uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help needed

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Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

sophie said:
Hello again,
I do not know what a bloated stomach represents in cats; however, in starving children it represents extreme starvation. Combining that with your description of a skeletal appearance of your Baby, if she were mine, I would be tempted to feed her calorie dense, high quality meat, low carb wet food. Perhaps, some kind of meat-only baby food? Don't know the name of such food in UK. This is just my opinion, I do not mean to scare you and trust more experienced members will provide corrections or comments. Good wishes, Sophie
Click to expand...

Be careful with UK baby food.
As the makers wanted to reduce the salt in baby foods, they put in ONION SALT instead

ONION is poisonous to cats!

Years ago I wrote to one maker and they sent me a list of non onion foods. You will be glad to know that tinned mandarine oranges have no onion in them!"

Mary
PS
Check Janet and Binkies food lists. There is a UK section
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

BCP PZI is still being made but I don't know if it is available in the UK. http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_bovine.htm

Beechnut makes a meat based baby food that does not contain anything but meat and meat broth. Do you have this brand in the UK?
Beechnut Turkey and Turkey Broth
Beechnut Beef and Beef Broth
Beechnut Chicken and Chicken Broth

Gerber is another brand but the meat based foods do contain cornstarch for the gravy which may affect blood glucose levels in some cats.
Gerber Chicken and Chicken Gravy
Gerber Turkey and Turkey Gravy

Read the labels of the meat based baby foods that are available in the UK. Do not buy anything that contains garlic, onions, seasonings, etc. You want just meat and water or broth, nothing else.
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Thanks again for all your posts,

Here's where im up to. I've bought a testing kit, and plan to do a full curve of testing sunday when i'm off work, if nothing else it will show what the caninsulin is doing. i've also purchased some methylocbalamin b12 tablets online, hoping these will help with the stomach and wobbly legs.

Also got a number of vets that do 3 different types of insulin, hypurin being one of them. Anyone got any experience of this stuff? would like to hear your thoughts. The vets is quite a way from my home so going to do more searching before settle on that one.

Thanks again, and one more thing: is there a sweet spot on the ear that i need to hit or should blood be drawn quite easily?

Off to work, will check in later.
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

darren said:
Also got a number of vets that do 3 different types of insulin, hypurin being one of them. Anyone got any experience of this stuff? would like to hear your thoughts. The vets is quite a way from my home so going to do more searching before settle on that one.
Click to expand...

It looks like hypurin insulin is a PZI insulin that is available in the UK. I found two types: a bovine protamine zinc one and a bovine lente one.

The PetDiabetes Wiki says The only PZI insulin still available for people is CP Pharma's Hypurin Bovine Protamine Zinc and it must be imported from the UK. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/PZI

I've never used PZI so I can't tell you anything about how that insulin works for cats. You may want to browse the PZI group for info: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24 Members who have used PZI will be along to provide more info.

Thanks again, and one more thing: is there a sweet spot on the ear that i need to hit or should blood be drawn quite easily?
Click to expand...

There is :smile: There's a great picture here: http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/chupie_2006/testingear/sweetspot.jpg

here are more hometesting tips here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Had phone call from vets earlier, her blood tests have shown an increase from 323 to 420. she told me she can increase the dose, or now prescribe me a pzi (dont know the type tho). but 1st she wanted to do a curve on her. I've told her was planning my own for sunday and would it be ok to send results over. vet was fine with this although she did say results can be has much as 30% inaccurate. Just glad of the about turn made by the vets, one less thing to have to worry about.

Was planing to start curve saturday afternoon about 4pm (2 hrs before insulin) and do full 24 hrs. Is this a good starting point?
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

You can start 2 hrs before her insulin, but you don't have too. When we run curves on our cats we usually just start with a test right before their first shot in the moring and then test every two hours up to the test right before their next shot in the evening. so you get a test right before shot 1, then at +2, +4, +6, +8, +10 and then again at +12 or right before their evening shot. If LouLou was spending the day at the vet's to have a curve run they certainly wouldn't being doing it for 24 hours.

The only difference you are going to see in numbers using a human meter than the one used by the vet, assuming they are using a pet only meter is that a human meter runs about 30 points lower than a pet only one. As long as both you and your vet are aware that normal on a human meter is between 40-120 and on a pet only meter normal is between 70-150 you should be fine. All meters have a +/- of 20% so you can test the same drop on blood twice and get two different numbers but both should be within that 20% variance.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

you can start the curve at anytime and test every 2 hours or so.

Personally, I would get the prozinc or PZI now and start testing.

And note that when you take cat to vet's the BG's can be off significantly due to vet stress on the cat. So, testing at home is the best way to get the most accurate BG's.
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Mel, So i dont need to do a 24 hour test then? 12 is sufficient?
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Hillary, yes, she was extremely stressed yesterday, getting moreso every time i take her now. would prefer to do everything from home and save her the anxiety.
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

darren said:
Hi Mel, So i dont need to do a 24 hour test then? 12 is sufficient?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here does a 24 hour curve. A 12 hour curve is sufficient if your cat is cooperative. Don't go nuts trying to test every 2 hours on the dot. As long as you get a couple of blood glucose numbers spread out over a 12 hour period, it's enough :smile:
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Thanks squeem, and for all the other help too.

