Unregulated cats and dentals

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Luxe

Luxe

Member Since 2020
Hey all! Hope everyone is having a good morning/day/night, wherever you are in the world. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with getting tooth extractions with an unregulated cat. Right now my guy has been diagnosed since 11/9/20. Originally was brought in for an extraction and after blood and then urine based on the blood results, turns out he's DKA and they wanted to hold off which i was totally okay with. So its now been a little less than a month and we're back to the vet weekly because once his pain meds wear off his blood and ketones start to spike. We're going back today to get more fluids and another pain injection and hopefully some different pain meds i can continue to treat with at home. We tried onisor. Had no affect whatsoever. His ketones usually go back to negative within 24hrs of his subq fluids. At that point im going to try calling around to find someone who would be willing to pull the tooth. I do not want him going under with ketones present, but he primarily stays in the 400-600 range. He's had a couple dips into the high 200s-300s after his pain injections but he's regularly very high. I believe a good part of it is the very clear pain and discomfort of that tooth but if no one wants to try and tackle it with his high numbers i dont know how im ever going to get him regulated.
So any input, comments, your own experiences would be super helpful to me and my little OJ. Although he was diagnosed 11/9 his vet told me not to check blood just his ketones so thats why i dont have much on his ss
 
Hiya Luxe! I am so sorry to hear about OJ's health issues. I can't even fathom having to deal with all of that going on at once. You're doing awesome in managing things! I have heard about vets refusing to do dentals on unregulated diabetics. I get it, but then again, I don't considering the tooth is absolutely not helping the diabetes. I personally had my buddy Lou's first dental done when he was unregulated in November 2018. (He just had another a week ago while being tightly regulated.) He ranged from the high 100s to the 400s. Unfortunately, I imagine the issues with ketones may be making the vets more leery of trying something. I think your best bet would be to shop around to see who would be willing to do the dental. I ended up emailing multiple vets in my area asking for estimates and about their experience with diabetics. I ended up doing the dental at my vet at the time since they were the most inexpensive. I wish you the best of luck with the process. Give OJ a scritch for me. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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Amanda and a Loudogg said:
Hiya Luxe! I am so sorry to hear about OJ's health issues. I can't even fathom having to deal with all of that going on at once. You're doing awesome in managing things! I have heard about vets refusing to do dentals on unregulated diabetics. I get it, but then again, I don't considering the tooth is absolutely not helping the diabetes. I personally had my buddy Lou's first dental done when he was unregulated. (He just had another a week ago while being tightly regulated.) He ranged from the high 100s to the 400s. Unfortunately, I imagine the issues with ketones may be making the vets more leery of trying something. I think your best bet would be to shop around to see who would be willing to do the dental. I ended up emailing multiple vets in my area asking for estimates and about their experience with diabetics. I ended up doing the dental at my vet at the time since they were the most inexpensive. I wish you the best of luck with the process. Give OJ a scritch for me. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thank you!! I feel the same way. I totally understand if they're not comfortable and i dont want someone doing something they're uncomfortable with but yes, the three vets i've spoken to all say the tooth is definitely not helping. At this point i've been hoping it would fall out on its own but its a bigger tooth all the way in the back and i dont see that happening. His ketones go down after his injection of pain meds and once the shot wears off they go right back up. Today they're hopefully going to give me something else to manage his pain at home. The onisor pills have not helped at all. If i can keep him pain free for a couple weeks and get his numbers down im hoping then someone will work with me. I'm glad your little one was able to get dental done and get rid of that pain. Hopefully my little juicy boy will be in the same boat sooner than later. I've had him since he was born and i just want to see him put the weight back on and get back to his old self for more than a few days at a time
 
Suzanne Burton said:
Have you considered consulting a dental veterinarian at a College of veterinary medicine? They usually have experience with difficult cases and may be able to help you. They are also, usually, reasonably priced.
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Hmmm i'll have to see if there are any of those around here. My bosses daughter decided she wanted to go to school to be a vet and she had to move a few states away because there werent any around here. So i'll have to check
 
Suzanne Burton said:
Have they considered giving what is called a pulse routine of antibiotics to see if it would help get the BGs down?
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That i've never heard of. They only did the clavamox for 2weeks when they originally thought it was just the tooth when it actually turned out to be dka
 
It might also be worth investigating whether there are any big veterinary referral hospitals near you who have dental specialists on the books. (I'm in the UK so can't help with the professional certifications to look for over there but hopefully someone in the US might be able to advise.)


