Ultra low carb diet vs carb + insulin

[jgeeky]

Greetings all,

I have a 12-year-old DSH tabby who, seemingly out of nowhere, started walking oddly with a much larger surface of his legs being used this June while we were on vacation. We assumed it was some sort of jumping-related injury that occurred while we were gone, but took him to see the vet after it didn't subside.

At the vet, Ziggy tested with a glucose level around 380. He wasn't starved beforehand and we have no idea when he had last eaten, but the vet thought it was neuropathy from diabetes and put him on four units twice per day of vetsulin u-40 and a prescription w/d food.

What strikes me as odd is that the w/d prescription food seems to be the exact kind of food we would have avoided for an obligate carnivore - low in protein, high in "moisture" and fillers, and reliant on ingredients like corn. I feel like I'm now waiting on a prescription to pay $80/bag a very low-rated food. In addition to that, I'm paying around $50/month for the insulin and around $50 for the syringes. While I'm thankful that the $180 increase in pet costs isn't catastrophic, I only want to continue this if it's the option that will give Ziggy the best quality of life. I'm not so much concerned about the costs (though of course I'm not super happy about them), but I'm concerned about what seems to be an illogical circle of treatment.

And, I suppose here enters my overall question. I've been reading a lot and watching a lot of videos on wet food and keto dry food and I've become critical of the idea of giving our cat a mediocre food that is still high in carbs along with insulin injections to digest those carbs. For a species that is very non-carb-dependent, there must be a better way. I've been reading about wet food options and dry foods like Keto-Kibble (62% protein, 16% fat) which is very very low carb, rather then giving them this w/d food which seems to be full of bad ingredients and low protein.

We travel often and we have other pets in the house. If injections and this w/d food are the best option, so be it. Perhaps it's my lack of information or perhaps I'm over-humanizing this situation. It seems to me that if cats don't have much need for carbs, perhaps it makes more sense to feed them a virtually-carb-free diet rather than giving them what looks like junk food combined with sticking them with sharps twice every day.

 

[MamaMug]

Your hunch about illogical treatment with higher carb w/d diet is spot on. Unfortunately the w/d food is actually much higher carb than most if us on the forum would recommend. There are a fair bit of resources for low carb wet food throughout the board, including this thread with a very helpful values chart for most brands commonly available. I keep a copy of it on my Google drive to double check while I'm at the pet store. There's also a wealth of amazing information available on Dr Lisas website.

While some cats are able to be regulated by diet fairly quickly, that isn't the case for every cat. If you have not yet considered home testing, I would definitely recommend doing so to have a good understanding of how your cat is responding to both food and insulin. It's fairly cheap to get a meter and strips. We use relion prime from walmart. While there is a bit of a learning curve in home testing, it provides you valuable information in how Ziggy is doing. You'll see that most of us have a link in our signature for a spreadsheet that allows you to track the testing results. This helps you to better understand your cats cycle and appropriate dosing, and helps us on the forum be able to give appropriate advice knowing kitties background.

 

[jgeeky]

I very much appreciate the response. I’m trying to not be self-fulfilling in terms of my research, and I never want to assert than I know something that a others don’t. The whole thing just doesn’t make sense to me, and I’m looking for the information that might connect the dots. Or, and I’m happy to have it be presented this way, I’m looking for someone to show me where I’m way off base. I feel like a lot of the explanations that I’ve received are along the same lines of telling a child why the sky is blue.

I’m ready to be wrong. I’m really just out for getting our Ziggy healthy and our lives back on track. I don’t want to stick him twice a day, but that’s such a small price if that’s what he needs to be happy.

I just ordered a home testing kit (alphatrak) and the keto food. I’m drawn away from the keto term from human diets, but I think it makes sense for felines (it may also make sense for humans, I just stray from the fad diet verbage). My thought is that I’ll test glucose for a week with the w/d food and insulin and then maybe try a couple of days on the keto food while testing. I want to explore what makes sense to me, but I don’t want to risk Ziggy’s health and I’m just working off instinct and daily research.

As I mentioned, we have been looking for low ingredient, high protein food throughout our pets’ lives (2 dogs 2 cats). I would never have looked twice at w/d food if it weren’t by prescription. It just doesn’t seem good. But, I’m open to learning and I would really like to get a more scientific explanation.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Hi, MamaMug has given you some good information and I suggest you start a thread in the Main Health forum HERE, so that more members can help shed some light on your concerns and questions.

When you do that, you can link this thread so that members reading can see where you began with your concerns and questions.

The prescription food is not necessary, it's not nutritious, it's expensive and it's too high in carbohydrates for diabetic cats. Most vets are "educated" by the reps and it is not the best choice. The website MamaMug gave you is excellent and provides more detailed information about feline nutrition.

Idjit was on insulin for a very short period of time, and with a diet change to Friskies pates and Fancy Feast classics, which were all below 10% carbs, he is now in remission and does not require insulin. We have now changed his diet to raw protein with a commercial supplement and he is doing very well, in remission for over a year now.

*** However, you do need to change diet gradually, and be testing before changing the diet, as introducing low carb food can significantly lower the blood sugar. You want to prevent a hypoglycemic event, since you are already injecting insulin to lower the blood sugar and you will want to be able to track changes and note if the BG is dropping too fast.

The 4 Units of Vetsulin twice a day is a very high dose, and there is a forum here on the board specifically for Vetsulin users. Sometimes vets prescribe high doses right away to lower the blood sugar immediately, and bouncing occurs.

A bounce happens when numbers drop quickly, drop a lot (like from 454 to 91) or drop low. Your cat's liver and pancreas
react to the change in numbers by dumping a stored form of glucose along with counter-regulatory hormones
into the bloodstream. These cause numbers to spike upward.

It's a cycle that happens when cats are learning to recognize the lower BGs as safe when being regulated to the most appropriate dose, as well as when they are getting a dose that is too high starting out.

Lowering the BG (blood glucose) is first and main option when treating the neuropathy, there is also a B-12 supplement called Methylcobalamin - aka - methyl B-12 (Zobaline) that is very helpful while working to lower the BG.

• Neuropathy: Feline Diabetic Neuropathy (weak back legs)

So, it's not only a question of diet that you are dealing with. It's diet, the insulin & dosage, and learning home testing so that you can see how the insulin is working and keep Ziggy safe.

Please post in the Main Health forum, read the yellow tagged information on the Vetsulin insulin support group forum, and get some input from experienced members that have been taking care of diabetic cats and helping others here on the board for years. The Main Health forum is the most appropriate forum for new members dealing with all aspects of effective diabetic treatment.

It's a steep learning curve at first, but you are already researching, questioning and seem willing to learn to help Ziggy.