Hi all, Jasper is on caninsulin and while it is bringing his numbers down it is very up and down. I asked my vet if he could go on lantus as I have seen from all the posts that it works better. Apparently there is a law over here that states that human medicines cannot be used on animals where there has been no testing and as lantus is for humans she cannot prescribe it for jasper. The only time it can be prescribed is if caninsulin is not working on him and as caninsulin is bringing down his numbers then it is obviously having a good effect. Now before people say switch vets as my vet is not a good vet for not prescribing lantus - my vet has been absolutely fabulous, they have saved jaspers life a good few times and has encouraged me to home test even coming out to help at no charge. They have suggested prescription food which we have tried to no avail and have accepted that felix is the only food he will eat (I will keep trying others) I do not want to change vets as jasper is really getting used to them now and as I say they have been fab. Has anyone else had this problem in the uk?
Trying to get Lantus prescribed in the uk
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SweetAngel
Member Since 2014
hi Mel,
It might be worth talking to Ruth who runs the trial that Angel is on, and asking her advice. If the numbers are up and down, you might have a case. The number is 01707 666605. x
It might be worth talking to Ruth who runs the trial that Angel is on, and asking her advice. If the numbers are up and down, you might have a case. The number is 01707 666605. x
phlika29
Member Since 2014
Hi Mel
It's called the cascade system. The vet in the uk has to prescribe caninsulin first. Like you my vet is great but was a little reluctant to switch to lantus but I helped persuade him by:
Taking blood glucose reading and inputting them on the spreadsheet and then sharing that with my vet highlighting my concern about its in and out properties and my worry about the the risk of hypo.
Speak to Ruth at the royal vetinary college who runs the feline diabetic remission clinic and if your cat can't get accepted onto the trial ask her to phone and speak to your vet.
Pass your vet this document http://www.felinediabetes.com/AAHADiabe ... elines.pdf
Keep feeding back to your vet and giving the benefits of lantus and share details of this website.
Good luck
Sarah
It's called the cascade system. The vet in the uk has to prescribe caninsulin first. Like you my vet is great but was a little reluctant to switch to lantus but I helped persuade him by:
Taking blood glucose reading and inputting them on the spreadsheet and then sharing that with my vet highlighting my concern about its in and out properties and my worry about the the risk of hypo.
Speak to Ruth at the royal vetinary college who runs the feline diabetic remission clinic and if your cat can't get accepted onto the trial ask her to phone and speak to your vet.
Pass your vet this document http://www.felinediabetes.com/AAHADiabe ... elines.pdf
Keep feeding back to your vet and giving the benefits of lantus and share details of this website.
Good luck
Sarah
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hi Mel,
Your vet is spot on about the cascade system restrictions. You have to show that Caninsulin is not keeping your cat properly regulated and also whether Caninsulin may put your little one at greater risk of a hypo, as Sarah has mentioned above,
The best way to build a case for getting an Rx for Lantus is to build up your spreadsheet. It will provide irrefutable evidence of how long Jasper spends each day in unregulated numbers. As levels get lower, it will also provide an illustration of how much more the precipitous drops that are the hallmark of Caninsulin may be increasing the risk of a hypo episode.
It is also helpful to document your cat's clinical signs in the remarks section of your spreadsheet. Caninsulin absolutely hammered Saoirse's system. She wanted to hide before her injections were due and spent 9-10 hours of every cycle poleaxed and hiding behind a curtain. There has to be quality of life for our moggies on insulin, not just regulated numbers. If you're seeing similar signs in your cat - or any other signs or behaviours that indicate Jasper's out of sorts - document them.
Once your spreadsheet is together, in addition to sharing it here you can also email the link to your vet if you wish. We do that with our vets and it works really well for all of us. Our vets very kindly do telephone consults for us most of the time (less stressful on both Saoirse and her agoraphobic human!).
The spreadsheet proved invaluable in helping to get Saoirse switched to Lantus because our vets had all the evidence they needed to justify the Rx. Also, our main vet and Ruth at the RVC had a chat when Saoirse got to the stage where a dose of 0.2 IU Caninsulin would have put her at risk of a hypo. I think that chat aided our case, too.
Hope that helps! :smile:
Your vet is spot on about the cascade system restrictions. You have to show that Caninsulin is not keeping your cat properly regulated and also whether Caninsulin may put your little one at greater risk of a hypo, as Sarah has mentioned above,
The best way to build a case for getting an Rx for Lantus is to build up your spreadsheet. It will provide irrefutable evidence of how long Jasper spends each day in unregulated numbers. As levels get lower, it will also provide an illustration of how much more the precipitous drops that are the hallmark of Caninsulin may be increasing the risk of a hypo episode.
It is also helpful to document your cat's clinical signs in the remarks section of your spreadsheet. Caninsulin absolutely hammered Saoirse's system. She wanted to hide before her injections were due and spent 9-10 hours of every cycle poleaxed and hiding behind a curtain. There has to be quality of life for our moggies on insulin, not just regulated numbers. If you're seeing similar signs in your cat - or any other signs or behaviours that indicate Jasper's out of sorts - document them.
