Update on my Barn Buddy

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Barnbuddy

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Was talking to my vet today. She did a consult call to the Vet college in PEI. They suggested a Fructosomine test? Not sure what it is but I have to bring him in on Monday so they can draw blood and send it to the vet college. He is still on 9 units of canninsulin twice a day. They suggested looking at Cushings or Insulin Resistance. They also said something about trying to get the dosage down again. I'll know more on Monday.

Was checking out sources for Methylcobalamine as his back legs seem to be getting weak. Would this be good?
http://well.ca/products/webber-naturals ... _9436.html
And if it is how much would I give him. If not can anyone suggest a Canadian source for it?

His numbers seem to be creeping up lately but today I caught him at the dry food that I've been leaving out in a high place for the other cats. It turns out he's not as weak as I'd thought cuz he got up there. Don't know if this was the first time or not. I think it might have been as he is a very messy eater and it didn't look like he'd been at it before today.

I was talking to a pharmacist today and I can get a 10 ml vial of Lantus for $70 or 3 5ml cartridges of Levimir for $140. That's a bit better than what the vet had quoted me.

Joanne
 
A fructosamine measures the bg levels over a 2-3 week period and gives an average. When you're hometesting, it's a pretty unnecessary test (but one that should be run at diagnosis), so I'm not sure you really need to do it.

What makes your vet think Cushing's? And insulin resistance is usually caused by an underlying issue anyway, like acromegaly, Cushing's or IAA (insulin autoantibodies). And you can certainly try reducing the dose, just do the ketone testing again while you try it.

I know people have used methyl B12 like that-- sometimes it's flavored but if you crush it and put it on his food he may not notice. I used a capsule formulation for Robbie. A quick google search came up with this: http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/methylresource.html so may be worth a try?

(((hugs))) Hope you are well.
 
Revisit the Acromegaly and IAA with your vet - it is easier to diagnose or rule out than Cushing's.

Also, Cushing's seems to affect more female cats and Acromegaly seems to affect more male cats.

If they send blood samples directly to Michigan Statu Univ Vet lab, it will cost less than going through a Canadian lab with double shipping and profit markups.
http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Bin/Cat ... st&Id=1401
This lab charges $44 US for the Acromegaly (IGF-1) test. The IAA test is less than $20 US (I don't have the link handy).
Both are blood tests.
 
Go check to see if you can open the article on acromegaly that I mentioned in the forum about my vet appointment. If you could print that, she might find it very useful. ;-)
 
As for the dose on B12, (meth...) one of those links I sent you yesterday said she used 3 mg. The pills I had were 1000 micrograms, so that would have been 3 pills,(right?) which is way more than I gave. I use to give 1/4 or 1/2 pill dropped in his food.

The vet asked me to stop that when we discovered his heart disease issue. It also stimulates red blood cells, I think.

They were a small losenge that dissolved instantly.
 
I had already printed the article on Acromegaly for the vet. She pretty much dismissed it saying I don't think he has that. But if you want to test for it we can make arrangements to do so...but it will be VERY expensive. Kinda told me it was a waste of time and money.

I'm going to order the lozenges today.

Joanne
 
Joanne,
I think this is a new article. I had a thought.
Open this article as a PDF,
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 58b97d9ea5

scroll down to figure 5 and observe the front to back spacing between the upper and lower fangs (canines?) See how the lower teeth are well forward of the upper fangs in the figure 5?
Now go take a look at all 3 of your cat's teeth, and compare the spacing between upper and lower fangs when their teeth are closed. Do they look about the same as each other?

The growth hormone caused the acro cats mandible to grow faster.
 
I can't seem to find it! I get a list of about 10 - 12 articles...1 on Acromegaly. But nothing there about teeth.

Joanne
 
I got it. His teeth don't look like that. At least I don't think they do. Wonder if I could take a picture of his mouth.

