UPDATE for Tiger

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Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Usually when a cat has a hypo or near hypo experience, their hormones are very sensitive and they rebound up high the next day or 2. You are going to need to ignore that and shoot 1u until things calm down, and you get him stabilized on a LC canned food only diet. No more dry treats except in situations like tonight.

It is still possible that he is an acrocat, because the pituatary tumor hormone output fluctuates, and if it drops, it can suddenly cause low numbers because you are giving so much insulin. Acro-beans have to be vigilant on testing everyday for that reason.

Buy the ketodiastyx tomorrow- any pharmacy

You really should test again tonight. He may not be out of the woods. If BG get below 20 its not unlikely to have a seizure.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Brian,

you really cannot go to bed with Tiger in this condition, sorry. He is only just holding steady on honey and high carb food. The 49 is not necessarily a true indication of an increase, since the meters can and do vary somewhat and still be within the tolerance level. One can test a single drop of blood several times and get several different answers -- within a certain range which reflects the accuracy of the meter. To be sure he is safe, you really need to stand guard over Tiger for a while longer.

laur
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

the honey is short lived- hang in there another 30 min so we see a nice 95 or something. and has anyone talked to you about a NO SHOOT number. Usually it 200 for newbies. Under 200, wait and retest, or dont shoot.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

hopefully better, but I was hoping for better. How are you doing? I was just about to close the comp. Can you get him to eat more dry with some gravy flavor added in?
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

lets see- 56 with a 20 % meter error allowable could be 45 or 67. try to put out a bunch of dry overnight, do you have any gravy flavors- turkey and cheese? Yea sorry I'm dead also.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

I really must get some sleep, especially since I have to get up at 7:45 for AMPS. Thank you all for your support and help, I don't know where I would be without you all.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Good morning Brian,

Well, it looks like Tiger's on a huge mission!
Be sure you test and post his BG before his shot this morn .... he's a load of surprises!
All I can say is WOW, maybe Tiger will be a diet-controlled kitty at this rate.
Here's hoping the 1u this morn goes well.

I am glad you had lots of support last nite for Tiger's repeat low BG performance; it's hard to remember everything when you're new, even if you just went through a similar situation earlier in the same day!
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

I would be very hesitant to give Tiger even a 1u shot this morning, regardless of the AMPS BG. Reasons:

1) two shots in last 24 hours resulting in low BGs / asymptomatic hypo

2) unreliable action of Vetsulin as per the lawsuit - effect can be extended

3) conventional wisdom that cats are more sensitive to insulin after a hypo

4) fact that sometimes cats become diet-controlled after a hypo and don't need insulin any more.

Others, your comments?

laur
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Interesting idea Laur; diet controlled would be great!

I think it's past Tiger's shot time of 8am so we'll see what Brian does.
I don't see him online, so we'll see.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

I have to agree- I love the idea of at least waiting. Lots of good LC food, and lots of water in the food. let things settle a day.

Anyone know if Brian works M-F? That could be the one difficulty. Hate it when work gets in the way of life...

He may be sleeping, he was exhausted
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Sorry I didn't start the computer up when I got up this morning.

Tiger's AMPS was 252 and I gave him 1u then fed him. Went back to bed and just woke up. His +4 is 246.

Yes, I work M-F 9-5:30 I always come home for my lunch hour at noon. If need be, I can pop in once in the afternoon as well.

How much food is too much? He's eating like a damn pig. Those things of food at 3.5 ounces each and he eats his and goes on to the leftovers of the others.
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Well Tiger continues to surprise us! Don't be alarmed if he stays in the 200's today - Don't up that dose until his system calms down from those hypo situations. Boy am I glad that you are home testing now and backed down off of that 22u! I can only imagine..... nailbite_smile
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Hi glad to see you starting off with 1 unit was scared for him 22u even 7u seems a lot to me Anyway Good luck with starting slow way to go when his numbers come down so will his eating Kath
 
Re: HELP!!! Sudden low numbers

Phoebe_Rusty_Tiggy_Norton said:
Hi Brian,
How is everything going today? Did you start over at 1u?

