Two Cats Different Food Needs

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djacks1128

djacks1128

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Hello,
I am new to this forum and to the feline diabetes world. My little girl Ashley was diagnosed recently with feline diabetes. She went into the vet for insulin stabilization for three days and has been home and is doing well. Her vet suggested feeding her Purina DM, however I do not like Purina at all. My other issue is that Ashley's brother, Dudley is already on a perscription diet for Feline lower urinary tract disease (FLUTD). I've been giving both of them Waltham S/O dry as well as Hills C/D wet for years now. In the past, and prior to Ashley's diagnosis, their previous vet said it was fine to give her the same food since she was healthy and I didn't want to separate their food. I was free feeding before. Now I need to change her food to something that will help her diabetes and I'm wondering A) what to feed her?, B) How to separate their food?, C) is there any food that would be helpful to both of them? (I also wonder if Dudley's food caused this for Ashley and if it's healthy overall for him, but that's a whole other issue.)
I would greatly appreciate any advice!
confused_cat
Sheryl & Ashley
 
Welcome Sheryl and Ashley,

This is a great resource for diabetic cats. We have been very successful getting hundreds of cats regulated or into remission following this protocol:

Food. You are on the right track. Wet lo carb food is best for any cat, but especially diabetics. Dr. Lisa Pierson discusses the reason for this and does deal with other food issues like Dudley has on this website: http://www.catinfo.org You can free feed wet food; lots of us freeze it and leave it out to thaw. Many kitties here started on wet DM but lost interest fast. It is liver based and not a favorite, and not as low in carb as over the counter food.

BUT don't change the diet until you are testing at home. We use human glucometers and test our kitties before each shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin, just like we would do for our other two legged children. See this good beginning site: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm and this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 When we changed Oliver from dry to wet, his bg levels went down 100 points overnight. If we hadn't been testing, we would have given him his usual dose and sent him into a hypo.

The last part is insulin - a mild, long lasting insulin starting with a low dose and slowly increasing, based on home test numbers. What insulin did your vet start you on and how much?

This is a very treatable disease. There is a steep learning curve at first, but it soon becomes part of your daily routine. Read and ask questions. We'll help!
 
Hi Sheryl - I could have written your post. Shadow on Waltham SO so everybody ate it. And packed on the pounds. must be really tasty stuff. I'm convinced it is what got Shadow into this mess. Like you, I was feeding it to the entire wrecking crew (four). After Shadow's Dx, I found Dr. Lisa's website which eventually led me here. I have been making the transition since June, all 4 monsters are now eating canned food and you know what? no urinary problems, not one. That's the good news.

The bad news is, it is hard to change a kitty from free-feeding to timed meals and we are still working on that. I can't keep up with different diets, so what SHadow eats, they all eat. And they are liking the Fancy Feast which has helped the whole process along.

Here's some links, you may have already been given, but I'll give them again:
Janet and Binky's food pages: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
Dr. Lisa: http://www.catinfo.org/

Dr. Lisa's site is full of wonderful info, not only about sugar kitties but UTI/crystal kitties as well.

Low Carb food is below 10%, most of us choose foods in the 3-4% range, some kitties are even sensitive to that much carb and they get 0% carbs.

Start with Dr. Lisa's site. It lays a good foundation, she is an excellent teacher.

So, nice to meet you and sorry about Ashley. It is good that you are here. Lots of folks around to help you anyway we can. Read and read and come back with questions. Hope to see you around.
 
djacks1128 said:
Now I need to change her food to something that will help her diabetes and I'm wondering A) what to feed her?, B) How to separate their food?, C) is there any food that would be helpful to both of them? (I also wonder if Dudley's food caused this for Ashley and if it's healthy overall for him, but that's a whole other issue.)
I would greatly appreciate any advice!
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A. Read Catinfo.org for basic proper nutrition and reasons why canned or RAW foods are best.

B. You don't need to separate the food. Both your cats can eat the same low carb canned and/or RAW food. Members who have multiple cats that include a diabetic or two just feed one diet.

C. Once you have read Catinfo.org, you can take a look at the famous Binky's canned food charts: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html Feed foods that have a number less than 10 in the carb column. These are "low carb" foods that are suitable for your diabetic cat. You non-diabetic cat can also eat these. If you choose to feed RAW, either homemade or a commercial brand, feed one that is grain-free. As others have said, don't change the diet until you learn how to test your diabetic cat's blood glucose levels at home. A diet change can have a big impact on dropping blood glucose levels and insulin need.
 
