Uncontrollable Hunger

[Rachel Paxton]

Hi, I’m new to the forum.

I took on a rescue cat in late December. It was obvious he was unwell as soon as I got him home and after a vet check it turns out he’s diabetic. The rescue centre must have known but pretended to be surprised.

His insulin was raised weekly to 3ui. He improved and had gained over a kg in weight. The vet mentioned even going to 4 but after another glucose test at the vets it was obvious that his glucose readings were high due to stress. (The cat carrier handle broke). So it was agreed I’d test at home and return in a month.

My vet said to feed 30mins after his insulin injections (Caninsulin) whereas when looking online it seems that a lot of people Feed first or at the same time as the injection.???

Because he was still very thirsty and hungry and had diarrhoea I did up his dose to 4 for a while but when I started home testing I had a couple of scares where the nadir is dangerously low. So I have gone back to 3 where his ravenous hunger remains. He’s probably eating about 250g of cooked chicken breast morning and night (500g total). He’s not drinking quite as much but is probably urinating at least 2-3pints a day.
I honestly don’t know where to go from here.
I am trying to keep vet visits to a minimum due to the rising cost of keeping him alive. I hadn’t budgeted for this and didn’t have pet insurance because he was diagnosed a couple of days after going him.

This is heartbreaking

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

Congratulations on home testing! I'm including a link on helping us to help you. There are instructions in the post on how to add information to your signature and on how to set up your spreadsheet. The former give us information so we don't keep asking you the same questions over and over again. The spreadsheet will give you a place to log your cat's progress and allow us to follow along and lend a hand.

Your kitty is going to be hungry all the time until his diabetes is a bit better regulated. If blood glucose (BG) numbers are not in the normal range, it means that the end product of metabolism -- glucose -- is floating around in the blood stream rather than getting into the cells. If the glucose is in the blood, your cat isn't getting as much nourishment as he would ordinarily from what you're feeding. As the numbers come down, more glucose is in the cells and the hunger abates. And, as you noted, your cat will gain weight.

What are you feeding your cat? The cooked chicken is fine as a supplement or a treat but it's not a nutritionally complete diet. Cats need a range of supplements (e.g., taurine) in their diet in order to remain healthy. The chicken is great in that it's low in carbohydrates and you do want to be feeding low carb food. We consider low carb to be under 10% and a canned or raw food diet is preferable to dry food. This is a chart of most of the canned foods available in the US along with their nutritional composition. (I suspect you may be in Canada and we have food charts for Canadian members if you need that.) If you want more information on feline nutrition, I've also like a site with great information.

Your vet has not provided good information about when to feel your cat. The sequence of when you feed depends on the insulin you're using. Caninsulin is a faster acting insulin. You really need to feed your cat 20 - 30 minutes BEFORE you give an insulin shot. Caninsulin can drop numbers hard and fast and the food will buffer the effect of the insulin. This is a link to our beginners guide for Caninsulin.

Just a word about your vet's choice of insulin. Caninsulin was originally developed for dogs but it is also often prescribed for cats. Because of cats’ faster metabolism, Caninsulin (Vetsulin) may not last in the system a full 12 hours. Typically, it may remain effective for 8 - 12 hours. How long it lasts depends on the individual cat. The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) no longer recommends Caninsulin for the treatment of feline diabetes due to is short duration. They recommend either Prozinc or glargine (Lantus, Semglee, Basaglar).

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi and welcome! Don't be heartbroken. You have found your lifeline here!

the experts here have decades of combined knowledge managing diabetic cats and even helping them get to remission! I am new to this, my cat was just diagnosed on 1/5/22. I have read a lot of similar stories to yours in the past couple months on this forum and with help from members here and their sage advice on trying different insulin or dosing methods, those cats were helped! And their caregivers' sanity

My cat Hendrick is on Lantus and I feel like it is a great choice, it is known as a Depot Insulin -- is much more gentle on the kitty and works over an extended time -- this link has more info

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/

 

[Wendy&Neko]

My vet had me start Caninsulin for my kitty Neko. She also was ravenous all the time, even up to 5 units of Caninsulin. That insulin doesn't last as long as some of the newer insulins (Prozinc, Lantus, Levemir), so she was crazy hungry at dinner time. I switched to Lantus which definitely made a difference.

If you want to save spending money at the vet, doing your own home testing is a great way to do it. I means you don't have to take your kitty in as often, you can do your own testing and curves, and with our help we can teach you how to do dose changes.

 

[Rachel Paxton]

Welcome to FDMB!

Congratulations on home testing! I'm including a link on helping us to help you. There are instructions in the post on how to add information to your signature and on how to set up your spreadsheet. The former give us information so we don't keep asking you the same questions over and over again. The spreadsheet will give you a place to log your cat's progress and allow us to follow along and lend a hand.

Your kitty is going to be hungry all the time until his diabetes is a bit better regulated. If blood glucose (BG) numbers are not in the normal range, it means that the end product of metabolism -- glucose -- is floating around in the blood stream rather than getting into the cells. If the glucose is in the blood, your cat isn't getting as much nourishment as he would ordinarily from what you're feeding. As the numbers come down, more glucose is in the cells and the hunger abates. And, as you noted, your cat will gain weight.

What are you feeding your cat? The cooked chicken is fine as a supplement or a treat but it's not a nutritionally complete diet. Cats need a range of supplements (e.g., taurine) in their diet in order to remain healthy. The chicken is great in that it's low in carbohydrates and you do want to be feeding low carb food. We consider low carb to be under 10% and a canned or raw food diet is preferable to dry food. This is a chart of most of the canned foods available in the US along with their nutritional composition. (I suspect you may be in Canada and we have food charts for Canadian members if you need that.) If you want more information on feline nutrition, I've also like a site with great information.

