Unfamiliar territory.. advice appreciated...

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Anyname

Anyname

Member Since 2010
LB's numbers are dropping fast. If you check his SS change to WORLD to see the colours - just tested him as I'm heading off to bed; 50.4. He ate a whole tin of FF after pre PMPS BG test (7.30pm) - his reading was then 93. I've given him a small dish of raw chicken with 8 cat biscuits (science brand) for supper. Now I'm worried about whether I should try to wake up to check him thru the night. I gave him 2 units tonite (a reduction of .4 of a unit) because his pre PMPS reading was low. But he's dropped to 50.4 in 3 hours even after a meal and a reduced amount. So does it go quite quickly once their pancreas picks up? How necessary is it that I set the alarm to wake in the night to check him?
 
Frankly, I wouldn't go to bed when LB is at 50. If you haven't yet, I would give him a tsp of HC gravy or mix a drop of karo with a tsp of LC food. Then I would put on a pot of coffee and test him again in 30 minutes. Even though you reduced the dose, that's a low BG for this early in the cycle. You are likely to need to test and give food for some time yet.
 
thanx, I'm still up. I wish it was one of those nites that I felt lively and awake - can't think of anything worse than coffee at this time of night. I'll test him again in 30 mins. I've got glucose powder but will wait to see what his number is in 30 mins. He's eaten again since the 50 number. But the way he is I'm not optimistic he will have risen much. Will see. thanx
 
Also, I'm wondering if the 50 is at +3 or +4? Your SS shows it at +4?

If you didn't give gravy or glucose, please test in 20 minutes, he may be continuing to drop.
 
When Moonie drops like that, I test every 15-20 min. I see you shot a 94 before, but this time you need to be vigilant!-Sorry, I have had sleepless nites, we all do, but tonite you need to keep an eye out--Considering their nadir is usually about +6, you will need to test till he comes up..
I suggest feeding only HC food or MC food, as the karo gives a sharp boost, and the dry food, the same. If he needs it, by all means--Laurie is right the carbs are in the gravy!!
You really need to keep monitoring..Please post next number when you can...
 
This territory will become more familiar with you when you get more accustomed to it. I, too, would get checks on him every 15-20 minutes, and at the very max 30 minutes. MC food would help slow the drop. I've done MC food at night before, and that's because I'm not a night owl (I get up before 5:30 every morning to get Blackie tested and shot on time LOL).

I'm looking forward to seeing what his # is this a.m. You're going to do fine. :) If anything, I'll be around for a good part of the day since Blackie's showing signs of a possible possible decrease today. :) So, you and I will be in the same boat. :)
 
OK, so by the time I got the replies I tested 45 mins later. He now 70. I got the 50 @ +3 - We shoot at 7.30pm every nite. BG test just before. So he was 94 PMPS, followed by = shot, followed by 50 @ 10.30, followed by more food, followed by 70 at 10.45pm.

I can give him some milk with glucose in it??? I don't know how that works over the long term. I don't know what MC stands for. I don't think he will eat anything much for a while but he would drink a little bit of milk with glucose. I fed him raw chicken at 10.30pm. How long would glucose last?
 
I think I've always been confused about the time after PMPS. I guess it was +4 that I got the 50, but it was exactly 3 hours since PMPS coz it was 10.30pm. I'm going to have to sort this out in the future.
 
He's risen enough now that I would not give the glucose...it gives a quick rise, but won't keep him up there. I only use something like that when the numbers are in the 40s. It looks like the food you gave him brought him up, but you need to keep testing because he's not at nadir yet, so he could go back down. I would give him a tsp of food now if he will eat it, see if you can get him to surf where he is...70 is great!

MC=medium carb, somewhere between 10-18% carbs on J&B's list. HC=high carb, above 18%...we use the gravy instead of glucose to help boost low numbers because it stays with the cat a little longer. What is the carb % of the food you are using?
 
Anyname said:
I think I've always been confused about the time after PMPS. I guess it was +4 that I got the 50, but it was exactly 3 hours since PMPS coz it was 10.30pm. I'm going to have to sort this out in the future.
Click to expand...
PMPS is like 0, 7:30pm...+1 would be 8:30pm, +2=9:30pm, etc, +3=10:30pm, etc. Does that make sense?

Oops edited times....I had the PS time wrong...
 
I've been giving him raw chicken mostly - no carbs. I've got tins of fancy feast - chicken/tuna/trout. 4.8% carbs - and I've got biscuits. He would eat them no problem and I could go to bed. But that's a cop out and won't get him into remission. I think he's doing so well lately coz of the diet - hardly a carb in sight. It's nearly all raw chicken and raw fish. Plus one FF daily. The vet said he didn't think LB would have a hypo attack on Lantus. He's had a number of lows. 38 one time and he was fine. He's a very big cat - 18 to 19lbs. He seems to always let us know when he's low. He's just wandered past me to go to bed. Mmmm, I should be so lucky!
 
not sure if i'm clarifying or confusing the issue here, but visually this might help: if you shoot at 7:30 pm

pmps = 730 pm
+ 1 = 830 pm
+ 2 = 930 pm
+3 = 1030 pm

and so on for every hour following THE SHOT...up to +12, when it's time for his amps, starting the new cycle
when i began, i made the mistake of measuring the + numbers from the am reading and not from shot time...which wasnt a big issue because the whole process of test, feed, shoot occurred within about 10 minutes, but it got me really confused timewise

LB sounds like he's giving you some action!

celi & binks
 
::::PMPS is like 0, 7:30pm...+1 would be 8:30pm, +2=9:30pm, etc, +3=10:30pm, etc. Does that make sense?

