Update on Faith

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Mizmelzy

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When I brought in Smokie for a blood work check for his T4 numbers. I also asked her about Faith.
She said that she has many many diabetic cats and
based on what I'm telling her about faith, that it doesn't sound like diabetes,
but it could be at the very very beginning stages.
Since the only signs faith is showing is drinking a lot and
peeing a lot. She also said that she's worked with many diabetic cats in her
office. She's the kind of vet she said that likes to try new things to see if
they might work better and be less expensive for the owners. She's seen results
with her diabetic cats who's numbers are around 400-ish or less that diet is
actually the way to treat it. She did say that there was a vet who came up with
a Hills food called DM something can't remember. That the cats with lower
numbers did so much better with just a diet change. All though she did say that
the food is pricey. And that I may just have to feed faith the food. But
usually if it's prescription it's like at least $1.00 or more a can. Which would
be $2 a day. It would be $14 a week just to feed her. Not sure I could do that
and feed smokie. Let alone the other cats. But that's another battle I'm working on.

She also said that really the best diet for a diabetic cat is wet food. That
yes it may be done with insulin to control the diabetic cat while on dry food.
But it's not good for the cat at all.

I did ask her if she could treat her based on the numbers and I would bring her
in so she could see her and then right a script for the insulin and stuff.
Because there is a diabetic group who will make sure I have insulin for faith.
But she told me that insulin has an expiration date and the longer it sits the
less effective it is. She said also that she does not like to go based on what
a glucose meter says alone to diagnose. She said that a few of her clients do
that and when they do the blood glucose testing where they have a lab do it,
there has always been a big difference in the numbers. That difference could
mean a diet change is all that's needed. She said that I would have to bring
her in for a blood test and then she could see where she could help me from
there. She doesn't like treating blind. It usually ends up costing the owner
more money and could harm the cat. And she said in my situation it's best.

She also said it could be behavioral if I have multiple cats who harass her and try to play with her.
If they do this often in the litter box room she may be holding it longer
Thus she holds the urine until she absolutely has to go. She did recommend that
I put her in a room with no more than 1 cup of water, and some food.
Check the litter box and see if there is any change in the amount of urine when she pees.
This could be a sign it's behavioral and not the other. She also said that if she eats a lot
she'll drink more too. Like with Hyper T cats. The reason why the drink so much is because they
eat so much. A cat has to have so much fluid per amount that they eat.

Last night I put faith in a room with food and no more than 1 cup of water. I put her in there around 9 and when
I checked before I went to bed she had not drank or eaten anything. She had not peed either.
This morning when I checked there was one pee spot and it was not nearly as huge as I've seen her pee before.
Before her whole urine clump took up the whole cat litter scoop literally. This was larger than what the other cats
usually pee but a WHOLE lot smaller than what I have seen her pee. She did drink water. I'd say that 1/2 an inch or
so went down since last night. So, I'll know more when I check tonight when I let her out. So hopefully maybe
this is diet and behavior related. I mean with her weight now, she is surely headed down the road to diabetes,
if she hasn't started it already.

My problem right now is that with my Hyper T cat because he's not regulated I can not take the food up a whole lot.
I've taken it up during the day, and when he cries I'll put it down. But when I leave for work I have to put it down.
I'm usually only gone for no more than 3 hours or so. But once he's regulated they will be on a feeding schedule for sure.

I'll keep everyone posted on my findings later tonight. I appreciate all the help I am getting. Thank you! :-D
 
Particularly if money is an issue, you do not have to feed a prescription diet. The doctor who developed DM has since said it is not an ideal diabetic diet as it is too liver based and has higher carbs than some of the commercial foods. Many cats here who have started on DM soon refuse to eat it. I think most cats are just not that crazy about liver. DM wet is about 8% carbs, so it is not bad, but there are other foods that have fewer carbs. Most of us feed Fancy Feast, Wellness, Friskies or Wellness. Have you seen Janet and Binky's food chart? Janet and Binky’s chart

Also, you can free feed wet food to all your cats. Some of us use an automatic feeder; some of us freeze the food and leave it out to thaw.

As far as being diabetic, the definitive test is a fructosamine test. It is a little expensive but it will tell you whether your cat is diabetic or not. It gives you the average of the bg levels over the previous weeks. The problem with experimenting with food or glucose urine tests is that if your cat is diabetic, the longer you wait to give insulin (if needed) the more stress on the pancreas. And if your cat is not diabetic, your vet needs to find out what is wrong and treat it.

