/18 were probably due to the fact he was eating throughout the day. Now, because I have another cat to feed and the Purina DM is $55/case for cans that last about a week in my house, I have switched both of my cats to Friskies Classic Pate foods. I have followed the food recommendation chart(s) referred to here and by my vet for good diabetes food options. I DO switch up the flavors, but am sure to stick with the same type of food to keep the levels from jumping around.
I have been tracking his numbers longer than October, but this gives a good snapshot. My vet recommended that I not test too much when we know he's in a good range, so I had stopped the BG monitoring for a while. That's why I have odd lapses in dates.
During the time indicated in my signature chart, I have had 2 curves done at the vet, and we have changed his dose both times. I do not have the exact date for the most recent one, but it was during the lapse in time earlier this month (Dec)
ALSO:
In a different post, I have noted that I have had 2 blood panels run this year (one in May and one in October) from 2 different vets to see if there's another underlying factor to Murphy's problems. They both said they did not see any health issues other than the diabetes.
I am so discouraged that I have not been able to get my boy stable. His neuropathy is much worse. He's eating less (also not drinking water when his BG is elevated...not sure if that is normal), and is more lethargic.
This message board is such a great place! It is nice to not feel so alone and have others give advice/comfort when they know what I am going through.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!
 
It would be very helpful to us if you set up your signature. Here's how:
  • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
  • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
  • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
Neuropathy usually responds well to methylcobalamin supplementation (Zobaline is a popular one that can be ordered online) and better control of BG numbers. It can take time for improvements to be seen. We can help you with the latter. :)
 
Not testing before giving insulin EVERY single time is very dangerous (and most vets will tell you not to test every time. ) There has been MANY times during the years that if I had not tested... I would have killed my cat. Im sorry to be so forward, but its very important.
Its great that you have switched to canned pate, ALL dry food is higher in carbs. Since you have switched, its even more important to test before any insulin is giving.

one of my cats had neuropathy & it went away using Zobaline, and switching to pate food, found out he had diabetes w neuropathy in Oct. STOPPED listening to my vet and followed the advice of everyone here and he was in full remission by Dec
 
Thanks everyone! I have updated his chart. His neuropathy is significantly worse. He can't take more than 2-3 steps without stopping. I'm having to put him in the litter box. I know he needs to exercise his legs, but he just sits there. It is breaking my heart. I am doing Zobaline twice a day. It is not getting any better (have been using it for 3+weeks).
His eyes are sunken and he is extremely lethargic. With that and the neuropathy, I am starting to mentally prepare for the worst. I do not want him suffering. I tested his ketones for the first time (home testing...vet has tested before) and it showed "trace," which was a relief. I was sure it would be high. He's not eating much, and is drinking water only now and then when I put it in front of him.
 
Help! I just came home and his white eyelid is showing in both eyes. I noticed it a bit yesterday, but thought he was just tired.
I am going to the vet this afternoon....
Any ideas of what is causing this?
 
That third eyelid usually means they're feeling sick. All the symptoms you describe (lethargy, neuropathic gait) are likely from being in high BG numbers for a long time. I hope your vet can help. What he needs is enough insulin to get his numbers down first and foremost and a B12 supplement second. He's still a young cat and should have the reserves to recover. Is he eating? THat's very important.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
That third eyelid usually means they're feeling sick. All the symptoms you describe (lethargy, neuropathic gait) are likely from being in high BG numbers for a long time. I hope your vet can help. What he needs is enough insulin to get his numbers down first and foremost and a B12 supplement second. He's still a young cat and should have the reserves to recover. Is he eating? THat's very important.
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He's eating a little. I give him the Zobaline in a Friskies Chicken treat, it is 100% flaked chicken. He gobbles it up. He eats a little of his Friskies Classic Pate food- not much, but enough that I feel comfortable giving his dose. I may mix some of the chicken in with his pate for his next dose, along with some water. I've been home with him today. Sitting in the floor and putting water in front of him. He drinks a little at a time when I do that. Seems to have his eyes looking a little better- at least for now. About to get 6 hour post dose BG in about an hour, and will have a better picture of what his levels are.
I can't thank you guys enough for the support. It is such an emotional roller coaster. One minute, I am thinking I am losing him and preparing to say goodbye. The next, he seems to be feeling better and I hold out hope that I can get him to a good place.
Whew! :-/
 