Your vet has not provided good information about when to feel your cat. The sequence of when you feed depends on the insulin you're using. Caninsulin is a faster acting insulin. You really need to feed your cat 20 - 30 minutes BEFORE you give an insulin shot. Caninsulin can drop numbers hard and fast and the food will buffer the effect of the insulin. This is a link to our beginners guide for Caninsulin.

Just a word about your vet's choice of insulin. Caninsulin was originally developed for dogs but it is also often prescribed for cats. Because of cats’ faster metabolism, Caninsulin (Vetsulin) may not last in the system a full 12 hours. Typically, it may remain effective for 8 - 12 hours. How long it lasts depends on the individual cat. The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) no longer recommends Caninsulin for the treatment of feline diabetes due to is short duration. They recommend either Prozinc or glargine (Lantus, Semglee, Basaglar).

My vet had me start Caninsulin for my kitty Neko. She also was ravenous all the time, even up to 5 units of Caninsulin. That insulin doesn't last as long as some of the newer insulins (Prozinc, Lantus, Levemir), so she was crazy hungry at dinner time. I switched to Lantus which definitely made a difference.

If you want to save spending money at the vet, doing your own home testing is a great way to do it. I means you don't have to take your kitty in as often, you can do your own testing and curves, and with our help we can teach you how to do dose changes.

Thank you so much. A lot of information there for me to look at. I’ll look in to some alternative foods. I did wonder if it should be 30 mins BEFORE insulin instead of after. I am injecting twice daily 12 hours apart. I am actually in the UK but I will look in to the newer insulins mentioned. Thanks again. Great to have found you.

 

[Rachel Paxton]

Hi and welcome! Don't be heartbroken. You have found your lifeline here!

the experts here have decades of combined knowledge managing diabetic cats and even helping them get to remission! I am new to this, my cat was just diagnosed on 1/5/22. I have read a lot of similar stories to yours in the past couple months on this forum and with help from members here and their sage advice on trying different insulin or dosing methods, those cats were helped! And their caregivers' sanity

My cat Hendrick is on Lantus and I feel like it is a great choice, it is known as a Depot Insulin -- is much more gentle on the kitty and works over an extended time -- this link has more info

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/

Many thanks Hendricks parents! Already feeling more optimistic. Definitely going to see if I can change insulin. Do you inject Hendrick 30mins before his food? and twice daily?
Thanks for the link

 

[Rachel Paxton]

My vet had me start Caninsulin for my kitty Neko. She also was ravenous all the time, even up to 5 units of Caninsulin. That insulin doesn't last as long as some of the newer insulins (Prozinc, Lantus, Levemir), so she was crazy hungry at dinner time. I switched to Lantus which definitely made a difference.

If you want to save spending money at the vet, doing your own home testing is a great way to do it. I means you don't have to take your kitty in as often, you can do your own testing and curves, and with our help we can teach you how to do dose changes.

Thank you Wendy. So glad to have found this forum. I hope I can source this newer insulin in the uk

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

With Lantus (which is now available as a generic/biosimilar -- either Semglee or Basaglar), you do not have to feed your cat well before you shoot. Lantus doesn't start working for roughly 2 hours after an injection (i.e., it's onset begins in approximately 2 hours although it can vary depending on the cat).

(Just an FYI, the GA you may see in our signatures means a cat is a "Guardian Angel" -- the kitty has crossed the Rainbow Bridge and is no longer an earthbound companion. Neko is a GA.)

 

[Rachel Paxton]

With Lantus (which is now available as a generic/biosimilar -- either Semglee or Basaglar), you do not have to feed your cat well before you shoot. Lantus doesn't start working for roughly 2 hours after an injection (i.e., it's onset begins in approximately 2 hours although it can vary depending on the cat).

(Just an FYI, the GA you may see in our signatures means a cat is a "Guardian Angel" -- the kitty has crossed the Rainbow Bridge and is no longer an earthbound companion. Neko is a GA.)

Oh sorry- I didn’t realise about the GA.
What a lovely thought though

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Many thanks Hendricks parents! Already feeling more optimistic. Definitely going to see if I can change insulin. Do you inject Hendrick 30mins before his food? and twice daily?
Thanks for the link

Hendrick gets his insulin twice daily yes. No, we do not inject 30 mins before food, with Lantus you test, feed and shoot, ideally with a 5-15 minute window but of course that varies

with Hendrick being a slower eater, we test, start him eating, and shoot all within a 20-30 minute window. And then he actually usually continues to eat some after the shot. Then we feed 2nd half of shot-time meal an hour later. It's a balancing act to offset the insulin hit and make the drop more gradual.

 

[Rachel Paxton]

Hendrick gets his insulin twice daily yes. No, we do not inject 30 mins before food, with Lantus you test, feed and shoot, ideally with a 5-15 minute window but of course that varies

with Hendrick being a slower eater, we test, start him eating, and shoot all within a 20-30 minute window. And then he actually usually continues to eat some after the shot. Then we feed 2nd half of shot-time meal an hour later. It's a balancing act to offset the insulin hit and make the drop more gradual.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s all sounding quite daunting but I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s all sounding quite daunting but I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it

quite daunting is putting it mildly. I was SO overwhelmed, depressed and downhearted when Hendrick was diagnosed. This forum was like a life preserver tossed to a drowning person...I grabbed that thing and hung on for dear life

now here we are about 2 months later and Hendrick is starting to get regulated, healthy, acting like his old self again!!! Annnnnnnnnnnnnn now I'm gonna need a tissue.