Wow...thank you all for this great information. I started reading Dr. Lisa's site and there is a ton of good info there.

Ashley went in yesterday for her one full day follow-up monitoring day. Her BG was still high in the 400's so they told me to increase her from 2 units to 3 units. She has been taking 2 units twice a day for the past 3 weeks. The vet told me to bring her back in two weeks for a fructose test. They said that I can change her food now so that they can see the results of the food change in that test.

So you guys are saying that I should not change her food until I start testing her at home? I have to say I am really afraid of doing that. I've looked at some pictures of that on-line before, but haven't see the videos yet.

Wow...i'm feeling overwhelmed and confused right now. Not to mention, I have to travel a full week for work at the beginning of December and my husband wants to come with me. I've never NOT wanted to go to Miami as much as i don't want to right now. Our friend has house/cat sat for us before, but I don't trust that he can keep up with all of this twice a day for a week. I don't even know if my husband would be able to if he stays home.

Would it be ok to maybe just transition off of the dry food and just feed both the Hills C/D wet food and give Ashely the 3 units of insulin...until mid December when i can get into a better routine & closer monitoring. I feel bad prolonging a better, healthier diet for them because of my work.
 
Hi there

I know this is overwhelming, been there and felt that :)

Hometesting is way easier than it looks, for most of us that is. I was terrified of it and refused to do it until Squeak showed he needed me to take control and test. Upping a dose based on a test at a clinic, using fructosamines, changing diet, etc. are all recipes for potential disaster. You have time to learn and test prior to your business trip and I'd highly suggest it for many reasons but especially to ensure you aren't overdosing prior to going on your trip. ANd don't feel bad about your trip because people have to work and have lives :)

Personally, I would learn to test this weekend, keep the dose at 2 and start a diet change as soon as you can get a few tests done.

Jen
 
I know this is hard - but it is possible that things could look a lot better in December if you hometest and feed wet lo carb food.

I'm with Jen. If I were you, I would start hometesting now. As we have said, tests at the vets can be much higher than you get at home and then you can be giving too much insulin once he gets home and relaxes. The vet who posts here compared giving insulin without hometesting to driving down the freeway with a paper bag over your head! It does sound scary but is worth the effort. If you post your city and state, there may be someone who lives nearby who could come help the first time. We have also taught lots of people to test over the internet.

We are nervous about your changing the food because it can mean drastic changes in the blood glucose levels. If you are not on top of that, you can easily overdose.
 
I do feel like i'm driving with a paper bag over my head with this whole insulin thing. You guys are totally right! I did ask the vet about that when she was first diagnosed and he told me no, that i didn't have to do it and that after he does his testing every few weeks, then it only needs to be done once every few months. What do I know? he's the medical professional right?
My mom is a diabetic and does not take insulin, but if she still checks her blood every day before her pills and food. DUH!
I do not want my baby girl to go hypo and something happen. I was terrified of the shots at first...so i'll figure this out too.
I live just outside of Princeton, New Jersey. Anyone from that area?
I will prepare to get this started this weekend. Does anyone recommend a particular test kit that may be easier to use or more cat friendly?
 
Go Girl :)

Yes, I think there is someone in Princeton...could you click on the members list and search? I'm at work or I would...

Jen
 
If money is an issue, the ReliOn from Walmart is the cheapest - meter and strips. The strips are the expensive part; the meters are often free at the drugstore. We had a PrecisionXtra we loved and bought our strips on ebay for less than half the price in stores.

You also need lancets (25-26 gauge is good for new diabetics) and a lancet device. You can make a rice sack to warm the ears with a thinnish sock, raw rice, knotted. You're going to heat that in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Warm ears bleed better. Watch the video and try the meter out on yourself first.

While you are there, get some ketone strips (just like human diabetics use) so you can test urine (needed sometimes if numbers are really high)

I posted over on Community for someone who might live near you.

Understand that about 1% of newbies get blood on their first try. (It took us an entire weekend) So don't get discouraged. Come on with specific problems and we will have lots of tips for you that helped us.
 
My mom is going to give me one of her (human) meters and some test strips to start with. I forget what kind it is. Ashley's ears are usually warm at night...i munch (without teeth) on them often. I'll try the rice sack as well.