Mogs
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My sugarcat got confirmed diabetic after she got a tooth pulled. Initially I went to the vet because of her wet hind legs, her usual vet is a dentist specialist. Big blood planet first, high glucose, then she went under for a closer look at her teeth, got one pulled, x rays of her hind legs and hips to look for arthritis and a urinsample.
Came home as a diabetic, with no arthritis but sugar in her urine that made her behind sticky and 1 tooth pulled.
I couldn't tell she's been under, really. So fresh and eating right away, and a few days later we started the insulin.

As I understand, the problem is the tooth that should come out, but no one will operate on a diabetic cat whose unregulated with ketones? And the cat can't get regulated because of the tooth and pains?
 
But that makes absolutely no sense at all?! It's an never ending circle.
How long do they want him to be free of the ketones before doing the surgery?
Are you giving fluids at home?

If a diabetic cat isn't eating, some put in a feeding tube... how is that different from this?
Not everyone gets a blood panel before undergoing surgery, so in theory they could have operated on several diabetics without even knowing?
Are they afraid of liability?
 
SashaV said:
My sugarcat got confirmed diabetic after she got a tooth pulled. Initially I went to the vet because of her wet hind legs, her usual vet is a dentist specialist. Big blood planet first, high glucose, then she went under for a closer look at her teeth, got one pulled, x rays of her hind legs and hips to look for arthritis and a urinsample.
Came home as a diabetic, with no arthritis but sugar in her urine that made her behind sticky and 1 tooth pulled.
I couldn't tell she's been under, really. So fresh and eating right away, and a few days later we started the insulin.

As I understand, the problem is the tooth that should come out, but no one will operate on a diabetic cat whose unregulated with ketones? And the cat can't get regulated because of the tooth and pains?
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Yup. They gave him a pain injection last week and it was like night and day. Numbers were still a little high but they were lower than they had been and he was eating huge meals. Once i noticed them start to lose effect his numbers went way back up, the ketones came back and as much as he wanted to eat he just couldnt. He would try and the second something hit it he was rubbing his face and walking away from the plate. Instead of an injection today they gave me liquid to give him at home which he did not like one bit. But hopefully i get the same results the injection gave him
 
SashaV said:
But that makes absolutely no sense at all?! It's an never ending circle.
How long do they want him to be free of the ketones before doing the surgery?
Are you giving fluids at home?

If a diabetic cat isn't eating, some put in a feeding tube... how is that different from this?
Not everyone gets a blood panel before undergoing surgery, so in theory they could have operated on several diabetics without even knowing?
Are they afraid of liability?
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EXACTLY!! she said he should be negative for two weeks. Im not doing subq fluids at home. I asked about it today and they said its a short term fix. But if its helping him feel better and stay flushed idk why they wouldnt just give it to me. The money isnt a problem
 
He is. They gave me oral pain meds to give at home. Gabepentin(spelling??) so i just gave him his first dose. I wish someone would understand how much its bothering him and like a lets pray for the best and pull it. Right now he still has an appetite albeit having a hard time actually eating. I dont want him to go back to no appetite at all
 
Luxe said:
EXACTLY!! she said he should be negative for two weeks. Im not doing subq fluids at home. I asked about it today and they said its a short term fix. But if its helping him feel better and stay flushed idk why they wouldnt just give it to me. The money isnt a problem
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I wonder whether you might be able to help OJ's fluid intake by offering him water flavoured with light chicken broth (made by poaching a chicken breast in about 1-1½ pints of water), either mixed into his food to make a slurry or used to flavour the water in his drinking bowl? It helped me increase Saoirse's fluid intake.

