Trouble getting blood sample

[Fiona and Sasha]

Hi there. Tonight I had my first experience of home testing. I decided to use my old strips (I figure that they should give ballpark results, even though they are expired) and test Sahsa's BGL before I gave him insulin. Spent ages reading this site and equipment documentation and watching videos. I had the meter ready to go, tissues, a warm washcloth in a plastic bag and a lit candle (my torch has decided it won't work anymore). I gave Sasha lots of love. Then the marathon of blood collection...
I think I butchered him. Had a few goes at both ears, front and back, one prick or two pricks, manual lancing and using the pen, lots of massaging. Barely got a smudge! I ended up having to use his paw pad. He surprisingly seemed OK with it, not being in pain, but I think it would be painful, especially over time.
I am wondering if I am having trouble getting blood from his ears because they are badly scarred. Poor lad has teeth marks all over his body (including his ears) and a torn ear. He usually won't let me touch his paws, so it will be a problem when he feels better.
After all the trouble, I only tested before insulin. Got a value of 221 (12.3 mmol/L). He is off to the vet tomorrow evening for official testing. I still have a lot more reading to do about testing throughout the cycle, so I will do that before asking questions.
Anyone else have trouble with scarred ears? Any ideas for alternative collection sites? Anyone want to share experiences with paw pricking? How often do I test?

 

[Critter Mom]

Initially I used several moist, warm cotton pads in a bag to warm Saoirse's ear but I found that:

1. They lost heat fairly quickly.

2. They annoyed Saoirse a lot and she used to wriggle (she's not overly fond of her ears being fiddled with).

So I swapped to a small plastic tube filled with warmed water and things went much better. I just have to hold it to the 'sweet spot' at the edge of Saoirse's ear for a while to warm it up. It's not bulky so she doesn't mind it as much, and it seems to retain heat better. Be sure to try warming the ear for a bit longer than you might think is necessary. Warming the ear long enough was key to our success with testing.

Useful tests to get are at +2 after the insulin injection (to get advance warnings of 'active' cycles where the Lantus has a stronger lowering effect on the BG) and also mid-cycle tests to establish nadir BG (usually somewhere between +5 and +7, but depends on the cat).

 

[KPassa]

Most cats will let you play with their ears more than their feet, so that's probably the biggest reason most people test the ears. If he's letting you test the paw pads and you find it easier to manage than his ears, then by all means, use those paw pads.

Like Áine, when I first started out testing, heating the ear was imperative for getting blood. Another option is to fill a sock with rice (I used a child's sock), tied a knot on the end, and popped it in the microwave for 15 seconds. Here are a few more testing tips that you might find helpful.

 

[Tiger(GA) and Ruth]

Congratulations on hometesting- and a belated welcome to the forum! It can take a good week for Sasha's ears to "learn" to bleed- so please don't feel too discouraged, those little capillaries need time and then it will be easier. In the meantime, are you able to get Neosporin with Pain Relief in OZ? If not, maybe @Vyktors Mum would be able to make some other suggestions. I accidently poke myself from time to time, and it really does take the sting out of the poke! Are you offering treats? My kitty Tiger loves Chicken Pure Bites- I give her a piece for each test and shot, now she is waiting for me on her little pillow at test time! You might practice just rubbing Sasha's ear throughout the day and give him a treat for that as well. When I was starting out, if I couldn't get blood with 3 tries, I would quit for that test session, give the treats, praise Tiger and be done with it. And that happened a lot at first, trust me! From the time I stuck the test strip into the meter, it felt like it was a nightmare, like I was trying to beat the clock and added so much pressure- ack! But you need to know, it will get better and it already sounds like Sasha is a good, patient kitty, you're doing a great job!

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Hi Fiona I am in Perth too! Being so warm here heating the ear probably isn't so much of an issue. What I do which has worked fine on Vyktor and my mum's cat Purrdy is rub the edge of the ear between my thumb and first finger for about 30 secs to increase the blood flow there, the trick is you need to keep rubbing right up until just before you poke. Scarred ears may create more of a problem because I'm not sure the blood flow will ever be as good. You might like to edit your subject line to mention that to catch the eye of others that have cats with scarred ears. Are they both scarred throughout the whole 'sweet spot'?

I don't think we can get neosporin here but I think @Voula (also in Aus) uses a similar product for her cat Lucy. I never had any problems with Vyktor's ears. What gauge lancet are you using? Often beginners have problems because they are using a lancet that is too thin (too high a number) before the ear capillaries have learnt to bleed. A 28 gauge is usually good to start with (I still use that size) so if you're using something in the 30s that could be your problem.

