Update on Boots

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Jade77

Member Since 2013
Hello all, hope everything is well with your kitties :) Boots is chugging along. I raised his dose recently, and upon speaking with someone, I lowered it back to 1.5 u and will see how that goes. Im frustrated because I am still seeing a lot of red and pink at 1.5, but when I went to 1.75 we had some crazy lows..he has been throwing up the wet cat food but is eating boiled chicken breast and keeping it down just fine. And the fruit fly problem is as bad as it has ever been :/ But I have been testing for ketones fairly regularly and each test has been negative, so that is good!
 
The 1.5 doesn't seem like it's enough, but those steep drops on the 1.75 definitely look to be too much. Can you try going for a "fat" 1.5u and see how Boots does? I wonder if something else might be going on with him, like an infection (any dental issues?). Maybe he's just a sensitive and bouncy kitty. ;-) confused_cat

What food are you currently feeding him? I wonder if he might have a food allergy or something else going on that's causing the vomiting (and possibly higher numbers).

For the fruit flies, you can actually catch more flies with vinegar than honey. Leave out an empty bottle of wine with maybe a little bit of wine still in the bottom. The flies will be attracted and then trapped. Re-cork and toss the bottle after a day or so and that should get rid of many of them. Also, bleach your garbage disposal (where they usually breed and re-infest from) and get rid of all fruits (or refrigerate them instead) for a couple of weeks till they disappear.
 
Hi, I'm a newbie here too,, and not a lantus user, but I was looking at your ss, and it still says you're dosing 1.75 (wondered because you said you've switched to 1.5) ... A couple days ago you got a 41, which I believe in the lantus protocol calls for a dose reduction, so I'm guessing the 1.75 is definitely too much.

Boiled chicken is fine for short term, but you need to get him eating cat food asap, to prevent malnutrition (or get him some supplements) I would maybe try putting the chicken in with some canned, or maybe shred it a bit and top the canned with it.

As for the fruit flies.. I've had that problem a couple times before, it was way worse when I wasn't rinsing out the cans (have a separate 'recycle' can just for the cat food cans) But I managed to get rid of them somewhat unconventionally..... I put half an onion in the bottom of a tallish cup, put it in my sink and hung a sticky fly trap directly over/partially in the cup. Wasn't very long before the trap was full. (I had to make sure there wasn't any other easily available food/water for them first tho)
 
Hi Jade, and extra sweet Boots too!

If I were you, I'd drop back to the 1.5 unit dose. On the 1.75 Boots went to 40 and that's a reduction number, so he should have gone down to 1.5 (although with that bounce into the 500's, "shooting through the bounce" was a good decision. (giving that dose 1 more time to help bring Boots down from the bounce) but at the next cycle, you should take the reduction back to 1.5

I understand your frustration though since he didn't seem to do too well on the 1.5 before, but we also don't want him going too low and then bouncing through the roof every day either. That's harder on them than just being in higher numbers.

Hopefully some of the other members will chime in and give you some advice on what to do with Boots next.
 
thanks all for the advice! I did drop him back to 1.5 today, his shots are 530 am and pm. And the fruit flies are coming from the litter box, because of all the sugar in his urine. I clean it out daily, but it isn't doing any good. I have what is bordering on infestation and I don't know what to do about it. When will sugar stop coming out in his urine?
 
The only answer to that is "When his blood glucose numbers are under control"....the threshold for glucose spilling over into the urine is somewhere around 240 and Boots is still way too high

I know how you feel though. Before China was under better control, the flies in the house were AWFUL!
 
Welcome back!

Anything under 50 is an automatic dose decrease for a newbie. And because he dropped low on the 27th it looks like he bounced afterward.. hence the nasty black. He also bounced off the 68 yesterday... and he may have dropped lower than the 68 at some point that you missed.

Cats tend to bounce whenever the blood sugar drops fast, or drops to a level thats lower than they are used to. If they have been high for a while, then they can bounce from pretty much anything lower than that high level - and certainly will bounce if they drop under 40. Once they do bounce, the liver keeps panicking for up to 72 hours. Once the bounce clears they come back down again.

We wait till bounces have cleared before making a dose change so we will wait 2-3 days on 1.5 before deciding if this dose works or not.

Wendy
 
is it normal for glucose numbers to still not be under control after 4 months? Im afraid the fly problem is going to get me evicted..I have had management in here a couple times telling me that if I need to get the issue under control. I knew this was going to be a process, but I really have not seen any changes at all since starting the insulin. Also, what is a "fat" 1.5? And thanks Wendy! :)
 
It depends on how well the diabetes is managed. Although the last week or so we are seeing more greens and blues which is a good sign but we have to keep on top of dose .. not hold a dose too long if it needs changed.

A fat 1.5 is a drop over 1.5. But I wouldn't bother with that yet - stick to 1.5 for now and see how it goes. As per protocol you want to hold the 1.5 for at least 3 days and then we reevaluate.