When you say try it out on myself first...do you mean actually stick myself and test my blood? This sounds hypocritical, but I HATE needles...I've been at the dentist for the last two weeks withOUT novocaine.

Thanks for posting in the Community Sue!

Jen mentioned that 3 units of the ProZinc is too much...do other's agree? Should I lower it?
 
Yes, your mom's meter should work as long as it sips and takes a tiny sample.

The reason to try it on yourself is twofold. One, you get the hang of how it works before you have a cat to contend with. And two, you will find it doesn't hurt much so you won't feel guilty about poking.

I do agree your dose is high. If you get a number, we will have an idea of where you should go with it.
 
Yes, trying it out on yourself really does mean sticking yourself. But if you can't bring yourself to do that, maybe another member of your family will volunteer to play guinea pig? On the other hand, I don't think I tested myself before I learned to test Megan, so it's not really a requirement. (I did eventually try it: When I was having trouble with one lancet device and suspected that the lancet tip wasn't ever coming out the end, which was part of why I couldn't get blood, I did test out my suspicions by putting my finger on the end where it would get pricked, then pushing the button. The device really wasn't working properly. My finger remained unscathed.)

That said, I found that even though I am one of the world's worst about fear of needles, testing Megan and later one of my civvies was no problem at all. It just doesn't provoke the "terror" reaction that I expected. Now I test myself routinely, because of creeping-higher BG numbers, and it's no problem.
 
Sheryl & Ashley said:
Jen mentioned that 3 units of the ProZinc is too much...do other's agree? Should I lower it?
Click to expand...

Sheryl....I never...well, almost never....give dosing advice on the board but I suggest that you listen to what is being said here. I would never raise a dose by 50%.....especially if someone is not home testing. But even then....I can't think of any time that I would raise a dose that much at one time.
 
Sorry I've been late to respond back. In your original post you said you were at 2 units and your vet said to go to three, and then in the other post you said starting at 3. I definitely believe that starting at 3 is too much. Starting at 2 may also be too much but that depends on what food you are feeding. To raise by a whole unit without hometesting is problematic, and then your vet suggested doing that AND changing the diet. All of which could either be just right or too much, and its too risky in my opinion.
 
Jen,

Sorry if my original post was confusing. They started her on 2 units three weeks ago and upped it to 3 units yesterday. I didn't actually even speak to the doctor yesterday and spoke to the tech when i picked her up. I should have insisted upon speaking to the doctor. I'm not feeling too confident about any of them right now though.

I'm super confused now and don't know whether i should lower the dose or think about changing her food right now.

Hillary may be coming over to show me how to home test, so maybe this will all come together for me then.
 
My cat started at 3 units of Lantus twice a day and then moved to 4 units twice a day. During that time, I also changed from Hill's C/D dry which is high carb (and everyone was on it since another cat had urinary problems) to Hill's M/d dry which is lo carb/high protein. Then I found out that canned is what they need to eat. With all the changes of doses and diet, my cat had a seizure with no symptoms before. I had to learn how to hometest immediately but it helped. I had issues to begin with but if I could not get a test then I did not give a shot. I also gave a lower shot than the vet wanted me to after the seizure but I was scared to continue with the same dose. The people on this board agreed that I should not follow a seizure with the same size dose. Anyway, now we are not giving shots at all since his numbers have been low. No shots in 4 weeks as of tomorrow! Good luck.
 
And I add water to the canned m/d too so that everyone gets plenty of water. In fact, I hardly ever find anyone drinking water since I add a lot to make it really soupy. My cat with urinary problems seems to be doing pretty good right now. I hope that continues. Trying to feed two different diets was very difficult and someone always got some food they should not have eaten.
 
Was the seizure caused by an insulin overdose? or the BG going too low?
so scary! i cut her dose back down to below two units and one of the great ladies on this board is coming over to my house on Saturday morning to show me how to home test and collect data. I feel blessed to have found this forum and like there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

I also make cat food soup and add water to their food. Ashley drinks lots of water too. Dudley, not so much. I'm planning to cut their dry food out soon too, but this will be challenging.

Congrats on your cat being off of the insulin! OTJ as they call it here. I'm hoping for Ashley to be on that road soon!
 
an overdose of insulin CAUSES the bg to go too low...

Also -- if the kitty does not eat as much as usual... (or pukes after eating) (less sugar in the system to start with)

Or if the kitty does a lot of exercise that is not usual... (burns more sugar naturally)
 
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