Unexpected low GREEN out of nowhere

[Toeknee]

Hi all, Buddy's numbers getting down into yellows at or near nadir lately and seems like slowly going down. Have been holding steady at 3.5IU for a few days and all of a sudden he went from typical reading of 24 at 8am , dosed at 10:30am and at(+3.75) 2:16pm he was at 3.3. Was acting a little spooked so I gave him 5 Temptations and some kibble but he doesn't care for kibble anymore so I gave him some raw beef. He has since calmed down and went for a nap and I think he is going to be okay. Just tested again(+6) 4:30pm reading now 15.4.My question is does anyone have an idea why his numbers just dropped so abruptly ? I almost never test beore 4 hours and was expecting somewhere between 12 and 16. Food hs been consistent (meat, tuna ). Drank a lot more water yesterday through overnight but not peeing at same rate. Otherwise he has been better lately. Any info appreciated this was a close call. Will this cause a bounce ? Should I drop to 3 IU ?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

You definitely want to reduce the dose. Doses are reduced by 0.25u. Buddy's new dose would be 3.25u. If you've not seen it, this is a link to the dosing information for Caninsulin.

You can expect a bounce. His numbers are already on the way up by +6.

I'm going to put on my being a pain in the butt hat....
Caninsulin is a fast acting insulin that can easily do what you saw today -- drop blood glucose (BG) numbers hard and fast. However, we don't know how hard and fast because the numbers aren't on your spreadsheet. From your post, it sounds like his AMPS was 24 (432). Please, put your test results on your spreadsheet! Otherwise, in looking at Buddy's spreadsheet, it appears that you're not testing before giving insulin. In general, if you don't test before shooting, you have no idea if it's safe to give your cat insulin. This is even more the case given how Caninsulin works. If you inadvertently gave Buddy a shot without knowing his numbers were lower than expected, he could have a hypoglycemic episode. Further, it doesn't look like you're getting any PM tests on a regular basis. Given what you saw today, not getting any PM tests is dangerous especially since many cats experience lower numbers at night.

 

[Chrispooky12]

Hi all, Buddy's numbers getting down into yellows at or near nadir lately and seems like slowly going down. Have been holding steady at 3.5IU for a few days and all of a sudden he went from typical reading of 24 at 8am , dosed at 10:30am and at(+3.75) 2:16pm he was at 3.3. Was acting a little spooked so I gave him 5 Temptations and some kibble but he doesn't care for kibble anymore so I gave him some raw beef. He has since calmed down and went for a nap and I think he is going to be okay. Just tested again(+6) 4:30pm reading now 15.4.My question is does anyone have an idea why his numbers just dropped so abruptly ? I almost never test beore 4 hours and was expecting somewhere between 12 and 16. Food hs been consistent (meat, tuna ). Drank a lot more water yesterday through overnight but not peeing at same rate. Otherwise he has been better lately. Any info appreciated this was a close call. Will this cause a bounce ? Should I drop to 3 IU ?

Hi there I'm not experienced enough to give dosing advise as to whether you should give Buddy a reduction. I looked at your spreadsheet & that 59 that you got would mean to reduce his dose. I don't see on there what dosing protocol you are using though? I'm not familiar with caninsulin insulin either, but he is fairly newly diagnosed. When you get a number like that the first thing you do is test again to make sure he is truly that low. If he is you give a tsp of medium or high carb food & test again in 20mins, if he's still low you repeat the feed & test. You do this until he is in safe numbers. I'm going to tag a couple of people & hopefully they will be on before your shot time so they can tell you whether to decrease or not @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Larry and Kitties. I'm also going to tag @Diane Tyler's Mom to give you a list of what you need for a hypo kit, Buddy's in Canada Diane.

 

[Chrispooky12]

You definitely want to reduce the dose. Doses are reduced by 0.25u. Buddy's new dose would be 3.25u. If you've not seen it, this is a link to the dosing information for Caninsulin.

You can expect a bounce. His numbers are already on the way up by +6.

I'm going to put on my being a pain in the butt hat....
Caninsulin is a fast acting insulin that can easily do what you saw today -- drop blood glucose (BG) numbers hard and fast. However, we don't know how hard and fast because the numbers aren't on your spreadsheet. From your post, it sounds like his AMPS was 24 (432). Please, put your test results on your spreadsheet! Otherwise, in looking at Buddy's spreadsheet, it appears that you're not testing before giving insulin. In general, if you don't test before shooting, you have no idea if it's safe to give your cat insulin. This is even more the case given how Caninsulin works. If you inadvertently gave Buddy a shot without knowing his numbers were lower than expected, he could have a hypoglycemic episode. Further, it doesn't look like you're getting any PM tests on a regular basis. Given what you saw today, not getting any PM tests is dangerous especially since many cats experience lower numbers at night.