Once your spreadsheet is together, in addition to sharing it here you can also email the link to your vet if you wish. We do that with our vets and it works really well for all of us. Our vets very kindly do telephone consults for us most of the time (less stressful on both Saoirse and her agoraphobic human!).
The spreadsheet proved invaluable in helping to get Saoirse switched to Lantus because our vets had all the evidence they needed to justify the Rx. Also, our main vet and Ruth at the RVC had a chat when Saoirse got to the stage where a dose of 0.2 IU Caninsulin would have put her at risk of a hypo. I think that chat aided our case, too.
Hope that helps! :smile:
Elizabeth and Bertie
Member Since 2010
Hi Mel,
I see that other UK'ers have already given super-duper advice and suggestions already (about the 'cascade system' of prescribing etc). :smile:
It is indeed the case that UK vets are required to prescribe a 'veterinary' medicine before prescribing anything else; and currently the only suitable veterinary insulin is Caninsulin.
The attitude of UK vets in respect of prescribing alternative meds varies enormously. Some vets are reluctant to prescribe anything other than Caninsulin. Some vets can easily be persuaded. Some vets positively suggest and encourage alternatives.
If Caninsulin isn't producing sufficiently good results (and just to reassure you, quite a few cats have actually gone into remission here on Caninsulin), then you have several other options available. There are three insulins that have been prescribed as alternatives to Caninsulin. These are, Lantus/Glargine, Levemir, and Hypurin bovine PZI. All of these are long-lasting insulins and have a history of being good insulins for cats.
My own vet was also reluctant to switch insulins, but because of the data I'd collected (showing Caninsulin wasn't getting good results) he did agree to prescribe an alternative (we now use Hypurin PZI).
It's great that you are hometesting. Hometesting is your best friend in enabling you to gather data to show how the insulin is (or isn't) working in your cat. And, as others have suggested here from their own experience, it might also be possible to get support from a vet at the RVC's remission trial.
Which Felix food are you feeding specifically? There may be others out there with a lower carb content that your kitty may find palatable...
Eliz
I see that other UK'ers have already given super-duper advice and suggestions already (about the 'cascade system' of prescribing etc). :smile:
It is indeed the case that UK vets are required to prescribe a 'veterinary' medicine before prescribing anything else; and currently the only suitable veterinary insulin is Caninsulin.
The attitude of UK vets in respect of prescribing alternative meds varies enormously. Some vets are reluctant to prescribe anything other than Caninsulin. Some vets can easily be persuaded. Some vets positively suggest and encourage alternatives.
If Caninsulin isn't producing sufficiently good results (and just to reassure you, quite a few cats have actually gone into remission here on Caninsulin), then you have several other options available. There are three insulins that have been prescribed as alternatives to Caninsulin. These are, Lantus/Glargine, Levemir, and Hypurin bovine PZI. All of these are long-lasting insulins and have a history of being good insulins for cats.
My own vet was also reluctant to switch insulins, but because of the data I'd collected (showing Caninsulin wasn't getting good results) he did agree to prescribe an alternative (we now use Hypurin PZI).
It's great that you are hometesting. Hometesting is your best friend in enabling you to gather data to show how the insulin is (or isn't) working in your cat. And, as others have suggested here from their own experience, it might also be possible to get support from a vet at the RVC's remission trial.
Which Felix food are you feeding specifically? There may be others out there with a lower carb content that your kitty may find palatable...
Eliz
Hi All, I work 2 jobs and have 3 kids so don't get a lot of time but I am going to try and get a full day off next week to do a curve and maybe again a few days later and then go to the vets with my spreadsheet and try and talk them round. They are so good and have been excellent so far so I am sure if I have the evidence then eventually they will come round. If not I will ring and ask about the trial. Jasper is on Felix fish selection in jelly pouches, he ranges from 4 to 5 pouches a day as we have had a few instances (like today) where his numbers have gone really low in the afternoon so he has to have an extra pouch 
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Is Jasper an indoor-only moggie?
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
If you could keep him as an indoor-only mog for the time being, you could use some secondary monitoring techniques to get more info on how he's doing. There's great info in BJ's signature link.
One of the easiest is monitoring water intake. My vets told me that this is the only monitoring that some people do. Assuming that Jasper is drinking more than a normal, if you create a daily log of how much he's drinking and it doesn't reduce then it points to his being unregulated. Home testing his urine for glucose and ketones is another technique that isn't as time-specific as the blood glucose testing. You can pick up non-absorbent cat litter test kits and urinalysis strips at reasonable prices on ebay. (Catrine test kits are the cheapest I've found so far, and I use Siemens Multistix for urine testing.)
One of the easiest is monitoring water intake. My vets told me that this is the only monitoring that some people do. Assuming that Jasper is drinking more than a normal, if you create a daily log of how much he's drinking and it doesn't reduce then it points to his being unregulated. Home testing his urine for glucose and ketones is another technique that isn't as time-specific as the blood glucose testing. You can pick up non-absorbent cat litter test kits and urinalysis strips at reasonable prices on ebay. (Catrine test kits are the cheapest I've found so far, and I use Siemens Multistix for urine testing.)
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