Leigh B said:
He's eating a little. I give him the Zobaline in a Friskies Chicken treat, it is 100% flaked chicken. He gobbles it up. He eats a little of his Friskies Classic Pate food- not much, but enough that I feel comfortable giving his dose. I may mix some of the chicken in with his pate for his next dose, along with some water. I've been home with him today. Sitting in the floor and putting water in front of him. He drinks a little at a time when I do that. Seems to have his eyes looking a little better- at least for now. About to get 6 hour post dose BG in about an hour, and will have a better picture of what his levels are.
I can't thank you guys enough for the support. It is such an emotional roller coaster. One minute, I am thinking I am losing him and preparing to say goodbye. The next, he seems to be feeling better and I hold out hope that I can get him to a good place.
Whew! :-/
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Dehydration can cause the "sunken eyes" look. Does his scruff skin rebound quickly when you pull it up? It's slow if dehydrated. Do his gums feel tacky? They do if dehydrated. Your vet might want to give IV fluids and if subQ fluids at home are prescribed it's easier than you think.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Dehydration can cause the "sunken eyes" look. Does his scruff skin rebound quickly when you pull it up? It's slow if dehydrated. Do his gums feel tacky? They do if dehydrated. Your vet might want to give IV fluids and if subQ fluids at home are prescribed it's easier than you think.
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Hey there....just got a 162 pre-dose. Was planning on gugivi 3 units, but wondering if I should do 2.5? Don't want to go too low. He's in a good range right now. About to give zobaline and dinner with shot....advice on dose????? Thanks!!
 
Leigh B said:
Hey there....just got a 162 pre-dose. Was planning on gugivi 3 units, but wondering if I should do 2.5? Don't want to go too low. He's in a good range right now. About to give zobaline and dinner with shot....advice on dose????? Thanks!!
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I wouldn't give the full 3 u on a 162 because you don't have enough data to know how he might respond. You could wait about 30 minutes without feeding and test again to see if he's around the same or rising. That can be a guide to dosing. If you can't wait or have fed him, try 2.5 u but make sure you get a +2 test this evening. That can help in predicting what might happen.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I wouldn't give the full 3 u on a 162 because you don't have enough data to know how he might respond. You could wait about 30 minutes without feeding and test again to see if he's around the same or rising. That can be a guide to dosing. If you can't wait or have fed him, try 2.5 u but make sure you get a +2 test this evening. That can help in predicting what might happen.
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REVISION! That was a 162 on an AT meter. I'd drop the dose to 2 u. Please add "AlphaTrak meter" to your grey signature text. We look for that there. I found out from looking at the heading on your SS.
 
I did not take him because his eyes started to clear up as he drank more water. Then, he got a good BG number. My vet is on standby and luckily I can be with Murph a good bit over the next few days and watch him closely.
If his eyes are not better or or back to where they were in the morning I'm going to take him in.
I can't tell you what a relief it is to have you guys helping
 
Thank you. I will give him 2 and and see what happens. That is why my chart is so wacky. Trying to keep from giving him too much.
 
Leigh B said:
Thank you. I will give him 2 and and see what happens. That is why my chart is so wacky. Trying to keep from giving him too much.
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The 2 u dose is likely safe but there's more guesswork until you build up your SS data base. We rely very heavily on the trends and patterns we see there to be able to give good advice. Without that it's more of a shot in the dark.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The 2 u dose is likely safe but there's more guesswork until you build up your SS data base. We rely very heavily on the trends and patterns we see there to be able to give good advice. Without that it's more of a shot in the dark.
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Thanks so much. I'd expect that he'd have been ok on 2.5, because he had a good dinner, but I stuck with 2 to be safe. I'll check in 2 hours and again before am dose. Thanks again for the help....and quick response. Love the low BG numbers, but want to keep him in a good range.
Gonna stick to this thread still learning the site :-)
 
Ok. Just tested him after the 2 units I gave him with food 2 hours ago. He's at 304. I feel discouraged, but am hoping that's not so bad b/c he ate??
Obviously, I'll test him first thing in the am.
Poor boy is laying in the litter box right now. This is breaking my heart. He can hardly walk anymore.
Thanks again for the help
 
The 304 could be a food spike and/or a rebound from lower blues. Try not to worry. This will take time. You could try 2.5 u AM and PM for a few days to see how that works.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The 304 could be a food spike and/or a rebound from lower blues. Try not to worry. This will take time. You could try 2.5 u AM and PM for a few days to see how that works.
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Thanks. If you look at the last week and a half on his SS, he's responded positively when he's gotten a 3 unit dose after high BG numbers. That's why I have gone back and forth between 2.5 and 3 in the morning. Wondering if he's more likely to maintain with 3 units twice a day. He was doing so well with 2.5 for a while that I stopped testing him. I could tell he was not feeling well after a while & I checked him. That's the 12/22/18 date shown. Called the vet & they recommended that I try 3 units.
I'm certainly going to be careful and watch closely.
May go with 3 in the am if he's really high & just try to test every few hours.
 
you said you are giving him flaked food? he should be on pate only, the other is high in carbs
 
No, all friskies pate for food. I use the fancy feast pure chicken treats, just a bite, to give his Zobaline. (Example here... https://www.chewy.com/fancy-feast-purely-natural-hand/dp/130369?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Fancy Feast&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjZLhBRCAARIsAFHWpbGxVaweA3c0PKcUoXKHUS3-xEu3STbZeD4-6HJBBr72y1UtHCshSUQaAlqbEALw_wcB)
I'm very careful to avoid carbs. Studied the charts and recommendations on this site.
He's becoming less interested in the friskies pates, so I may have to get creative in the near future.
I WAS doing Purina wet DM, but I have 2 cats and that is just too expensive for me feeding 2 at $56/case!
 