Welcome aboard Sasha is a handsome boy

 

[Voula]

Hi Fiona and Serryn. I don't use any creams for my Lucy for her ears and I don't know about what creams you can buy in Australia. Maybe your vet might know. All the best to you and Sasha too.

 

[bsmith]

From the time I stuck the test strip into the meter, it felt like it was a nightmare, like I was trying to beat the clock and added so much pressure- ack!

I find that you can insert the test strip just a little bit into the meter; enough that it holds the test strip, but doesn't turn the meter on. Then, once you find some blood, you push the test strip all the way in. You just hold the cat's head to keep him from shaking the blood droplet off for the few seconds it takes the meter to start up. I started doing this because I hate playing beat the clock. The pressure, the pressure! Plus, especially on my cat's right ear, it sometimes takes a bit for the blood to come up and I just gently massage that ear to get the blood moving.

@Fiona and Sasha, as far as pad testing versus ear testing I say do what ever works the best for you two. Every cat is different and whatever works best for you is the right thing to do.

 

[manxcat419]

I test ears, paw-pad, whatever I can get to easily. It varies depending on the day - and Rosa will quite often now give me the paw she wants me to use or resist turning onto her back if she wants me to test an ear. I really don't think it matters which you do, or even if you vary it - whatever you find works for you. And I'd agree with not putting the strip all the way into the meter until after you get blood - once the pressure to get blood onto the strip before the countdown expires is off, it's quite often easier to get a good test first time!

I don't heat the ear or paw pad at all - Rosa really didn't like it when I did that but it's easy enough to get a big enough blood drop without with a little practice - I even managed to get a good test first try on my civie girl a couple of days ago...and I used a 30 gauge lancet on her ear because I completely forgot I should be using a bigger one for a cat whose ears aren't used to testing! I didn't heat her ear up either...I hadn't planned to test her so I just went for it after I tested Rosa one evening!

The only thing I would say about using the paw pad is that I find it easier to go just slightly to one side (any side) of the center of the paw pad. I can only think that the center of the pad is the place that takes most pressure as the cat walks around so builds up harder skin over time that makes it a little trickier to get a good test.

 

[Critter Mom]

Rosa will quite often now give me the paw she wants me to use or resist turning onto her back if she wants me to test an ear.

Aw, bless! And so many TV scientists keep asking whether or not animals are intelligent. (sigh)

 

[manxcat419]

Oh she's smart enough to know that if one paw's a little sore from lots of tests and she gives me a different one I'll use it! And I think some days she just likes to choose for herself even if there's no real reason for it other that 'because they're her paws'

 

[bsmith]

Oh she's smart enough to know that if one paw's a little sore from lots of tests and she gives me a different one I'll use it! And I think some days she just likes to choose for herself even if there's no real reason for it other that 'because they're her paws'

Well, they are indeed her paws. She ought to know them best. (She sounds so cute. I can just picture her daintily holding out the paw she wants tested.) Most cats aren't too shy about letting it be known what they like and even more clear about what they do not like. Generally if a cat doesn't like something you're going to know about it in a hurry.

I usually give Edwin some petting or brushing before testing. I figure whichever ear he's rubbing against me the most is probably the less sore one. The ear rubbing occurs whe he's rubbing the side of his face against me and marking me clearly as his own. So, just in case I go out petting other cats, they'll know that I already belong to him.

But here's a question. How come I can seem to test from either side, but I can only give shots going from right to left? I have to turn him around to get him going the correct direction everytime or it just doesn't work. Do other people have this issue or is it just another "personal" problem that I have?

 

[manxcat419]

Oh there's nothing dainty about it - she shoves a paw at me...if I'm not quick enough to catch it she shoves it right in my face!! But yes, she likes to decide how it's going to be done. And lets us know if we get the wrong paw too!

She's not really a treat fan, she prefers to get cuddles before, during and after a test and she loves to rub her face on people too.

I agree, I can only give shots one way around - I've sometimes had to pick up the chair that Rosa's sitting on and turn it around so I can get the right angle for shots. With testing it doesn't seem to matter anywhere near as much.

 

[KPassa]

Because it's the hand you hold the needle with. If you switch hands, then you'll be able to get the other side....if you can manipulate your opposite hand to work as well as your dominate one.

I hold the needle in my right hand and discovered it's easiest for me to give shots in his right side coming from the back against the fur and in his left side (still right handed) coming from the front with the fur. Otherwise, I have to switch hands and it gets all kinds of awkward.

 

[bsmith]

Oh there's nothing dainty about it - she shoves a paw at me...if I'm not quick enough to catch it she shoves it right in my face!! But yes, she likes to decide how it's going to be done. And lets us know if we get the wrong paw too!