YES!!! Thank you - I never understood it.
 
Your pre-shot time is when the clock starts over (providing you actually give a shot). So, just like you noted, +1 is one hour after your shot. It's much easier to talk in +hours since we're all in different time zones.

I will not go to sleep if numbers are not securely in a safe range -- in other words, numbers are firmly stable and above 50. You don't want to be in a spot where numbers drop below 50 while you're asleep. Of course, you can always set an alarm and get up and test if you're good about not sleeping through the alarm.

Do you happen to know the carb count on the biscuits? I would not feed anything dry. It tends to not bring numbers up quickly and the stuff lasts way too long. I've never used powdered glucose. A bit of corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc. will all work quickly to bring numbers up fast and is out of the system fast. What that means is that you have to keep testing to make sure numbers don't drop once the syrup wears off.

Also, and I think I mentioned this before, if you are feeding raw, you need to add supplements unless the raw is only a snack. Could you clarify?
 
The biscuits are Hills Science for fur balls. Can't find the carbs on label. Everything else but. But I know they're not ideal and we only give them when absolutely necessary. Supplements is a problem. Yes feel guilty. He has one FF tin per day. I'm confident about the powdered glucose but don't know how long it would last in his system. It would be longer acting than corn syrup/honey. What about just plain milk? Does that do anything? He now 72 @ +5.
 
Thanking everyone for their help. I'm off to bed. I just offered a Fancy Feast meal and he ate it as if his life depended on it. I'm sure he will be fine now.
 
I wouldn't feed dry food unless it's your only option, as Sienne said it really doesn't help you boost low numbers quickly enough and hangs around too long.

As far a hypo, a cat can go hypo on any insulin. Lantus is no exception. Just because he has gone as low as 38 with no symptoms doesn't mean he wouldn't be symptomatic at 37...cats can go from no symptoms to serious hypo very quickly! Please don't get complacent about low numbers...that's dangerous. When he is below 50, you need to take action to get his numbers up.

As Sienne said, the raw diet is very good for cats, but you need to add supplements to it. The FF you are feeding is good, within the low carb range. I would suggest you get some cans of high carb food in the house to use for boosting low numbers, and some corn syrup for emergencies...the syrups are easier/safer to use when you have to rub it on the gums. I haven't used glucose. Do you have a hypo kit set up?

It looks like his numbers are up, and he ate again...I would stay up for one more test, but if you must go to sleep, hopefully the food will keep him up.
 
Many cats are lactose intolerant. If you gave milk mixed with anything, you may end up having to deal with diarrhea or some other GI problems which is likely more than what you would bargain for.

Unless the labeling is different in Australia, none of the cat food labels contain the carb count. Much to my surprise, Hills does has the carb count on their website - 28.3% - so it's way far from ideal. If you're concerned about hairballs, any type of oil (fish oil, vegetable oil, olive oil) will work as will vasoline. You might want to post on Health and ask about alternatives for dealing with hairballs.

When feeding HC, you don't want something that is long acting. You want to use the gravy from cat food because it will quickly raise numbers and be metabolized quickly so you're not having to deal with food inflated numbers for the next cycle -- which is often what happens with dry food. The down side is that you do need to monitor closely since numbers come back down as the HC wears off.
 
AMPs 160. Little Boy 22/10 - fine thru night and no early morning feed.


Subject: NESTLE Purina Reply -



Thank you for contacting the Ask Purina team.

Below is a list of Fancy Feast and the Carb % in the product.
Description Carb %
FF Ocean Whitefish 4.8 %
FF Chicken & Giblets Pate 3.8%
FF Beefy Chunks 4.8%
FF Sl Salmon & Chicken 4.8%
FF Flaked Trout 3.8%
FF Sl Chicken Hearts & Liver 4.8%
FF Turkey Casserole 4.8%
FF Roast Chicken 4.8%
FF Fine Cut Turkey 4.8%
FF Grilled Tuna Prime Filet 3.8%
FF Grilled Turkey Prime Filet 3.8%
FF Grilled Chicken Prime Filet 3.8%
FF Cod Sole & Shrimp 2.0%
FF Roast Turkey 4.8%
FF Flaked Chicken & Tuna 4.8 %
FF Flaked Salmon & Ocean Whitefish 4.8%
FF Flaked Tuna & Mackerel 4.8%
FF Grilled Prime Salmon Filet 4.0%
FF Tender Salmon Marinade 4.8%
FF Tender Chicken Marinade 4.8%
FF Tender Beef Marinade 4.8%
FF Gourmet Seafood Feast 4.8%
FF Sliced Chicken Casserole 4.8%
FF Tender Tuna Marinade 4.5%
FF Turkey Marinade 4.8%

The Fancy Feast will be lower again as it is just what is naturally occurring in the meat/ protein source. no other ingredients are added to the tin.

For any advice on caring for your pets, please Ask Purina on 1800-738-238 or www.purina.com.au.

Best Regards,

Terrie Fraietta
Pet Care Advisor
The Ask PURINA PetCare Team
PURINA, Your Pet, Our Passion
 
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