Leigh B said:
Thanks. If you look at the last week and a half on his SS, he's responded positively when he's gotten a 3 unit dose after high BG numbers. That's why I have gone back and forth between 2.5 and 3 in the morning. Wondering if he's more likely to maintain with 3 units twice a day. He was doing so well with 2.5 for a while that I stopped testing him. I could tell he was not feeling well after a while & I checked him. That's the 12/22/18 date shown. Called the vet & they recommended that I try 3 units.
I'm certainly going to be careful and watch closely.
May go with 3 in the am if he's really high & just try to test every few hours.
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The pre shot BG tests are basically to tell you if it’s safe to give the planned dose. It’s the low numbers in the middle of the cycle that are much more important in making dose decisions. Pre shot numbers are given more consideration if they’re lower than normal. Then, you *might* lower the dose in response to a PS. The dose is rarely raised in response to a high pre shot BG. It would be raised if there was a trend over a few days at a dose of BG not dropping below the mid 100s or so.
 
Good morning! I just tested him, and he's at 454. Planning to give him 3 units with meal. Do you agree with that?
His eyes look MUCH better this morning and he's moving around better. Fingers crossed that I'm moving closer...
 
Hi Leigh. I believe Kris suggested you stay at 2.5u for a few cycles and let him stabilize.
 
Djamila said:
Hi Leigh. I believe Kris suggested you stay at 2.5u for a few cycles and let him stabilize.
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Thanks...yes...Hmm...just re-read the post. I'll do 2.5, and see what the day looks like. His numbers were so good yesterday after his higher dose. It is hard to not want to do that again. Although, that caused me to have to drop his PM dose.
I've been doing 2.5 twice a day for the lapse in his chart. Then, when he started feeling bad and having bad numbers, I changed it, and he responded well.
I'll go back to 2.5 and watch closely. Like I said, my vet told me to do a curve every now and then with them and not check him every day. He was stable, so I stopped monitoring. Maybe he was doing better than I thought and just had a few bad days???
ARG!
 
It's REALLY tempting to want to chase good numbers with frequent dose changes but it can backfire. It contributes to greater volatility in bouncy cats and can prevent you from seeing the "true" effect of a dose because things are obscured by the ups and downs. So much patience is needed in the FD game. It takes most of us a very long time to get that.

Try hard to quell your itchy trigger finger and stay at 2.5 u today and tomorrow. Get at least one test in the +4 to +7 time period and/or a before bed test both days. Get more if possible. A scattering of tests over many days is far more useful in seeing what his responses are than a curve done on one day. A useful analogy is that of a jigsaw puzzle: if you place many pieces over many areas of the puzzle (scattered BG tests over several days) you come to see the image better than if you just work along one edge (a curve done on a given day every week or two).
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It's REALLY tempting to want to chase good numbers with frequent dose changes but it can backfire. It contributes to greater volatility in bouncy cats and can prevent you from seeing the "true" effect of a dose because things are obscured by the ups and downs. So much patience is needed in the FD game. It takes most of us a very long time to get that.

Try hard to quell your itchy trigger finger and stay at 2.5 u today and tomorrow. Get at least one test in the +4 to +7 time period and/or a before bed test both days. Get more if possible. A scattering of tests over many days is far more useful in seeing what his responses are than a curve done on one day. A useful analogy is that of a jigsaw puzzle: if you place many pieces over many areas of the puzzle (scattered BG tests over several days) you come to see the image better than if you just work along one edge (a curve done on a given day every week or two).
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Thank you again! One of the things that you told me that stands out the most is the information about the pre dose BG. His seems to always be fairly High first thing in the morning and I freak out. I will start paying more attention to numbers throughout the day as indicators.
I have been assuming that since he has been asleep and has not eaten yet, that first reading in the morning is a precise indicator of where his levels are.
 
Ok...just tested at about 6 post dose. He's at 432 :-(
I'm disappointed. Thoughts???
He's just been sleeping all day...no eating or anything.
 
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I’m confused. Your post says two hours post-shot, but your spreadsheet shows it at +6.....???
 