She's not really a treat fan, she prefers to get cuddles before, during and after a test and she loves to rub her face on people too.

I agree, I can only give shots one way around - I've sometimes had to pick up the chair that Rosa's sitting on and turn it around so I can get the right angle for shots. With testing it doesn't seem to matter anywhere near as much.

The paw shoving made me laugh. Don't mess with a cat who has both a good right and left hook. Edwin get's a little violent with the headbutting sometimes. He's given me a fat lip before doing that, but I seem to sleep better after he headbutts me a few times (concussion?).

Because it's the hand you hold the needle with. If you switch hands, then you'll be able to get the other side....if you can manipulate your opposite hand to work as well as your dominate one.

I hold the needle in my right hand and discovered it's easiest for me to give shots in his right side coming from the back against the fur and in his left side (still right handed) coming from the front with the fur. Otherwise, I have to switch hands and it gets all kinds of awkward.

Good to know I'm not the only one who can only shoot from one direction. I figured it might be a dominant hand issue, but thought I'd see if I was the only one.

Edited: How often should I be switching up injection spots? I've been mostly going for the middle in the scruff since that's how I always did his Adequan injections. I know there's a number a spots to inject insulin on your cat, but is not switching up my injection points perhaps causing some issues?

 

[manxcat419]

Rosa's twin, Regan, is an expert at headbutting - usually right after she cries to be picked up...I pick her up and she throws her head back right into my face. And yes, I've had a fat lip from that before too. Though it's definitely easier to sleep when you get lots of kitty cuddles, even if they are a bit rough sometimes.

 

[Fiona and Sasha]

Oh, the headbutting and boxing stories made me laugh! Bless our little ones! Sasha isn't into headbutting, but my Bella is.
Thank you all so much for the encouragement and tips. You are helping me keep my kitty alive and helping me get much more confident. Glad to hear that it may not yet be over for the ears. I tested Sasha this morning when he started going a little weird a few hours after his shot and he was at 58 so I think it is a really valuable thing to do. I told the vet that I tested and he actually seemed quite OK about me doing it after the shock left his face (he looked scared) and he said that they use a human monitor, too. He said to just test before I give the insulin, but tonight and tomorrow I will check a while after the shot to make sure the new dosage is not making him go too low.
April, I thought that maybe you had been testing Rosa for a while, but looking at the diagnosis date, that is not likely to be the case. You have one smart and assertive kitty! I think I did get to the side of centre the other day. I couldn't get anything yesterday, and at first try today, but I went a bit further over with a second go today and did OK. I think your theory about the pads might be right.
Don't know what gauge lancing device I am using. It is an Accu-Chek Softclix. There are five penetration settings and I have tried 2, 3 and 4. I used to use 2 on my finger.
I need to go to the pharmacy to get a box for disposing the syringes. They may be able to help with what will be OK for a cat. If they can't help, I am sure I will be back at the vets soon enough. Have visited on 6 days in the past week!
And, yes, I have also found that I need to rest the strip in the meter and not push it in until I start getting some blood out. Would be good to have an extra hand or two to make it even easier.

 

[Critter Mom]

He said to just test before I give the insulin, but tonight and tomorrow I will check a while after the shot to make sure the new dosage is not making him go too low.

(Emphasis mine.)

That's not correct for Lantus. Doses are based on the nadir (how low the dose takes the cat), not the preshot BG value. Mid-cycle checks are necessary to ensure that Sasha is on the right dose. You're doing the right thing running mid-cycle tests.

 

[manxcat419]

That's one of the great things about this board - we do keep a lot of numbers and other data and talk about our kitties spreadsheets. But they're so much more than numbers to us as well - they're still individual personalities and we talk about that just as much. It doesn't matter what sort of day you're having or how difficult it seems, there's always support, help and often a few funny stories to make everyone smile.

I agree, catching that 58 is important - it's still in the safe range, but getting towards the lower end of where you'd want Sasha to be. My vet doesn't encourage home testing and really doesn't like me using a human monitor so it sounds as though you've already got more support from them than I had.

I haven't been testing Rosa long, but she did have to get used to frequent testing as she starting racing down the dosing scale quickly as soon as she got to 2 units per dose. So there were nights we were testing her every 20-30 minutes for hours at a time. She is very assertive and learned very quickly that as long as she lets me get the test, she can call the shots about where I get the test from. You might also find it easier to use the highest setting with the lancing device for paw pads. I turn the one I have down to 2 (of 6) for Rosa's ears, but have to turn it all the way up for her paws. When you speak to the pharmacy, if they don't know what to use for a cat, I find the best lancets for paws are the alternate site use ones - which makes sense because testing the paw pad is similar to testing the palm of the hand for a human.