Also, my civvie, Lúnasa, is at CKD stage III. Vets in the UK aren't big on home sub-qs but I manage to help her keep hydrated by giving her about 50ml of water flavoured with some of the liquid from a pouch of Sheba cat soup (3 servings a day - she's on a dry diet, unfortunately :( ). She monsters the stuff, something for which I am truly grateful. (NB: The soup is not low carb - c. 17%.)


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
I wonder whether you might be able to help OJ's fluid intake by offering him water flavoured with light chicken broth (made by poaching a chicken breast in about 1-1½ pints of water), either mixed into his food to make a slurry or used to flavour the water in his drinking bowl? It helped me increase Saoirse's fluid intake.

Also, my civvie, Lúnasa, is at CKD stage III. Vets in the UK aren't big on home sub-qs but I manage to help her hydrated by giving her about 50ml of water flavoured with some of the liquid from a pouch of Sheba cat soup (3 servings a day - she's on a dry diet, unfortunately :( ). She monsters the stuff, something for which I am truly grateful. (NB: The soup is not low carb - c. 17%.)


Mogs
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They aren't thrilled about prescribing subq fluids here either.
I have a friend who's working at veterinarian...:oops:
It's not prescription everywhere, so it might be possible to find it online?
It's so stupid really. It's water with electrolytes, what can we do wrong?
"Oh your cat has a bladder problem, here's some DRY food" replace bladder with kidney, constipation, ketones, idiopathic cystitis.... you name it.
Maybe make a thread asking if its with or without prescription, in different parts of the world? Is it medical equipment and or ilegal to ship? Just a thought :nailbiting:
 
Luxe said:
EXACTLY!! she said he should be negative for two weeks. Im not doing subq fluids at home. I asked about it today and they said its a short term fix. But if its helping him feel better and stay flushed idk why they wouldnt just give it to me. The money isnt a problem
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You NEED a freaking short term fix! One thing has to give to break the circle of... you know, but I can't write it...

Do they understand you're willing to do everything? It's an opportunity for the vet to learn, do something good, take a chance. What else?

I don't know about cats, but in humans bad teeth can lead to heart disease and problems.
 
SashaV said:
You NEED a freaking short term fix! One thing has to give to break the circle of... you know, but I can't write it...

Do they understand you're willing to do everything? It's an opportunity for the vet to learn, do something good, take a chance. What else?

I don't know about cats, but in humans bad teeth can lead to heart disease and problems.
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I agree, they should be able to put him on subq fluids and prescribe an antibiotic to help get him to the point where they can do a dental.
 
Luxe said:
I would totally give it a try. Right now we've been doing the bone broth which he loves. He was drinking a lot of water on his own most days but peeing it right out
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I actually just saw that has glucose in it. So since hes an unregulated diabetic im not sure
 
I've been
Critter Mom said:
I wonder whether you might be able to help OJ's fluid intake by offering him water flavoured with light chicken broth (made by poaching a chicken breast in about 1-1½ pints of water), either mixed into his food to make a slurry or used to flavour the water in his drinking bowl? It helped me increase Saoirse's fluid intake.

Also, my civvie, Lúnasa, is at CKD stage III. Vets in the UK aren't big on home sub-qs but I manage to help her keep hydrated by giving her about 50ml of water flavoured with some of the liquid from a pouch of Sheba cat soup (3 servings a day - she's on a dry diet, unfortunately :( ). She monsters the stuff, something for which I am truly grateful. (NB: The soup is not low carb - c. 17%.)


Mogs
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i've been doing bone broth. We tried one of the fancy feast broths a couple weeks ago and it instantly made him throw up. I just ordered something called virbac rebound recuperation. It says its good for keeping ckd patients hydrated so Im hoping it will do the same for him since he's drinking a lot just peeing it all right out
 
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