Djamila said:
I’m confused. Your post says two hours post-shot, but your spreadsheet shows it at +6.....???
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Sorry. I'm so stressed I am not making sense. It was 6 hours/ 15 minutes. I was looking at the time when I was typing. updated the post, too
 
Deep breaths. Let’s see what tonight brings. It’s often said around here that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
 
I know in humans that when they have high BG that walking can help bring it down. So when you say “ he has been sleeping but his numbers go up “. ( not your exact words) I’m hoping that telling you this will help you understand that less activity doesn’t necessarily mean that the numbers should be lower.
I completely understand your frustration . I still get frustrated and freak out when skittles has high numbers and I been dealing w this for years. Skittles is my second diabetic cat.
 
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Just tested pre-dose. 452
Not a good day in my opinion. Will do 2.5 again to see how it looks, but he seems to respond positively after a 3 unit dose??? Will keep up the 2.5 for a few days and will not change without your help/advice....trying to stay patient :-/
Thanks to listening to and understanding my frustration. Been doing this since May. My boy has been 300+ since May.
Tired of seeing these numbers. I know I'm learning more as I go along, and am thankful to have found you guys...
:-(
 
Give him 2.5 u tonight and tomorrow AM then increase to 2.75 u (eyeballed) tomorrow night numbers permitting. Changing dose after three cycles is as quickly as we'd recommend. Get a before bed test tonight if you can.

Those reds are very likely rebound from the lower blues yesterday. Patience is key.
 
my baby rebounds very badly, it stopped when I LOWERED his dose.... just like you are doing right now from the higher dose he was on before you lowered to 2.5
I know you are stressed and scared, but following the advice I received here I got 2 cats into remission
 
sherrib said:
my baby rebounds very badly, it stopped when I LOWERED his dose.... just like you are doing right now from the higher dose he was on before you lowered to 2.5
I know you are stressed and scared, but following the advice I received here I got 2 cats into remission
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Thanks so much. Going to bed teary eyed at 400. So ready for a healthy boy. He's actually seemed in better spirits today, though....thankful for that.
I KNOW he'll have high numbers in the morning. I'll see...and plan 2.5 regardless...but want him out of "renal phase" as my vet put it...under 300...
It's not been a good day as far as that goes...I feel like his "better mood" is from yesterday's good numbers??? Again...thanks for listening...I feel like I am venting...and thankful for having people who understand my frustration.
Check in tomorrow am...good night to y'all and your furry babies <3
 
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Leigh B said:
Thanks so much. Going to bed teary eyed at 400. So ready for a healthy boy. He's actually seemed in better spirits today, though....thankful for that.
I KNOW he'll have high numbers in the morning. I'll see...and plan 2.5 regardless...but want him out of "renal phase" as my vet put it...under 300...
It's not been a good day as far as that goes...I feel like his "better mood" is from yesterday's good numbers??? Again...thanks for listening...I feel like I am venting...and thankful for having people who understand my frustration.
Check in tomorrow am...good night to y'all and your furry babies <3
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We all understand. :bighug: I suggest 2.5 u this AM and go to 2.75 u this evening or tomorrow morning if you prefer to change dose in the AM. Don't jump to 3 u - it could be too much. We just don't know yet. Unless a kitty's doses are in the 5+ u range we recommend 0.25 u changes.
 
Good morning! His am BG pre-dose was 333. Not as bad as I'd expected. He slept with me all night and seemed to be feeling ok when we woke up. He's downstairs pigging out, which is good, b/c he's not been eating as much as I'd like in the mornings. I am going to go get more of the food he is favoring. Have learned that neither of my boys like the turkey & giblets classic pate :-/
I am going on vacation on the 4th for 5 days, and am already anxious about it. I DO have a sitter for Murphy. She will stay at my house and give him his Rx, food, etc. As you all can tell...I am a super-stresser when it comes to my feline fellas.
Saying lots of prayers that he is stable and in a good place before I leave, so that he's happy and I can enjoy my vacation.
One day at a time, right? I'm going to try not to worry about next week until it gets here....maybe we'll have balance with Murph by then.
Stay tuned!! Hope you all have a gret day.
 
It's TOUGH to have a diabetic cat, Leigh! We all get that. You worry and worry about them and you have to figure out how to help them when they can't talk and tell you anything, which makes it harder. We've been there and you're totally welcome to vent anytime you need!

Here's a little something that someone wrote a long time ago that might help you feel better: Dear Mom . I read it every now and then myself still. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Rachel said:
It's TOUGH to have a diabetic cat, Leigh! We all get that. You worry and worry about them and you have to figure out how to help them when they can't talk and tell you anything, which makes it harder. We've been there and you're totally welcome to vent anytime you need!

Here's a little something that someone wrote a long time ago that might help you feel better: Dear Mom . I read it every now and then myself still. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thank you for this
 
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