You're doing a great job with Tiger.
Click to expand...
I did start over at 1u this morning. He seems to be doing great.
 
I've been taking it easy on his poor ears today so I haven't tested him very much. Judging by the way he was acting, he seemed fine and felt he would be ok. Anyway, here's what I've got so far today.

AMPS 252, gave 1u and fed.
+4 was 246 and fed
+8.5 is 335 then fed

I was thinking just another 1u for his PM shot. Seems to me (and maybe I'm wrong) that he's staying fairly steady for it being +8.5. Laur was kind enough to donate a pen of Levemir to me, which I should get on Tuesday to replace the Vetsulin. The wet food seems to be doing all my cats good, but the loose stool is enough to make me barf. LOL

Also, I got some ketone test strips today and some neosporin with pain relief for Tiger's poor little ears. Question about the ketone strips: Tiger peed on the floor in front of the little box earlier this morning. I haven't cleaned it up just yet (its off to the side and not in the way of others getting in) and I was wondering how "fresh" the pee needs to be to use the strips. Figured that was a good way to get his urine.

So, as always, am I doing it right? Any suggestions? And get this, I was explaining this stuff to a friend of mine today, and as confused as I felt, I blurted this stuff out and actually sounded like I knew what I was talking about! I was like wow, it's sinking in! And for the first time in the past few days, I actually truly felt like I knew everything was going to be ok. And of course, you folks really help. Thanks to you all.

Brian
 
Brian, you are doing awesome! Wow, what a wild ride Tiger is giving you!!

It's preferable to get fresh urine for the test, but I would go ahead and dip the strip in the urine you have at this point. If it is negative, I would confirm that with another test later if possible.

Laur is very kind to send you a Lev pen! :smile: I suspect that the advice will be to stick with 1u for now, but let's see what others think.
 
Brian and Tiger said:
The wet food seems to be doing all my cats good, but the loose stool is enough to make me barf. LOL

I haven't cleaned it up just yet (its off to the side and not in the way of others getting in) and I was wondering how "fresh" the pee needs to be to use the strips. Figured that was a good way to get his urine.

Brian
Click to expand...

Hi Brian,
For the loose stool, you can order some fortiflora. If you PM me your shipping address, i can send you a few packets. I'm going to the post office on Monday anyway. You just sprinkle it on the food and most cats LOOOOVE it. It is a probiotic that helps settle their little tummies.
Many cats experience some intestinal upset when switching foods abruptly.

As for the ketodiastix. Yes. Go ahead and put it in the puddle of urine. If it's negative, great. if it is positive, I would see if I could get another sample.
 
Brian,
You are doing awesome; I am sure that Tiger is finally starting to feel much much better.

So, first, for the testing - there are a few tests that you should not miss and they are the test before each shot, especially with Tiger, and catching a test just before bed. You know about the bedtime one because you got stuck with a late nite due to Tiger's low numbers. Imagine if you had just gone to bed and he went too low with no help to bring him up? Usually by our bedtime, we would have a pretty good idea where the numbers are going.

The food, while they are unregulated, it seems like they are always hungry and their legs have gone hollow. I have wondered how insulin plays into the picture because both mine started to eat more AFTER was started on the insulin. Anyways, their bodies are not able to process the foods and extract what they need so they must keep craving more.
My Shadoe was close to 20oz a day but she is down to less than half that amount now. Oliver was close to 30oz a day but I have him closer to 18oz now and even then I bet I could cut back more.

What you can do is add water to the foods; the water is very good for their bodies and fills them up. Just like people who want to cat back food and lose weight, they just increase their water intake. Since I started adding water to the foods, Oliver stops eating when he laps up all the water! I have to keep adding more water and mashing up the foods. Shadoe likes the soupy slop too. You may want to get some bigger cans of Friskies or something, just till Tiger's appetite slows down.