There are definitely days when an extra hand or two would be useful. The occasions where I've not got quite enough blood for a reading the first time and have to hold Rosa, get the used strip out of the tester, get a new strip out of the box and get it into the tester I always feel as though I need an extra hand, though somehow you even learn to do all that one-handed and quickly after the first couple of times.

And I would second what @Critter Mom said - while it is important to get a test just before you give insulin to make sure it's safe to give the dose, the mid-cycle readings are also very important to work out the right dose. Please don't look at Rosa's spreadsheet and think you're going to have to test every half-hour or every hour day after day - the tests that are all bunched up like that are from the days she's been either below 50 or close to it. Or from the days when she first started giving several green numbers in a row and I thought she might drop low. On normal days, I get a few tests between the +4 and +7 mark and random ones at other times that work with my schedule. You'll find you'll start to see patterns in Sasha's numbers fairly quickly and then you'll know the best times in the cycle to get tests to make sure you're catching the nadir.

 

[Fiona and Sasha]

(Emphasis mine.)

That's not correct for Lantus. Doses are based on the nadir (how low the dose takes the cat), not the preshot BG value. Mid-cycle checks are necessary to ensure that Sasha is on the right dose. You're doing the right thing running mid-cycle tests.

thank goodness you guys are here. I will keep a closer eye on it.

it is 3 am here. up with bella. Both kitties went to the vet and Bella was prescribed 0.25 to 0.5 of a 5 mg diazepam tablet 2-3 times a day to get her to eat and to see if she gets better from whatever it is she has. I gave her half a tablet and soon after she was stumbling about the house. Apparently a little sensitive to the meds. looks like she is ready gor a sleep now do maybe I can get a few hours in too before getting up to give sasha his insulin. I am not a morning person at the best of times

 

[Fiona and Sasha]

thanks so much april. so glad I dont have to test every 20-30 mins. it is good to know that you guys do see patterns in the numbers. encourages me to be more thorough with home testing so I can go easier on sash when we are up and running.

 

[manxcat419]

Poor Bella - I hope she's feeling better soon. The diazepam could well be making her sleepy by now, though it does sound as though she was very sensitive to it. I hear you on not being a morning person! The 3am wouldn't bother me - it would be the waking up the next morning!! I hope you manage to get some sleep.

And you're welcome - you really will start to see those patterns, and know when Sasha nadirs so you can test around then and not so much at other times. Rosa, of course because she's just awkward like that, decided to race her way down the dosing scale fast and pulls some fairly big drops from time to time so I test more than a lot of people at the moment to make sure I catch any really low points. I wouldn't want you to think you have to be permanently attached to a monitor and Sasha's paw pad!!

 

[Fiona and Sasha]

Sasha has never liked me touching his paws. He has been such a good lad. It is as if he knows it will help him. Cant say the same for Bella. All the vets are scared of her!

 

[manxcat419]

Rosa had always been one of those cats who'd pull her paw away if you tried to touch it. I have no idea why she allows me to test her paws, but she does - I do wonder if they know we're trying to help them feel better. Sasha sounds like such a sweetheart to let you take tests when he doesn't like his paws being touched.

My old vet was terrified of Rosa - she gets very severe vet stress and starts growling and hissing the minute she gets into the vet's office. She's all noise, and I knew that, so I'd just stick a hand in her carrier and pull her out anyway - with the vet telling me not to do that because she'd bite me. She never did! Though if any vet has to take her away from me for a blood test etc, all I can hear is her screaming because she can't see me My new vet isn't worried by all her noise at all but they prefer to do blood testing by taking her away from me which is stressful for me and Rosa. Last time I took her there, the day she was diagnosed, I asked them if I could go back with her and hold her for them - they said I couldn't and it wasn't necessary, but then they found they couldn't get enough blood from her for a full BW so I think I'll have to insist that they can't take her out of my sight in future!

Her twin gets just as stressed at the vet, but she just makes herself as small and still as she can in the hope they can't see her. My old vet found that much easier to deal with of course!!

 

[Critter Mom]

thank goodness you guys are here. I will keep a closer eye on it.

it is 3 am here. up with bella. Both kitties went to the vet and Bella was prescribed 0.25 to 0.5 of a 5 mg diazepam tablet 2-3 times a day to get her to eat and to see if she gets better from whatever it is she has. I gave her half a tablet and soon after she was stumbling about the house. Apparently a little sensitive to the meds. looks like she is ready gor a sleep now do maybe I can get a few hours in too before getting up to give sasha his insulin. I am not a morning person at the best of times

Strewth! That's a lot of diazepam for a tiny body!! I'm not surprised that Bella is groggy.