Oh good you are on, we cross posted.

 

[Toeknee]

You definitely want to reduce the dose. Doses are reduced by 0.25u. Buddy's new dose would be 3.25u. If you've not seen it, this is a link to the dosing information for Caninsulin.

You can expect a bounce. His numbers are already on the way up by +6.

I'm going to put on my being a pain in the butt hat....
Caninsulin is a fast acting insulin that can easily do what you saw today -- drop blood glucose (BG) numbers hard and fast. However, we don't know how hard and fast because the numbers aren't on your spreadsheet. From your post, it sounds like his AMPS was 24 (432). Please, put your test results on your spreadsheet! Otherwise, in looking at Buddy's spreadsheet, it appears that you're not testing before giving insulin. In general, if you don't test before shooting, you have no idea if it's safe to give your cat insulin. This is even more the case given how Caninsulin works. If you inadvertently gave Buddy a shot without knowing his numbers were lower than expected, he could have a hypoglycemic episode. Further, it doesn't look like you're getting any PM tests on a regular basis. Given what you saw today, not getting any PM tests is dangerous especially since many cats experience lower numbers at night.

Ok I will drop by 0.25 got it. I updated spreadshhet now. I have about 5 on there and kept updating the Google one but linked the Excel one. Google drive is still an issue for me.
I tested 2 hours PS and that is listed +9 after PMPS so didn't feel need to test again before AMPS as readings and dosing have been relatively consistent for last few cycles. Any reason you can think of why a drop from a 12 to a 3 on same dose ? Been eating normanlly it seems. I use 12 because I have hit 12 at +4 recently but haven't up dose. So much for slow and steady it seems.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Sienne has already weighed in on this and the new reduced dose is 3.25 units. Your tips are very good, Christina. Strictly looking at the spreadsheet, he was not in danger this time because he did not drop below 50 (2.7). So it is not a hypoglycemic event, but it would be wise to keep retesting to make sure he wasn’t dropping further since we are dealing with a harsh and sometimes unpredictable insulin like caninsulin. Having said that, you are assumedly following SLGS dosing method which requires reductions if kitty drops below 90. I hope things will go well on the new reduced dose. It would be very good if you could speak with your vet about switching to a more cat-friendly insulin like glargine or ProZinc.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

going to tag @Diane Tyler's Mom to give you a list of what you need for a hypo kit, Buddy's in Canada Diane.

Hypo Kit I'm pretty sure you can get these in Canada



Some Honey

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Grav
20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

 

[Wendy&Neko]

If you don't want to feed the Fancy Feast gravy lovers, there are other high carb options. My girl was raw fed and allergic to wheat, which the Gravy Lovers has in it. You can add honey or syrup to his regular low carb food, or there are some options with potato for carbs (First Mate, Weruva Cats in the Kitchen pouches for example).

 

[Toeknee]

Sienne has already weighed in on this and the new reduced dose is 3.25 units. Your tips are very good, Christina. Strictly looking at the spreadsheet, he was not in danger this time because he did not drop below 50 (2.7). So it is not a hypoglycemic event, but it would be wise to keep retesting to make sure he wasn’t dropping further since we are dealing with a harsh and sometimes unpredictable insulin like caninsulin. Having said that, you are assumedly following SLGS dosing method which requires reductions if kitty drops below 90. I hope things will go well on the new reduced dose. It would be very good if you could speak with your vet about switching to a more cat-friendly insulin like glargine or ProZinc.

Thanks for the advice. I spoke to a pharmacist on Friday and inquired about Lantus I think, and she told me a prescription is not required and it costs the same as the Caninsulin I just picked up last week from the vet. I will almost certainly make the switch but am hoping to make use of the full vial of canine insulin first. I need to do some reading about Lantus now before making a move.
I wasn't following a proper protocol at least at the beginning as I was just in panic mode and assumed regulation could be achieved in a couple of weeks. Now he has gotten better and I am thinking more clearly about how to manage this.

 

[Toeknee]

Hi there I'm not experienced enough to give dosing advise as to whether you should give Buddy a reduction. I looked at your spreadsheet & that 59 that you got would mean to reduce his dose. I don't see on there what dosing protocol you are using though? I'm not familiar with caninsulin insulin either, but he is fairly newly diagnosed. When you get a number like that the first thing you do is test again to make sure he is truly that low. If he is you give a tsp of medium or high carb food & test again in 20mins, if he's still low you repeat the feed & test. You do this until he is in safe numbers. I'm going to tag a couple of people & hopefully they will be on before your shot time so they can tell you whether to decrease or not @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Larry and Kitties. I'm also going to tag @Diane Tyler's Mom to give you a list of what you need for a hypo kit, Buddy's in Canada Diane.

Thanks for the advice and the tags. I was ready with honey but thankfully it never came to that.