Joanne
 
Hi Joanne

Since I am also in Canada, PM me your address and I will send you the 3 bottles of methyl B12 that I have left over. I also have 2 cartridges of Lantus, but I'm not to sure how to get them to you with out them freezing.

When Milo was first dx our vet told me there where 3 kinds of diabetic cats. The first only needing insulin for a short time with remission. The second would remain on insulin for the rest of its life. And, the third, are cats that cannot be regulated and that group are usually PTS.
I would think their 3rd group of diabetic cats could include more than a few acro's.

Our vet started us on Caninsulin and his numbers continued to rise and the whole time he was on it he felt and looked like crap. I found this board the day I brought Milo home from the vet, and went back to him with the info on Lantus/Levemir and home testing. He advised against it. Explaining Lantus was a human insulin and testing him that often would be torturing him.

When I went to him to have Milo tested for acro, he advised against it. My cat didn't look acro, and besides its only 1 in a million cats that get that. When the results came back positive he told me there was no treatment and advised PTS or consult with the people on the internet that told me to get the test.

When I asked him for a referral and his opinion on taking Milo to CSU for treatment he again advised against it. Stating cats do not do well in study situations and besides the treatment is experimental.

I guess what I am trying to say, it is your cat and your the one that has to weigh the information and the advise from all sources to make your own decision on your cats care.

I to am from a very small rural community with a vet that has limited resources, who's practice specializes more in farm animals, and obviously doesn't see nor treat very many cats with diabetes little lone acromegaly. But, even though I didn't take his advice and in the beginning he probably thought I was nuts, I just kept bringing him information and kept him updated on Milo's progress, and to this day he is still Milo's vet. He is now prescribing Lantus and suggesting home testing to new diabetic patients, so I don't see it as going against our vets, I see it as an opportunity to gain knowledge and share.

If I were you, I would switch to Lantus or Levemir, ASAP. Milo felt so much better after I switched, and once I got him on the Methyl B12 and got his numbers out of the black & red his weakness in his back legs cleared up. If you are going to switch insulins I think you will have to start over at a lower dose, somebody here will be able to give you advice on that. The Fructosomine test is a waste of money, and if you are going to draw blood for a test, I would test for acro over cushings.

When I had Milo's acro test done our vet drew the blood. Overnited it to vet college in city. They overnited it to MSU. Results came back to vet college. Vet college sent results to Milo's vet. I was charged for every step along the process, which is totally unnecessary. Contact MSU yourself and get the form, get your vet to draw the blood and overnite it yourself.

Sorry for the novel :lol:

Hugs,
Wendi & Milo
 
Hi Joanne,

I really, really think it would be worth getting the tests (IGF-1 & IAA). You can go online to MSU and read exactly what is needed. All you need the vet to do is draw & spin the blood (you only need the clear stuff...they spin all the red blood cells out). Then, you can send the samples directly to MSU (maybe call and discuss first...tell them you are in Canada and ensure that you can ship directly). They even have pre-paid mailers for people in the US; you might ask if they have any reduced shipping options for Canadians.

I'm with Wendi on the Lantus/Lev. I have no experience with other insulins, but a lot of the other acromoms do, and they really noticed a difference in how the cats feel when they switch.

Many cats show no physical signs, until much, much later. Neither of my "normal" vets noticed any signs with Boo. Dr. Lunn, the specialist at CSU, did note that Boo's paws were slightly larger than normal and that her forehead protruded. However, you simply can't go on physical signs.

Knowing one way or another just gives you some peace-of-mind and some options. You'll understand why you have to shoot ridiculous doses; you can possibly try the SRS treatment or keep your eyes open for another trial. Or, you can simply continue insulin treatment and know that he might need some pain meds later on.
 
I agree with the others; scrap the current insulin and switch to Lantus or Lev, plus definitely get the IAA and IGF-1 tests done.

I think there are alot of people who start out on Caninsulin / Vetsulin because that's what vets give; I got up to 4.0 u before switching to Lantus. As soon as we switched, Shadoe's numbers started to come down and she completely changed for the better. I could not believe the improvement in how she acted. Who knows? You could switch him to Lantus or Lev and see a big improvement right away!