I have the misfortune to be in the highly protracted process of withdrawing from benzos after long-term use (under doctors' supervision - I have PTSD and other related anxiety issues) . I do wonder how they work to stimulate appetite in cats: I've found them to be highly suppressant of appetite (but I suppose our metabolisms are very different).

BTW, the maximum dose of diazepam I was ever prescribed was 5mg TID (15mg/day) and that's when I was in extraordinarily stressful circumstances and my nerves were in absolute shreds, plus my weight was about 100 lbs. Up to 7.5mg/day for a cat (who weighs a great deal less than a human) seems an awful lot. Have any other members got experience of giving their cats diazepam? If so, could you share some of your experience, please?

If the diazepam doesn't work, maybe ask your vet about cyproheptadine. It's an antihistamine so it does cause some drowsiness, but usually only a tiny dose is needed to stimulate appetite with minimal drowsiness (e.g. 1/8 4g tablet for a 10lb cat in Saoirse's case), although it can increase drowsy side-effects if other meds like bupe are being administered at the same time.

I was never a morning person either.

 

[jmalasiuk]

Tonka also hated having me touch his paws. But he was so sick when I started testing him, that he let me. And by the time he had the energy to fight back, he had gotten used to it and learned to associate it all with treats and cuddles, so there's almost never an issue (every now and then he decides that he simply does not want to co-operate, but even then I can usually convince him to stop squirming long enough to get the blood sample from him).

 

[bsmith]

thank goodness you guys are here. I will keep a closer eye on it.

it is 3 am here. up with bella. Both kitties went to the vet and Bella was prescribed 0.25 to 0.5 of a 5 mg diazepam tablet 2-3 times a day to get her to eat and to see if she gets better from whatever it is she has. I gave her half a tablet and soon after she was stumbling about the house. Apparently a little sensitive to the meds. looks like she is ready gor a sleep now do maybe I can get a few hours in too before getting up to give sasha his insulin. I am not a morning person at the best of times

Starting diazepam can knock anyone for a loop. (5 mg for a grown human is often enough to make them loopy.) I guess you'll be trying 0.25 pill next time . Although maybe 0.5 a pill for Bella before the vet so she won't scare them so much. Though @Critter Mom makes a good point about the dosage. Maybe double check elsewhere about that dosage.

I'm with both you, @manxcat419, and @Critter Mom on the not being a morning person. I'm dumb (and nauseous) in the mornings. No thank you, I'll stick to my night owl routine. As they say "early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."

Rosa had always been one of those cats who'd pull her paw away if you tried to touch it. I have no idea why she allows me to test her paws, but she does - I do wonder if they know we're trying to help them feel better. Sasha sounds like such a sweetheart to let you take tests when he doesn't like his paws being touched.

My old vet was terrified of Rosa - she gets very severe vet stress and starts growling and hissing the minute she gets into the vet's office. She's all noise, and I knew that, so I'd just stick a hand in her carrier and pull her out anyway - with the vet telling me not to do that because she'd bite me. She never did! Though if any vet has to take her away from me for a blood test etc, all I can hear is her screaming because she can't see me My new vet isn't worried by all her noise at all but they prefer to do blood testing by taking her away from me which is stressful for me and Rosa. Last time I took her there, the day she was diagnosed, I asked them if I could go back with her and hold her for them - they said I couldn't and it wasn't necessary, but then they found they couldn't get enough blood from her for a full BW so I think I'll have to insist that they can't take her out of my sight in future!

I've never tried testing Edwin's paws since he's not real big on me touching his paws, though he doesn't hate it. After reading your message, maybe I'll see if that is something that he might tolerate to give his ears a break. I'm unsure about using the lancet device though as Edwin is very sensitive to noise and I don't know if the "click" will freak him out or not. I've always just ear tested and hand held the lancet.

I've held every cat I've ever had at every vet I've ever been to. I just wedge myself in there and make it real clear that I'm going to be the one holding the cat. You can help, but my cat knows me, knows that I only do unpleasant things to help them, and isn't going to bite me. Plus, I think it's helpful for the cat to have someone they know and trust right there petting and reassuring them.

That said, I usually allow them to take the cat in the back room for tests without me and I don't hear any real unpleasant noises (thank goodness for vet techs who often have a really good touch with animals). However, if you really insist upon it they'll generally let you go in the back room with your cat. You might get a reputation as a pushy client, but then again how much do you really care what your vet personally thinks of you? Your cat can't advocate for herself so you're the one who has to do it. Being calmly insistent is very effective as I'm sure you already know.

