Unfortunately our 10 year old rag doll has F.D.

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bimmrr

bimmrr

Member Since 2018
Asked a question about using Purina DM Diabetic wet food as have seen a lot of back and forth on if it is worth the extra money and already have one reply back - thank you.

Here's what we have - 10 year old rag doll named Carolina. She's spayed and always been a big girl, weighed 19.2 pounds a year ago, maybe 18 year before. Have been concerned that she was ravenous all the time and urinating a lot for about past 6 months but since we were dealing with hurricanes coming and going down here did not get her into the vet until last week - live in coastal South Carolina. Of course been reading online on what she might have and figured it was either feline diabetes or feline hypothroidism (sp?) . Well she has feline diabetes. Her blood sugar was 319 and her urine count was also high. But worse part she has lost 7.2 pounds in a year, suspect in the last 6 months. She has such a thick coat you really can't tell although she did lose her sagging belly so that should have been a hint. Insulin shots are really not an alternative for us as this cat is very aggressive and bites like a great white. Both my wife and I have had serious cat bite infections from her to the extent of doctor visits for shots, etc. She can be sweet but unfortunately mean with the biting if not happy and we can't even get her to the vet without sedating her which used to require dissolving a pill in water and using a syringe with no needle and trying to get some into her mouth. Have had to do that for two hurricanes in past 3 years and usually only get enough to slow her down enough to get in a carrier.

Bottom line,if we could give her insulin shots we certainly would, but know she will not allow us to so for now going with the Purina DM diabetic wet food at least twice a day and maybe going to try their dry food since she has always had dry food available to eat out of bowl at her convenience. Now I know about how bad dry food is on cats but never knew that before. Our vet is looking into the oral insulin but not too convinced it works well for cats so not sure about that. For now she is doing okay, still purrs a lot, sits with us, but you can tell when she probably doesn't feel great. She is urinating two or three times a day but not as much as she was a month or so ago and defecating at least once daily. Our vet wants us to see if she starts to put some weight back on using the Purina food and does not want us to give her the Fancy Feast Classic she has eaten since a kitten. I know it costs more but if it helps her with the diabetes we don't care but at same time if the experience of those on this forum it doesn't make any difference I'll just feed her more of the FF.

We want to make her as comfortable as possible and do not want her to suffer and hopefully the change in diet will prolong her life. Any advice will really be appreciated.
Thanks, Mike & Patty
 
Unfortunately the oral diabetes meds don't work well in cats. There are other people here on the forum that have trained difficult, aggressive (in some cases semi-feral) cats to accept injections. As far as thick fur goes, having a spot shaved if/when you decide to attempt insulin can be very helpful.

Before you rule out insulin completely I suggest you post here to ask specifically for advice on dealing with a fractious cat who needs insulin. A change to low carb wet food (under 10% carbs as fed) is a good place to start but untreated diabetes will make her feel ill and susceptible to a number of serious complications. Let this news percolate for a bit. It's surprising what you can accomplish once your mind is made up - we've seen it happen often here. :)
 
In my signature, I have a link to the cat food database compiled by Dr Lisa Pierson (of catinfo.org). It will allow you to filter by desired criteria. Dr Pierson recommends, "start with protein minimum of 40, fat maximum of 50, carb max of 10, and for cats with kidney issues....phos less than 300." Though 10% is the max carbs recommended, most of us find it necessary to have foods that are even lower than that. A lot of people here feed low-carb FF to their cats. If she already knows and loves it, you can absolutely keep feeding it to her! There is no reason to switch to the DM.

While the wet DM has only 6% carbs, the dry is much higher. So, if you feel that you must keep feeding her some dry food, that would not be the best choice. You might consider Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein chicken. It has between 4 and 5% carbs. (There is also a food called Young Again Zero that has only trace carbs, but it has been known to cause soft, stinky poop or even diarrhea for many cats.)

It would be great if her diabetes could be controlled by diet, but unfortunately, that is often not the case. So, if you go to a low-carb diet, and her glucose remains high, she is going to need insulin. I agree with Kris that you should seek advice here in dealing with aggressive cats. It can be done. Sometimes, Feliway plugins can help. So, maybe that is one thing you could try. Please keep in mind that we pretty much all start out overwhelmed and thinking this is going to be impossible.. even if we do not have an aggressive cat. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge here, and pretty much anything can be overcome.
 
IMG_0828 (1).jpg Sure - taken this morning !
 