I think you are getting strips and a meter from Lori and Tom. You can test regularly for a few days at home and get bg levels that will also give you a clearer idea whether she is diabetic or not.
 
I'll take a look at the chart. Thanks for the link.

This morning when I went into the cat litter room to check the boxes, there was one huge pee puddle in there like before. But I think faith made that right before I put her in a room. But interesting enough there was another pee spot that was a little smaller but still what I would consider on the larger side. Close in size to the BIG one in there. there were several larger pee spots. She's been in the room since about 9pm or so. I also cleaned the litter box last night too. So now the bigger spots I thought were not her's at all. I went in to check again and she has had more to drink, but has not peed yet. But in looking what is in the litter box now based on the other spots that I thought were hers. They are approximately the same size as the others. I'd have to say her pee spot is about 3x smaller than what I see normally in the litter box. So, I still plan on testing her. But I'm thinking that she may be peeing in the same spot more than once and that all the cats are doing that. I have several side pee'r s. I still plan on testing her. But seeing that when she's put in a room her pee looks MUCH more normal. It is easing my fears some. Now Just praying that she isn't diabetic. If she isn't. I'll do all I can to make sure she doesn't get it by getting her to loose weight!


As for free feeding the wet, I can do that, but I still have one cat who doesn't eat wet. She's used to being free fed dry and because she's part feral, she will NOT touch wet at all. However I think she'd be easier to get on a feeding schedule than the other cats lol

Mel
 
It is possible your vet is a bit out of date with regard to feline diabetes treatment.
Lantus, for example, if refrigerated and never shaken (doesn't need it) can last several months once opened.
The expiration date of an unopened vial can be a good year from the date you get it.

When one of the FDMB kitties passes, unexpired insulin supplies may be donated to DCIN or FDMB members in need.

Take some time reading over the Lantus stickies and maybe print out some of them to share/discuss with your vet.
 
Thanks. I'll check it out.

I also just did a check on faith. She has drank only 1/2 of the water that I put in her dish so far since yesterday at 10pm and has only peed twice so far. When my vet called with smokie's blood test results. I showed her the size of the urine spots she was leaving (via email and ruler so she could assimilate size), and told her that as of right now at 6:09pm that she still has roughly 1/2 her water left. That she's eaten more than she's had to drink. She said that if the urine spots are much smaller and she's not peeing a ton, she said it's doubtful that faith has diabetes. But she said that she definitely wants me to test her for bg results. Because she could be on the verge and this will tell us. If she is, then I have to bring her in for testing. So once I test her I'll let everyone know. Please say prayers! ;)

Again thank you so much for helping me out! I appreciate it. You are all angels!

Mel
 
I got the kit today. I want to check her blood sugar but not sure WHEN I should do it. I think when my grandmother had diabetes I had to check her BEFORE she ate anything to know what her blood sugar was because she had type 2 diabetes. She didn't need the insulin. Not sure if it's the same for cats or not. I'm pretty sure she ate about 30 minutes ago. So just wanting to know When I should be testing for optimal results.

Thanks!
Mel
 
It would be good to test her before eating and then after eating both. Just start testing and keeping track.

Did you try it out on yourself first so you are sure you know how it works? Don't forget the rice sack and the treat.
 
Yes I did, even though I'm familiar with doing the whole blood glucose testing from when I had to do it for my grandmother. I took care of her for about 3or 4 years before had really bad dementia. That little prick on the finger hurts. I can't image what it feels like on a cats ear! I'll be testing her tomorrow and let everyone know the results.

Mel
 
It does hurt on our finger but the cats apparently don't have the nerve endings in their ears that we do. If it hurt them in any way, none of us would or could be hometesting. We wouldn't hurt them and they definitely would not sleep through a test if it hurt.
 
Well I did a test last night and I did one this morning. She had eaten 5 minutes prior. Yeserday she did go down stairs so I'm not sure if she at or not. So can't be 100% sure. But the first reading last night was 51! and the reading this morning is 45!I looked at what a cats blood sugar should be and these numbers are VERY low. Maybe I'm not testing at the right times or what. This would make her Hypoglycemic. The only sign I have seen from what I've read is they say to keep them in a warm place. I have noticed recently that her favorite spot is in front of the heat register underneath the sink counter. I never used to see her doing that ever, and all of a sudden she was doing it. But other than that she is drinking on and off water and has eaten. So I'll be calling the vet this afternoon to find out if I should be concerned. I mean in every other way she's normal. Though she's gotten super active at night. Yesterday she played last night racing back and forth for like 5 minutes or more. I have rarely seen her play before she lost the 2.5 pounds she lost.