 

[manxcat419]

I'd give it a try - he might surprise you and it does give their ears a break You should be able to do paw testing without the lancet device if you're not using it anyway - I just find it really difficult to get a test at all without using the device!

My old vet, in the UK, was very good for letting me hold the cats while they worked - especially with Rosa, I think their theory was that if I wanted to hold her that was fine with them because they were very nervous of her. The new vet is just going to have to get used to it though - I'm not prepared to sit in the waiting area and listen to Rosa scream because they've taken her away from me. She never holds a grudge against me, which I think is something they're worried about, but no matter what I have to do or how much she might hate it at the time, she always comes back for cuddles just minutes later.

And I agree - I pay the vet for a service, I don't really care whether they think I'm pushy or not. They're already not all that impressed with me because I took control of Rosa's diabetes and did things they hadn't asked me to do, didn't want me to do and don't recommend. I don't much care about that and I care just as little about whether they think I'm pushy or over-protective because I won't let them take her away from me! Rosa does her very best to advocate for herself with all the noise she makes but clearly I'm going to have to intervene because they're not listening to her opinion!!

 

[Critter Mom]

I think it's helpful for the cat to have someone they know and trust right there petting and reassuring them.

I do, too. Saoirse went in for a dental last week and it didn't happen because she freaked out after I left her in the hospital section at the vets. Saoirse is, by nature, a very pacific being. She tends to grumble, not growl, on the odd occasion when something doesn't suit her. I was a bit taken aback at how unsettled she was that morning. She was really scared when I went in to the kennel area to collect her; growling and hissing big time - highly out of character. She's getting her pre-op checks done on a separate visit next time round so that I can be there to calm and reassure her.

I want to ask the vet if I can stay as near as possible to her until she's ready for the dental the next day they book her in. I hope they'll let me stay for a while (even though the prospect of that freaks me out. I'm agoraphobic but the surgery is very quiet and the staff are very kind and understanding of my difficulties, so it's not quite as terrifying as the rest of the big, bad, outside world.)

 

[manxcat419]

Oh no - poor Saoirse. I hope things go better for her next time around.

The time Rosa had to have anesthesia at my old vet, they took us into one of the treatment rooms, gave her her pre-op sedative and let me sit with her until she was just about asleep. Then I carried her through to the pre-surgery area and settled her for them. I have to say, that vet, although scared of Rosa and not sure how to deal with her in general, was very good with things like that - I was in an area that was really meant to be staff only that day. And when I picked her up, they let me go through to the kennels and get her out of her kennel and into her carrier myself - again, something that they didn't usually allow. But as Saoirse was so upset, it might be worth asking them if you can do that with her too.

I'm glad to hear your vet is understanding of your difficulties - it must make it so much harder when you're struggling yourself as well as with keeping Saoirse calm. It does sound as though they're doing their best to make it as easy as they can for you.

 

[Critter Mom]

Our vets are lovely and so are all of the supporting staff. I have terrible trouble with pressured speech due to the PTSD. I feel very awkward and embarrassed about it, but they're wonderfully patient and understanding about it. They also know just how very much Saoirse means to me.

One thing I really like about our vets is that they've never taken Saoirse 'out back' for anything: I'm always there with her when they give injections or take blood samples. It's also their policy to allow caregivers to settle their animals into their kennels before any procedures. There's a genuine feeling of caring for all their patients. I've not always been that lucky with other veterinary practices. I'm very glad we have such caring vets now. I wish I had brought Danú to them. I might not have lost her ...

Thank you for telling me about how you managed Rosa's visits. It has given me some ideas to ask our vets about. We're seeing our main vet next week for the pre-procedure checks. I'll ask him about some of the things that worked for yourself and Rosa. (I think Saoirse spooked them a little the other day! )

 

[bsmith]

The new vet is just going to have to get used to it though - I'm not prepared to sit in the waiting area and listen to Rosa scream because they've taken her away from me. She never holds a grudge against me, which I think is something they're worried about, but no matter what I have to do or how much she might hate it at the time, she always comes back for cuddles just minutes later.

And I agree - I pay the vet for a service, I don't really care whether they think I'm pushy or not. They're already not all that impressed with me because I took control of Rosa's diabetes and did things they hadn't asked me to do, didn't want me to do and don't recommend. I don't much care about that and I care just as little about whether they think I'm pushy or over-protective because I won't let them take her away from me! Rosa does her very best to advocate for herself with all the noise she makes but clearly I'm going to have to intervene because they're not listening to her opinion!!