Wendy
 
okay, got it. I will try to test as often as I can in these next 3 days so I can get as much data as possible.
 
Oh, I forgot to answer some questions that were asked. No infections, no dental issues I'm aware of either. And he was seen by a vet just a couple months ago. I feed him a variety of friskies pate flavors...mostly the poultry flavors. Lately he is all of a sudden interested in the dry cat food, so much that he will whine where I have it placed too high for him to get to (I have another cat) and won't eat the wet food til he gives up on whining at the dry. Im starting to think maybe I should ask my vet for a script for some diabetic dry food to leave out in small amounts and try to appease him.
 
There aren't any "prescription" dry foods that are low in carbs...even the Science Diet M/D (which a lot of them want us to use) is 14%

There are only a couple of dry foods that some people have had some luck with..One of them is Young Again Zero Carb but it's very expensive. $49 for 8lbs

I don't remember the other one, but it's really best to just stay away from any dry.

If the only reason you're keeping dry food in the house is because of your other cat, why not just transition everyone off the dry and onto low carb wet food? We have lots of tips on how to get those kibble addicts off their "drug of choice" and eating low carb. In the long run, you'll be doing your non-diabetic cat a favor by helping to keep him from possibly becoming diabetic
 
My other cat gets pretty severe diarrhea when she eats the wet food, so I stopped trying that. It's pretty gross, and gets all over everything around the box :/
 
No dry food!! Unless you get the dry that China recommended. ... Even a little DM dry etc can spike her blood for up to 24 hours.

Ok now try 1.25 instead. We want for now to find a dose you can give twice a day..

Wendy
 
he has done fine with 1.5 for both shots today, I'm thinking it was just a residual effect from the 1.75 I just stopped giving him. And 50 bucks for a pound of dry food is WAAAAY out of my price range, so I will just keep putting some chicken in his wet food to appease him lol
 
Sorry! Lost internet for a few days. Comcast is the worst. He is doing fine with the 1.5, I have been getting as many tests as I my schedule permits, and Im about to update his SS now that my internet is up again.
 
Jade, I'm concerned about Boot's numbers and think that the 1.5 may be too much for Boots

You've had quite a few skipped shots due to low readings and then he's bouncing way high

I'd really suggest that you drop back to 1 unit for awhile and see if you are able to give it every 12 hours without getting those pre-shot lows that cause you to not shoot, and the big bounces from quick drops.

It might make a big difference if you try it, and we can re-evaluate the dose in as little as 3 days if you're willing to try it and be consistent with 1 unit every 12 hours, as well as getting as many mid-cycle tests as possible.

Going too low and then bouncing so high isn't good for Boots.

What do you think? We'd love to see Boots getting better numbers than he's been getting and staying in the numbers that will help heal his pancreas
 
Agreed. When I was putting in the numbers before work yesterday I noticed ANOTHER skipped shot (I was at work overnight, trying to get ready for the holidays) so Gabe helped me out that night. Then there was ANOTHER skipped shot this morning, so I will go down to one unit. I will get as many tests as I can.
 
I think I'd try 1.25 and see how Boots does. Reductions are done in .25 increments and then held for 3 days before making any more changes (unless they drop below 50)

Going down to 1 unit might be too big of a reduction and then you'd just have to go back up to 1.25 anyway, so let's try the 1.25 for a few days and then see how it's going
 
I did the one unit, because that was the last message I saw..I work a LOT :/ Only get a chance to check replies but once a day
 
That's ok!! Let's just see how Boots does on the 1 unit for a few days

In the future though, if you reduce or increase, it should be in .25 unit increments

Hope Boots likes this dose though! :mrgreen:
 
Me too! Does the constant change of insulin have negative side effects? I wish he could tell me when he feels good and when he feels yucky.
 
If you're following the protocol, there shouldn't be a lot of changes in dose....each dose should be held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless Boots drops below 50

It's harder on them to be unregulated and to get better control, you need to follow the protocol

Don't forget to keep your spreadsheet up to date. It doesn't have the numbers for the last several cycles when you shot the 1 unit (I'm assuming you did)

Will look for you tomorrow and see how you're doing :-D
 
I can only update it so much. I just about live at work, I have no internet access there. It's written down at home, but between 50 plus hours a week, a two year old, and a diabetic cat, I only get to the computer and update the SS when I can. Im sorry.
 
No apology needed Jade! We all do the best we can. I didn't know your situation!

Maybe if you can, when you're able to use a computer to check in here, you can give us whatever test results you have?

WOW!!...You do have your hands full! Just dealing with either a 2 yr old OR a diabetic cat is a lot of work, much less doing both!!
 
I just got the SS updated, it looks like the one unit isn't really doing much good, should I increase to 1.25?
 
Yes..it's time to go up and see how Boots does

Good luck with the dosecrease to 1.25!!