She's beautiful! Please dont rule out insulin/shots. My Katie is very similar, sweet but has a bit of feral in her. She has bitten me and is very hard to deal with. I NEVER thought in a million years I could give her injections or test her. I thought it was impossible.
Like others, I let food help me. Is there a low carb treat that she absolutely loves? You could possibly give her a shot & tests while eating a special treat. Have you tried freeze dried chicken? I have never seen a cat that didn't go crazy for freeze dried chicken.
My girl is a lovebug also but quite fractious, and I could not do her injections any other way. I call it "chicken and a shot" :)

When she was first diagnosed, I never thought I would be able to get the shots into her. The first week was horrible, chasing her around, trying to find a good time, place to do it, and every time I touched her to would swat at me, scream and run off. Add the anxiety never giving injections before and unsure if I was even doing it right...oh what mess! You can practice the injecting to make yourself a bit quicker and more comfortable with that aspect of it (I used a stuffed animal)

I manage Katie's 2x daily injection (by myself) with this routine- before her meal and after her test, I announced it's time for "chicken and a shot".
I prepare the shot, crumble up freeze dried chicken on a plate and set it on the counter (our "shot spot). WHILE she is eating her treat, I do the injection.
It became a routine and she expects it. I do the same for tests (different spot, the living room chair is the "test" spot).
I always choose the same shot for shooting, the same spot for testing, and don't chase her around. On the rare occasion she refuses to get up to the "spot", I placed her there and immediately give her the chicken and shot or test. Most of the time she waiting in the "spot" for it. I think having a "shot spot" and /or "test spot" (giving the shot in one place of the house w/treat) all the time is better. They begin to learn that's the only place it happens and they get a treat, and they aren't fearful of you every time you get them near in between shots & tests. If you inject them in random spots, they never when to expect it and become fearful. It becomes an unpleasant experience. You want it to be pleasant, and the treat makes it a much happier experience...a reward of sorts. She runs to her spots now, she beats me there and is waiting. It's funny she will let me poke her with needles but I still can't trim her nails without putting a muzzle on her.

Hope this helps. Try using a treat she absolutely loves and cannot resist. Dont wait until you get insulin, start giving treats in a certain spot NOW. Get the routine started. While she is eating pet her where you would be injecting. Praise her when she's done eating. Do it a several times a day to get her used to it. You can do it!! We are all here to help you.
 
Frosty was a biter too, especially if restrained for testing, or touched in a way he didn’t like. Because he got treats after testing and shots, he would also come running when i would open up the test strip container. I think it would take some practice.

Have you considered giving her a shot while she is eating so she doesn’t notice? I used to test and give shots to Frosty while he ate before he got more used to it.
 
My Sammy is a biter when stressed and when we got the diagnosis in September I thought there was no way I could test and shoot him. I landed in the ER last year on IV antibiotics after a hand bite. Of course he picks up on my fear, and my first few attempts to test were scary failures. Then I got creative and devised protective gear for my hands and wrists that left my fingers free. That has made all the difference! He has learned to understand that tests and shots are rewarded with treats, and rarely even nips during the process. But if he does, I'm literally covered. I look ridiculous with two sets of leg warmers scrunched up on my arms and hands, but I put them on for every session. Good luck with your spirited kitty!
 
Thank you everyone for your replies ! We're going to see how Carolina does and might try the shots if she starts to go down hill quicker than our vet anticipates. Lot of unknowns right now and dealing with a "biter" makes it all more difficult. I do have a pair of welder's gloves so maybe could use them !

BTW - Carolina loves the Purina DM as just about inhales it. Our vet recommended giving her one whole can in the evening around 6 PM and then next morning she gets us up around 5:30 am so will give her half a can then and then other half around noon. Vet did not want us to mix the Fancy Feast in with the Purina DM, said it would alter the benefits of the DM we now have her on.
 
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Fancy Feast or Friskies pates are better. I have a friend that just switched her cat to Fancy Feast pate and that was enough to get her in remission without insulin. Your cat's numbers are in the medium range and a food change alone might work. If I recall Purina DM isn't that great when it comes to carb content. Try Fancy Feast or Friskies for a few weeks and see what happens but my all means stay away from dry, only a few high end $$$ brands make the cut when it comes to carbs.
 
Carolina has been on Fancy Feast forever along with the dry food which she stopped eating almost same time she was diagnosed with diabetes. I am really torn as to what to do on the wet food issue.
Our vet is not a long time vet for us, just one we have taken her to for last couple of years and who did the diagnosis. I certainly trust the vet's diagnosis, but she is also selling us the Purina cat food. Would certainly be easier to keep her on the Fancy Feast and maybe mix in some of the Friskies Pate for a change as she has always been picky.
 
DM wet food: the pate is 6% carbs as fed and the Savory Selects chunks is 10%. The dry version is at least 14% if not more.
 
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