Sometimes it just takes a while to break a new vet in. Though Rosa's vocalness is probably helpful in getting them to see it your way . I think the reason that many U.S. vets have issues about non staff going into the back rooms or surgery areas is that they're concerned about legal liability issues. If they try to pull that issue on you (I've never actually had a vet do this, nice but firm goes a long way), just tell them that you're willing to sign a liability waiver and offer to write one out if they don't have one. It basically just has to say that you recognize that there may be hazardous things back there, but you promise not to touch anything and if you get hurt it's your problem and you won't sue them.

I did have the vet try to play the "we don't want you to be seen as the bad guy" card with me a couple of months ago when I wanted to hold Edwin when he was particularly upset because of pain (that was a bad day, I've never seen him act that upset at the vet.) Well, when I go home and have to give him his meds, I'm going to have to be the bad guy then. Plus, he's also very forgiving. Most cats seem to be forgiving as I believe that they generally recognize when you're trying to help them, even if they don't like it. (Except for that too hot kernel of corn that I gave Edwin 15 years ago. That, apparently, is a transgression for which I will never be forgiven.)

I want to ask the vet if I can stay as near as possible to her until she's ready for the dental the next day they book her in. I hope they'll let me stay for a while (even though the prospect of that freaks me out. I'm agoraphobic but the surgery is very quiet and the staff are very kind and understanding of my difficulties, so it's not quite as terrifying as the rest of the big, bad, outside world.)

Go for the nice but firm approach, if needed. It helps that your vets already know Saoirse and you and seem to really care about the comfort of both of you. It sounds like a nice practice. Most people who choose to work with animals tend to be pretty compassionate. (Is pressured speech where you feel the need to talk really fast to try to get everything out or where you want to speak but have trouble getting things out? Or both?)

It is very nice and quiet and calm in the surgery areas at most times (at least the times I've been back there). Check with the vet to see if early morning or towards closing time might be quieter if that is a big concern. Remember to take care of yourself too and breathe (and medicate as needed). Luckily your cat will be there to keep *you* calm . I don't have agoraphobia, but I do have some social/general anxiety issues and know at least a bit about new places being scary.

 

[manxcat419]

I think the reason that many U.S. vets have issues about non staff going into the back rooms or surgery areas is that they're concerned about legal liability issues. If they try to pull that issue on you (I've never actually had a vet do this, nice but firm goes a long way), just tell them that you're willing to sign a liability waiver and offer to write one out if they don't have one. It basically just has to say that you recognize that there may be hazardous things back there, but you promise not to touch anything and if you get hurt it's your problem and you won't sue them.

I hadn't even thought of that - it's pretty much a non-issue with a lot of UK vets. I'd sign whatever they need me to as long as they'll let me back there with her. I'll have to find out from them if that is the problem - I've signed liability waivers for less important things before now!

That's exactly my point with the 'bad guy' card - whatever happens at the vet, I'm going to have to continue the treatment at home so either way I'd totally be the bad guy when it came to that. But Rosa never sees it that way. I do think they realize that 'their' people wouldn't do anything to harm them so no matter how much they might dislike what you're doing right now, they somehow know you won't harm them. Of course they don't trust the vet, who they don't really know, the same way. It's odd that Edwin would hold a grudge over a hot kernel of corn - but then that's a typical cat...just fine about all the really bad stuff but awkward about something that was a genuine accident!

Aine - your vet sounds really good. I hope they'll work with you and Saoirse to keep her calm for her dental. But it doesn't sound as though you'll have too much trouble persuading them that you can help them to help Saoirse especially if they were worried when she reacted so badly the last time she was there. It really helps that they don't usually take her out back for tests too - just from the difference in the way Rosa reacts when I'm there as opposed to when I'm not I know how much of a difference that makes to a nervous cat.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

I am wondering if I am having trouble getting blood from his ears because they are badly scarred...
...Anyone else have trouble with scarred ears?

Hi Fiona,
I have noticed, after testing Bertie's ears for 8 years, that the tiny area I've tested the most does now seem to have a reduced blood flow, possibly due to scarring (he's clocked up over 17,000 tests....). But the areas next to that seem to have an increased blood flow.

Most folks notice that their cat's ears seem to 'learn to bleed' when they start hometesting. That's because, in response to those miniscule injuries, the ear grows more blood vessels (angiogenesis). That can make the job of hometesting a lot easier.
I don't know if your kitty will have grown more blood vessels elsewhere on his ears as a result of the injuries he received, but maybe he has... If you shine a light behind his ear you may see where the blood vessels are, and where would be a good place to try to test...?

