Trying out PEN NEEDLES with Lantus Solostar

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MsBliss

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OK, so they now have nano sized pen needles, and further still, nano sized with 5 POINT BEVELS for no sting and easy flow out of insulin. Apparently, no tenting is required and, for people, you just point down and inject. QUESTION: For our kitties, is the aim to inject into the fat layer, or just under the skin? For cats, if you are on single unit doses, no half units, as my cats are both on 3 units and 1 unit, why not use the pen needles for ease of care? I've been using syringes, but I need to stream line as I now have a third chronically ill cat (IBD), who also has chronic renal failure, as well as one of my diabetic kitties also has chronic renal failure, so I am overwhelmed here. I note that most FDMB advice is to syringe from the pen, but why not use the pen needles if it makes it easier to administer? Is there a danger I am unaware of? Many thanks for your thoughts.....
 
Hi!

UNfortunately we can't use the pen needles with our kitties. The dosage varies with each shot, sometimes it can vary as much at .5 unit - that's a full dose for some kitties. For a human this is no big deal but for a kitty, you could potentially double a dose without knowing. We use the cartridges but use regular insulin syringes - just pull from the rubber seal at the end of the cartridge.

HUGS!!!
 
If you dose in integer units you can use the pen. I have only used the 5 mm long pen needles and I still tented. It all depends upon the thickness of the "skin".
With My Tonis I found that using the syringe was easier than the pen. However, when my vial of Levemir runs out I am going to try the pen for my MurrFee. He is on 13 units twice daily.
 
The "dial a dose" that comes with the pens is designed for humans, who are on much higher doses than our kitties. Humans routinely get 20+ units, so if it's off a half unit (or even a whole one), it's not life or death

For our kitties, it can be.

I get a box of 100 syringes for about $13 at WalMart....Hopefully that's something you can afford to continue
 
These
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20515311
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... 7.full.pdf
disagree with what yo said. Specificallu
C O N C L U S I O N S — Pen devices are more accurate than insulin syringes in measuring out
insulin at low insulin doses. The accuracy of insulin syringes improves when higher doses of
regular insulin are measured out and becomes comparable to pen devices.
Chris & China said:
The "dial a dose" that comes with the pens is designed for humans, who are on much higher doses than our kitties. Humans routinely get 20+ units, so if it's off a half unit (or even a whole one), it's not life or death

For our kitties, it can be.

I get a box of 100 syringes for about $13 at WalMart....Hopefully that's something you can afford to continue
Click to expand...
 
You can use the pen needles. We did, and from our experience, the dose dialed on the pen is accurate and consistent. We followed Lantus tight regulation protocol with no micro-dosing whatsoever. Our cat remained safe on 1 unit from the pen, until remission. Due to the inaccuracy of syringes, you can actually end up giving more than 1 unit when micro-dosing anyway. Why make things more difficult than they need to be? There's no reason you can't use the pen needles, given your current doses.

Because we started dosing with the pen, we found it easier. If you are used to syringes, you might dislike injecting with the pen. We pointed down to inject with the pen, but we did tent the skin as we used regular needles.
 
The two biggest problems with the needle tips are they only dose in whole units (we increase/decrease in .25u at a time) and they have a tendency to cause more fur shots (needle length and thickness is designed for human skin and not cat skin). Other than that, I don't think there's too many other issues with using them besides the cost of the tips.... Not sure if they cost more than syringes?
 
I don't think we had any fur shots using the pen needles, so it seems less likely to me. Perhaps due to the slightly different injection method.
 
Pen needles come in about the same length and thickness as syringe needles except the thickest is only 29 gauge.
BD currently offers 4mm x 32G, 5mm x 31G, 8mm x 31G and 12.7mmx 29G pen needles.

KPassa said:
The two biggest problems with the needle tips are they only dose in whole units (we increase/decrease in .25u at a time) and they have a tendency to cause more fur shots (needle length and thickness is designed for human skin and not cat skin). Other than that, I don't think there's too many other issues with using them besides the cost of the tips.... Not sure if they cost more than syringes?
Click to expand...
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Pen needles come in about the same length and thickness as syringe needles except the thickest is only 29 gauge.
BD currently offers 4mm x 32G, 5mm x 31G, 8mm x 31G and 12.7mmx 29G pen needles.
Click to expand...

That's great to know about the different lengths. One of the people I was helping out locally had been using the pen needle tips and had a hard time with the needle bending or not going deep enough to puncture the skin. I'm guessing she was using the 4mm then. I just assumed they were all the same length. :oops:
 
Here's my issue with the pen needles:

When you depress the pen trigger, the insulin isn't ejected all at once. It is slowly pushed out as the plunger is depressed. That requires keeping the needle in the cat longer waiting for the full dose to dispense. I used to hold it in for a 20 count, and sometimes upon withdrawing a drop or two would still ooze out of the tip. That's a minimum of a half to a full unit when using a syringe.
 
We also held it in a long time, 10-20 seconds. However, it is not necessary. We did many tests to determine how long we should hold it in, and most of the insulin actually comes out very quickly. It was obvious with these tests that the amount dispensed is consistent. The drips afterwards are irrelevant, in my opinion, and they don't seem to occur unless you hold the pen in for an excessive amount of time. It's incorrect to advise that syringes are accurate and the pen isn't. We 'shot low to stay low' with the pen and it was consistent and safe. Our cat never went too low or too high, even though he tightly regulated immediately and we continued insulin longer than appeared necessary (as advised by Jacquie Rand).
 
What ever, the key is to be consistent, that you press the pen button the same each time and leave the needle is in the cat the same amount of time.
 
It's incorrect to advise that syringes are accurate and the pen isn't.
Click to expand...

I guess it's a good thing that I didn't advise that then. I simply related my personal experience which was that the pen continued to leak insulin once withdrawn. I eliminated that problem by switching to syringes that allow me to inject the entire dose quickly and cleanly without losing insulin after taking the needle out. Additionally, if one needs fractions of a unit, syringes are a necessity.
 
You said the drips/leaks were equivalent to a minimum of 0.5 or 1 unit in a syringe. Sometimes, insulin on the needle after the pre-shot pen test, drips onto the skin after removal of the needle and seems to be dispensed by the pen, but isn't. I also merely related my personal experience. As I said, we followed TRP without micro-dosing and found the pen safe and reliable. I'm pleased you are happy with syringes ~ whatever works for each individual. The OP asked about pen needles and was discouraged, despite current doses of 3 and 1 units.
 
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