I'll let everyone know what the vet says when I call her.
 
She is not on insulin yet, right? If she is not on insulin, those are perfectly normal numbers. Non diabetic numbers. A kitty can't go hypo if they are not on insulin.

If she is getting insulin, those are nearly hypo numbers. If so, please repost with a 911
 
If Faith isn't on insulin yet, then I would have to say Congrats you don't have a sugarcat. I routinely test all my civies (non-diabetics) and those are very much civie numbers, my guys go from 45 - 65 depending on the time of day, what they have recently eaten etc.

As far as the racing around playing late at night, that is very normal thing at least here, we affectionately call it the "Midnight Crazies" My house is set up so there is a straight shot from the front of the house to the back of the house. Every night like clockwork I have at least 3-4 if not all of my furry kids running from the front window, through the house, down the basement stairs, around the basement (their cat towers are down there), back up the stairs, through the house again, and back to the front window, rinse and repeat.

So from what you have describe so far sounds like a very normal kitty, or as normal as any cat gets... lol

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
No she's not on insulin. But When looking up numbers for what blood sugar should be normally in cats and I got a range from 65-180 something. That's WAY below that. So I would like to talk to my vet to make doubly sure that these number are okay and I shouldn't worry unless they drop lower or she starts acting funny.

Mel
 
Those are general numbers. Lots of cats run in the 40s. But, yes, it would be a good idea to make sure there is no other reason your kitty might have lower blood glucose levels. I am just glad we aren't looking at a hypo this am!
 
Well if you get those numbers and are normal then I feel a little better. But activity for her is NOT normal. Normally she just sits around and when you try to play with her night or morning she'll lay there and bat at it. Won't get up or anything. Then last night she was crazy kitty. Which concerned me because that is not like her at all. Not that I don't want her to be active or anything. It's just don't need her having a heart attack because she's running around being 17.5lbs. She was breathing a little heavy afterwards. I know I do too if I'm running around lol I just worry about my babies so much that it sometimes makes me crazy. You have one sick kitty and then every odd behavior coming from the others you start worrying about. I'd rather be too worried and than not worried enough. Cause you could miss something important then!


Mel
 
Normal range for a non-diabetic cat is between 40 - 120. The only one I have here out of 11 that runs anywhere near 65 is Max and he is a diet controlled diabetic. In fact just this morning I tested two of my civies,one who is pregnant, and one who is 9 month old. The 9 month old tested at 45, and the pregnant one tested at 52. Both are healthy active little fluff balls.

Even Max tends to stay in the mid 50s to mid 60s, sometimes I'll get something in the 70s but that is usually first thing in the morning when he hasn't eaten yet.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
I too have a sigh of relief that she's not diabetic. However, I know that if I don't get her weight down she might become diabetic which we don't want. I've asked different people who have had overweight cats, vets and other experts what the best method of weight loss is. I have some telling me put her on wet food 2. A few vets have told me wet will not help them loose weight. You need a light dry food like science diet. and moderating her food intake. The one thing though that they all agreed on is not too much weight loss at one time. It has to be gradual.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Mel
 
We had our Maine Coon Oliver on Science Diet Light for 10 years, trying to get his weight down from 16 pounds. It nevery helped and I feel sure that food contributed to his diabetes. We changed to all wet and in less than a year, he was down to 13, a much better weight.
 
I would have to second what Sue said, Patches came to me on an dry "diet" food, he weighed almost 22 lbs, after switching him to a wet diet he still has a ways to go but he is down to 15 lbs.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
I emailed Mel for an update on Faith. (She had posted on DCIN's Yahoo group so I could reach her through that.)

I got a urine sample to the vets and she said there is no glucose in her urine. The home tests I did came back normal as
well, but it turns out she had a UTI which made her drink more and pee more. I've had my hands full with Smokie who was diagnosed with Hyper T in january trying ti get him regulated and my older cat sassy has a uti and the meds (I HOPE) are making her throw up and not want to eat alot. SO i've been on the worry wagon. The vet did tell me to keep testing faiths blood sugar to monitor her because she is over weight and is more prone to it. So i've been testing her once a week or so. Still in the normal range though which is good!
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