Jade, next time you post, why not come over to the Lantus Tight Regulation Board. Everyone there uses Lantus so you'll get lots of experienced eyes helping to advise you

Each day we start a new post (we call them condo's) with the date, cats name and AMPS reading in the subject line. (So today's would say "11/10 Boots AMPS 362"
In the body of the post, you'd first put the link to your prior day's post so people can easily go back to see what happened the last time you posted, and then you'd just give the WCR (Whole Cat Report)...How Boots is feeling...Is his appetite good?..are the 5 P's in place? (purring, playing, preening, peeing, pooping)...anything you feel would help tell us about how Boots is doing. Any questions you have would go in too (and if you add the ? icon to the first post of the day, it'll let people know your post contains a question)

I understand you can't always post, so don't take this too seriously...it's not "required" or anything but there's a lot of experience there and with a cat like Boots that you've had trouble getting regulated, more experience from more people is a good thing!!
 
Yes, I really am more comfortable here. 1.25 hasn't taken effect yet I don't think...I have been getting a lot of high readings lately. I have the next 3 days off (besides one meeting scheduled) so I will be home LOTS to test him as much as is needed in that time. And to keep the SS updated :)
 
Remember, it usually takes 2-3 days after an increase to start seeing the results

And WOO HOO on the 63!!...but BOO on the 163 only a little while later. Did you feed a lot of High Carb food or did Boots just bounce that quickly?
 
I think he just bounced. I gave him a little food after the test, so he wouldn't be completely annoying the two hours before his shot, (his hungry meow drives me crazy lol), but it was just friskies pate.
 
I know the feeling...they are masters of acting like they're starving and neglected when they want to!!

Hope Boots does well on this dose!! Got to wait out the bounce now!
 
You may replace about 1/4 (25%) of the canned food with just chicken of meat per Cat info. Or add the equivalent of 1/4 to the canned, (which makes it a 20% mix.)
 
Adding chicken adds protein to the food and can help keep them fuller a little longer. It's more for those "starving kitty" looks than his BG
 
1.25 looking good so far but lets see. He has seen green before then back to pink red...anyway lets hold this for a good 10 cycles to see what happens.
 
I could have sworn I replied to you Wendy..well, in any event, Im having a problem. I tried putting the other cat on the wet food, but not only is it giving her severe diarrhea, but she is also puking it up, and making my house unsanitary for my toddler to run around. So I put her back on the dry, and now Boots is getting into it..Im stuck, because I can't not have dry food out since Im gone a large portion of the day.
 
What kind and type of food are you feeding that's causing the diarrhea?

Many cats are allergic to certain foods, especially beef and fish, so you should try feeding foods without them and see if it helps. If you still have problems, you just have to keep trying to figure out if one certain protein is causing problems, so it's important to feed foods with only 1 protein source and then see if it causes problems. Usually chicken and turkey are better, but some cats can't handle one or both of them either

You can also try foods with novel protein sources, like rabbit, venison, bison or kangaroo, but first, I'd try to see if it's one certain food that's causing the problem

Boots can't have dry anymore, so hopefully you'll be able to nail down the problem

Good luck!
 
Remeber to make food changes S L O W L Y to avoid GI upsets of diarhprhea, vomiting, and inappetance. Change 20-25% of the food each day when starting something new.


If you must do some dry:
Evo Cat & Kitten
Stella & Chewy's freeze dried
Young Again 0 Carb (5% as we calculate it, internet only, pricey but supposedly they'll eat less)
 
I think I might just try one of the dry brands suggested. He doesn't get into it every day or anything, but even a couple times a week is too many. And the other kitty is ruining my carpet, further, also can't have that lol. Im only feeding friskies pate. The turkey and giblets kind. That's what Boots really loves. Freya has always been okay with some every now and then, but eating it on a daily basis has always been an issue for her, no matter the type.
 
I just got some of the Stella and Chewy's to try. It has a crumbly texture, so no crunch.

That said, Gracie likes it enough that it makes a good treat after shooting.
 
The lack of greens the last few days will probably be the dry food. You might want to increase her dose again back to 1.5

Wendy
 
I totally agree with Wendy, Jade...you've held the 1.25 more than long enough.

I'd go up to 1.5 tonight and hold that for at least a couple days (unless he happens to drop below 50) and then let's see how he's doing.

Is he still getting into the regular dry food or have you gotten some of the lower carb varieties?
 
I am going to wait until thurs. If it starts to take effect on the third day, that will be the day I am gone 12 hours (getting ready for black friday at work) and no one will even be in the house to help him if he drops too low. Do you think that will be okay? And I have asked Gabe to at least help me with the food situation, so he is putting her in a room to herself to eat a few times a day, then removing it so Boots can't get it. It's working so far.
 
If it makes you more comfortable to wait, then that's what you should do, but I'm concerned how high Boots seems to be (although your spreadsheet is missing several cycles worth of data so it makes it hard to really know what's been going on)

If she's staying at those 300, 400's and "Hi" numbers, I'd be trying to check for ketones.

Hopefully, you have some numbers that look better but just aren't posted yet. Good job on figuring out how to keep Boots out of the dry! That will definitely help!!
 
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