While you're waiting for the Lev, you can read all the stickys and get a handle on the shed and other things about Lev as it's much different than Vetsulin.
Tight Regulation Protocol
LANTUS & LEVEMIR – INSULIN DEPOT –AKA- STORAGE SHED
Lantus&Levemir – Data Ready to Shoot Low Numbers
With the Lev, you will be sticking with the same dose for about 5 days to get the shed built up.

As for the urine, you can stick the ketostix strip in the urine and see what you get. The fresher the better I think.
 
wow, I think that everything i thought of was already said- so I'll reiterate

Fortiflora is available online or at vets without a prescription (about $23/25 packets). Made by purina. cats love it and it works well on diarrhea. 1/2 half packet/day. Reestablishes good intestinal bacteria. I bet they have it at petsmart.

Yes, you can use the strips in old urine. I have used them to figure out who "wet" the carpet. I have the ketodiastyx which also test for sugar, and my second cat is a civie (non diabetic) so .... easy to tell the guilty party!

Consider the extra large cans of Friskies that they sell at some petfood stores - they are like 8 or 12 oz - like a soup can. its more economical for a pack of mini lions. :-D

Definitely, read the stickies in the Lantus insulin support group about levemir (they are similar and it covers both). It is quite different in how its handled (no rolling) and even how you draw it out- so sorry, more to learn ohmygod_smile We recently switched to lev and like it, but it is quite different. For us, it doesn't really kick in for 3-4 hours, nadir at +8, but it lasts maybe about 13hrs, and has a very gentle easy downward movement so you don't get those sudden low number surprises. There is also a very specific protocol you use to up the dose.

Looks like he did just fine with 1u today, so you can catch up on your sleep tonight!
 
GMTA, guys. :lol: I was going to tuck some fortiflora in with the Lev, so Cyn doesn't need to send any. Works great as either a probiotic to help with GI issues or after antibiotics, or as a food enhancer. It sounds like Tiger is a good eater in general, but it sure pays to have fortiflora on hand for enticement for the day when the appetite is off and you need the cat to eat something.

As for the dose, Tiger's been on a heck of a rollercoaster. His body has been through a lot and needs to stabilize. Barring any further low drops, what would happen now is data gathering and a methodical approach to adjusting the dose. I think you will probably be able to stay on 1u til you get the pen in the mail, but posting your numbers will help us figure out what to do til then. What we find out now will help determine the starting Lev dose.

With the levemir, there is a specific protocol. You definitely can not "jump" the dose around. In other words, you don't adjust the dose to the preshot reading you just got -- with the exception that applies to any insulin: if the cat is getting dangerous lows, the dose gets reduced immediately.

Anyway, as the others mentioned, there is a Lantus group. It's a lot more active than the Lev group, so many Lev users post on Lantus. The two insulins are very similar in action so Lantus users can provide good advice. I had sent you some Lev links last night, and the link to the main Lantus page at viewforum.php?f=9

laur
 
Well, I need opinions. Here's a recap of today's history:

AMPS - 252
+4 - 246
+8.5 - 335
PMPS - 228

This is from 1u this morning. Should I just feed and test again before bed? Or give him 1u tonight.
 
I'd give 1u again tonight. It looks like you did not have a drastic drop today from the 1u. Make sure to test before you go to bed tonight, but you should be safe.
 
Sorry was in a rush this morning and didn't have time to post.

Tiger's AMPS was 249. He's staying pretty consistent now. I will wait and see how the Levemir Laur is sending works out for him tomorrow.

They are all meowing for lunch. Have a good day all!
 
Hi Brian -- glad Tiger is doing so well --

You may want to start a New Topic -- some folks are getting stuck on page one, and don't see all the recent posts / changes that you have made.

In Lantus group, every Kitty gets a new topic ("condo") every day. While that is not necessary here in Vetsulin, it is helpful to make a new post when we get up to two pages.

Thanks!!!
phoebe
 
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