I'm sure you will soon find a way of testing that works for you and Sasha.

Reassuring hugs,

Eliz

 

[Critter Mom]

(Is pressured speech where you feel the need to talk really fast to try to get everything out or where you want to speak but have trouble getting things out? Or both?)

I'm very sorry to hear that you have anxiety-related problems, too. They can make the most mundane aspects of day-to-day life so difficult.

Pressured speech is an overwhelming compulsion to talk - sometimes very fast - because one feels so anxious. The more anxious one gets, the stronger becomes the compulsion and also the rate of speech. It's really awful. It's like the worst dose of verbal diarrhoea known to humankind. And in spite of the volume of words that spill out, most of the time the subjects one needs to cover get lost in the rush. I have to write out notes and questions to take with me to the vet. I have a similar problem with trying to write on the forum. Sometimes I just can't stop typing and then I can't edit myself (and I get quite panicky while it's happening). It's so different to how I used to behave and function, and it both frustrates and saddens me.

Thank you for the pointers about how to get the best for Saoirse. I didn't stand up to a vet a few years ago and I lost my beautiful healer puss, Danú, to hepatic lipidosis. It's more than four years since I lost her, but the memory of her sitting in the hospital day after day without them doing anything much to get food into her still haunts me, and always will. All they did for the first few days was to give her IV fluids, mirtazapine, and a bit of coaxing because they "didn't want to stress her out". I wanted to force feed her. She was only seven and she had no underlying health conditions. She needed them to "be the bad guys" but they weren't. If they had given me the chance I'd have been the baddest critter mom on the planet in order to get food into my beloved girl. She was an angel on paws, and I miss her so much. Losing Danú like that is what taught me to I needed to fight for Saoirse. I'm very glad we are with such kindly, collaborative vets now. I really hope that they will let me hang around to comfort Saoirse next time we attempt the dental. She really needs it.

 

[bsmith]

I'm very sorry to hear that you have anxiety-related problems, too. They can make the most mundane aspects of day-to-day life so difficult.

Pressured speech is an overwhelming compulsion to talk - sometimes very fast - because one feels so anxious. The more anxious one gets, the stronger becomes the compulsion and also the rate of speech. It's really awful. It's like the worst dose of verbal diarrhoea known to humankind. And in spite of the volume of words that spill out, most of the time the subjects one needs to cover get lost in the rush. I have to write out notes and questions to take with me to the vet. I have a similar problem with trying to write on the forum. Sometimes I just can't stop typing and then I can't edit myself (and I get quite panicky while it's happening). It's so different to how I used to behave and function, and it both frustrates and saddens me.

Thank you for the pointers about how to get the best for Saoirse. I didn't stand up to a vet a few years ago and I lost my beautiful healer puss, Danú, to hepatic lipidosis. It's more than four years since I lost her, but the memory of her sitting in the hospital day after day without them doing anything much to get food into her still haunts me, and always will. All they did for the first few days was to give her IV fluids, mirtazapine, and a bit of coaxing because they "didn't want to stress her out". I wanted to force feed her. She was only seven and she had no underlying health conditions. She needed them to "be the bad guys" but they weren't. If they had given me the chance I'd have been the baddest critter mom on the planet in order to get food into my beloved girl. She was an angel on paws, and I miss her so much. Losing Danú like that is what taught me to I needed to fight for Saoirse. I'm very glad we are with such kindly, collaborative vets now. I really hope that they will let me hang around to comfort Saoirse next time we attempt the dental. She really needs it.

Ahhh, pressured speech, so there's a name for that. I have that same issue whe I get really anxious. Here let me tell you everything very fast so I can make sure to get everything out (but then let me get sidetracked and use ellipsis, lots of ellipsis, to add in all the additional thoughts because I love ellipsis.) I have to do a fair amount of editing here too, but I'm afraid the ellipsis are here to stay.

Interestingly, I only seem to have this issue when talking to one or a few people. With public speaking I'm perfectly fine. Maybe a bit fast at times, but much more controlled. For most people I assume that it would be the other way around.

I have to write out notes to take to vets and doctors too, just to make sure I stay on track and cover everything. I hope it helps at least a little bit to know that you're not the only one who has this issue. Also, I now have an actual term to go along with that behavior. I like to know the proper terms for things.

I'm so sorry that you lost Danú, but at least that has given you the courage and knowledge to speak up for Saoirse. Losing an otherwise healthy cat at such a young age is really difficult. I know losing Edwin's sister, Irene, at four to FIP really did a number on me (and Edwin too).

I hope your dental appointment goes well.