I am taking Shadoe in to the vet week after next to have the blood draw and ship it to MSU to have the two tests done. I will leave Cushings for afterwards.

About that fructosamine test - I had one done, just to see what it would say. The results were a high number indicating Shadoe was not regulated and so, basically it was a total waste of money. Why? Because I home test and anyone can see that Shadoe's numbers are high and she is not regulated.
So I also vote for the fructosamine test as being a waste of your money, unless you have not started on any insulin tx yet.

On the other hand,I don't see the two tests, for IAA and acro, as a waste of money at all.

Depending on Shadoe's results, I may switch to Lev as I have been told it's more gentle, so if her results are positive, we'll be switching to Lev.
If Buddy's results are positive, you may want to consider switching to Lev.

As for the sizes and prices, I got a 10ml vial of Lantus when we switched but at a dose of 1u BID, it went bad before I used half of it. I now get the Lantus cartridges because the one small cart will be used by the time it may have expired which often is around 28days or so. I don't know the shelf life of Lev though. I would think you would have less waste or loss if you go with the cartridges, no matter if you are giving 1u shots or 10u shots.

As the others have said, YOU are the customer, so the vet should do what YOU want done. The vet can advise, but ultimately, you can have a test done if you want it, cuz it's your cat and your money, right? I bet you would not let your dr get away with dismissing your requests for tests, would you?

Don't be scared away by comments like 'oh it will be very expensive.' Ask how much! I did! You know the cost of the tests in USD, now go to purolator online calculator, or even fedex if they have one. Calculate what shipping costs will be from your postal code to the MSU zip code and you will know what it costs to ship between your address and the test lab. If you have that info, and you go to your vet, you can get some better cooperation.
I told my vet that the 2 tests cost $57 USD and purolator ships next day from her address to the MSU lab for just under $200. I think my telling her that info got me a decent quote which was total lab costs $142.75 billed to me.

Many vets just don't know, so we can't fault them much. We are learning along with the vets. If Shadoe's tests are positive, she will be their only IAA or acro kitty at their animal hospital.

By pushing for the tests, and sharing the info with the vets, we are actually helping the vets better treat their other feline patients.
 
Barnbuddy said:
Was talking to my vet today. She did a consult call to the Vet college in PEI. They suggested a Fructosomine test?
Click to expand...

I am not entirely sure why, but many vets are very attached to the idea of fructosamine tests. Even the IM vets I work with advise it on cats that are home tested. I think because they are used to reading those numbers rather than pages and pages of daily numbers, and it's just a comfort/habit thing. Maybe it's like a shortcut for them. I don't know, but I badly flustered one of the internists by politely challenging it so I have let it drop at work. Most people don't hometest anyway so the situation is rare.

I am always a proponent of easy, quick rule-outs and the acro/IAA tests fall in that category. I would call or email MSU to ask if it's ok to freeze the sample (due to the cold during transport), and also ask what tube to use. The normal serum container has a gel in it which should not be frozen, AFAIK. Anyway they'll tell you specficially, and I'd just get the vet or tech to draw blood as others have said. You'll have answers in a few days and can put the issues to rest or revise your treatment plan in light of a positive result.
 
Buddy was diagnosed in September 09. I think by now my vet is looking at me as a PITA. Most people just accept what she says and don't question it. I don't think she likes the fact that I ask why and when she can't give me the answer I go looking. (I have an Insulin Resistant horse...my vet at the time told me there was no such thing as an IR horse.)

This vet clinic is the only one here and because of my love of animals I can't afford to alienate the vet! So I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. How difficult is it to get blood serum across the border I wonder?

Buddy spent most of the day upstairs with me today. (or outside in the rain), but hardly went to his favorite place under the basement stairs. Hopefully he was feeling a little better today.

Joanne
 
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