Wasnt looking forward to the sleep deprivation too much if i'm honest. :-D
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Darren, yes a 12 hour curve is fine! And if you can't get a reading every two hours on the dot, try not to stress too much - it may not be easy the first time you do a curve, for both you and your cat.
Please note also that when Mel talks about variations in BGs she is talking in American terms - here in the UK we use the international version and those are the figures that your vet will expect to see from you.
I believe Simon has given you his phone number but if you'd like another UKer's number let me know, I'm happy to help if need be,
Best of luck
Diana (in Surrey)
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Darren,

If it helps any - don't get stressed over the need to do a curve. If you look at Maui's spreadsheet, you will see that I NEVER did a curve. Rather, I tested her at various times during the cycles and collected my data that way.

What is important is to start testing, get you and the cat comfortable with this, come up with a testing process and there you go.

How's that for alleviating stress......
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Diane and tom,

it would be nice to have another contact number in the uk, in case simon is busy when i encounter a problem. i'm pretty confident about what im doing at the moment, did a little test on loo lou's ear last night and she was fine with it, purring because she thought she was getting some attention. think the problem, or time i will need to contact either simon or yourself will be with the change of diet/pzi introduction. thank you, And its reassuring to know im not on my own throughout all this.
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

You're definitely not on your own, Darren - we all know how overwhelming this is with so much to take in, and everyone here is super and will be with you every step of the way. It won't be long before you're the one offering support to others!

I will PM you with my phone number - don't hesitate to ring either me or Simon. Also, we were trying to track down another UK member who lived in Manchester last we heard of her - did Simon get back to you about that?

I think the main thing at the moment is to stay calm and don't get too stressed about a perfect curve. Cats pick up on stress and if you're not calm when you're trying to take a blood test, they won't be either. We often suggest having some nice music on in the background or a glass (just one!!) of your favourite tipple to relax you. It does make it easier. The other important thing is warmth - a cat's ear needs to be gently warmed to get blood most easily. People do this various ways but I found the easiest was to make a little pad from cottonwool - run it under hot water, wring it out well and hold it behind the ear with one hand whilst using the lancet pen with the other. I remember it was all a real fiddly procedure at first but after a while it's a doddle. Having said all that, it sounds as if you have done your first test with no problems, in which case very well done!

So if you're doing a curve, just do the best you can, and let us know here and we will comment. A curve will show you what the insulin is doing (or not) and is the very best indicator of the next steps. Remember also, as I think I said (and others may or may not have said) - although this board is open to everyone wherever they are in the world, the vast majority of members are in the US and think in US numbers. Here in the UK we use the international version. If I remember rightly, you can callibrate your meter to one version or the other so I would say go for the international numbers so you can show your vet. By all means talk in "our" version here on the board but I would remind people, in any new posts with BG readings, that you are in the UK - otherwise you will get some very confused and confusing comments! I think to convert our numbers into US numbers you multiply by 18 - so, for example, if you get a reading of 10.0, Americans would need to understand that it's 180 to them. I hope that makes sense.

Keep us informed!
Diana
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Becky,

Bought an 'Accu-Check' kit from boots, seems to have done the trick, got full curve any (results will post in a moment on 'FIRST CURVE' header).

The actual pen is quite easy to use, but feel free to have a look around or ask other peoples advice, boots does do quite a few different types.

Hows Winston doing at the moment? is he ok?

Darren
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Becky,

Sorry for really late reply, just been mad busy today, If need answer straight away, do personal message, it comes through to my phone so will find time to log in.

Darren
 
Re: uk - skeletal cat on caninsulin 3mos - urgent help neede

Hi Darren, not sure why I didn't get your reply but only spotted it when I did a search for caninsulin and it came up rather than being on the main board? Am I looking in the wrong palce? Anyway have been back and forth to the vets, some visits positive some not so great. He went up to 3 units twice a day, then when I went back the following week he'd lost more weight, down to 5.8, so was put up to 4 units twice a day, and then when I went back 2 days later his weight was up to 6.2 and his glucose had dropped to 13 (about 4 hours after his insulin). So am currently still trying to get his levels right while constantly worrying about him! His drinking and weeing seemed to subside yesterday but today seemed to be a bit more again. Am back at the Vets wednesday, was due friday but am worried about his wobbly back legs still, but if they improve will leave the visit until Friday as the constant visits are not only distressing for him (even though I think he's getting quite used it) but they are also rather costly! But then we'd do anything for our pets wouldn't we? I am going to talk to the vet about testing at home this week and see what he suggests. Thank you for letting me know which kit you got, its a real help.

How are you and your cat getting on?
 
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